Author Topic: Should I expect a higher top speed?  (Read 9155 times)

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Offline Klark Kent

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Re: Should I expect a higher top speed?
« Reply #50 on: February 02, 2007, 11:29:48 AM »
Alright, so for a new question now...  Since I have an '82 SC engine in an '82 standard frame, it calls for different chain length/sprocket size specifications.

82 Standard:  17/39 sprockets, 104 link chain
82 SC:  17/38 sprockets, 106 link chain

Opinions on what I should get here?

The swingarm is the reason the chain was longer for the SC, so if yuo have an SC swingarm get the longer chain, you will probably end up getting a 120 anyway so you will be able to try both lengths.  if you are running a standard transmission i would get the 39 tooth rear, but that could be BS, and it might not make too much of a difference anyway.  which one can you find more easily? 
-KK
-KK

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76 Moto Guzzi 850T-3FB LAPD- sold
95 KLR650
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download the shop manual:
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Offline DammitDan

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Re: Should I expect a higher top speed?
« Reply #51 on: February 02, 2007, 11:38:16 AM »
I can hit redline in any other gear easily and still have it want to pull out from under me.  And the speedo is connected directly to the front wheel, so I doubt it knows what the engine is doing.  Unless the speedo drive gear and the tach have been conspiring against me...  Hmmm...  With this bike, anything is possible!  ;D

It does have the original wires and coils, and recently the wires have gotten, ahem, "dirty" from a little oil leak that I fixed ;D  Good plugs, though.

And I'm running an SC transmission (since I have an SC engine).  I figured the chain length probably had something to do with the swingarm.  And no, I won't have trouble finding either.
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Offline Klark Kent

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Re: Should I expect a higher top speed?
« Reply #52 on: February 02, 2007, 12:25:23 PM »
yeah imeant the opposite.  smixed up the which was witch on that sc/standard hybrid of yours.   standard swingarm = shorter (marginally) chain.  i dont thnk one sprocket in the rear will make a hell of a lot of difference either way though so i will stick by that one.
-KK
-KK

75 CB550k
76 Moto Guzzi 850T-3FB LAPD- sold
95 KLR650
www.blindpilotmovie.com

download the shop manual:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=17788.0
you'll feel better.

listen to your spark plugs:
http://www.4secondsflat.com/Spark_plug_reading.html

Offline cb650

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Re: Should I expect a higher top speed?
« Reply #53 on: February 02, 2007, 01:34:22 PM »
Dont think the tranny ratios are diff but something to consider with the sprockets is the SC(nitehawk) had a 16" and your standard has a 17''.



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Offline DammitDan

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Re: Should I expect a higher top speed?
« Reply #54 on: February 02, 2007, 02:10:54 PM »
Actually the tranny ratios are different between 79-81 vs 82, but only slightly in 82 between standard/C vs SC.

           79        80         81      82
1st     2.500     2.500   2.500   2.692
2nd    1.722    1.722    1.722    1.778
3rd    1.333    1.333    1.333    1.333
4th    1.074    1.074    1.074    1.042
5th    0.885    0.885    0.885    0.885

Final Reduction: C=Custom, SC=Nighthawk     

     79                                80                                                      81                                                       82
2.500 (16/40)     2.500 (16/40), C=2.438 (16/39)     2.500 (16/40), C=2.438 (16/39)     2.294 (17/39), SC=2.235 (17/38)

But in 5th gear the ratios are exactly the same, and that's where I'm falling off the map.
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Ibsen

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Re: Should I expect a higher top speed?
« Reply #55 on: February 02, 2007, 03:22:57 PM »
Hold on, it isn't that complicated.

Look at the sprockets. That's where the final gearing ratio are calculated. The lower the ratio, the higher the bike is geared.

2.500 (16/40)     2.500 (16/40), C=2.438 (16/39)     2.500 (16/40), C=2.438 (16/39)     2.294 (17/39), SC=2.235 (17/38)

For the 82 SC the gearing ratio in the transmission is slightly different for some of the gears, and the difference is at it most for 1st gear. I suspect the lower gearing (higher ratio) in 1st gear was done to compensate for the lower final gearing ratio (higher overall gearing). If you change the final ratio from 2.500 to 2.235 without changing the ratio for 1st gear the engine will be very weak, and you will have a problem at take off from stand still. I changed the final ratio on my Kawasaki from 3.000 to 2.812, and the power loss at take off was noticeable.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2007, 12:58:54 AM by Ibsen »

Offline DammitDan

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Re: Should I expect a higher top speed?
« Reply #56 on: February 09, 2007, 08:40:16 AM »
Alright, I apologize.

I was just babying my machine I guess  ;D

4th gear gets up close to 95 mph just as suggested at redline.  And it wanted to go faster after I made it over that "hump" in 5th gear.  Right up until I ran outta gas  :o

I got worried cause I felt a major loss of power running at 8k...  I thought I had blown something, so I slowed her down, and she starts cutting out.  I pulled off quick and the bike died as soon as I stopped.  Stupid me forgot to turn it onto reserve when the bike started bogging.  I'm assuming I get horrible MPG at 8k RPM, huh?  ;)

Unfortunately I cranked it too much before realizing my bowls were bone dry (and since I have CV carbs, the bowls only fill when the vacuum valve opens).  My battery started dying on the side of the road :-X  And people wonder why I want a kickstarter!

Anyways, took off the vacuum line and applied some "manual vacuum" for a minute to get fuel in the bowls, and thank God the bike turned right over.  Ran like a champ after that  ;D

I guess I just need to downshift more.  And i learned these bikes LIKE to get run into the ground at 8k or 9k RPM!
« Last Edit: February 09, 2007, 08:41:49 AM by DammitDan »
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Offline Klark Kent

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Re: Should I expect a higher top speed?
« Reply #57 on: February 09, 2007, 08:54:27 AM »
do you know if your charging system is any better than the 70's era cbs or if there are any improvements that came long with the removal  the kickstart?
-KK
-KK

75 CB550k
76 Moto Guzzi 850T-3FB LAPD- sold
95 KLR650
www.blindpilotmovie.com

download the shop manual:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=17788.0
you'll feel better.

listen to your spark plugs:
http://www.4secondsflat.com/Spark_plug_reading.html

Offline gerhed

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Re: Should I expect a higher top speed?
« Reply #58 on: February 09, 2007, 09:07:13 AM »
Warning:

When you first put on the new chain make sure you adjust it with someone sitting on the bike.
If you tighten it with no one on the bike it will get very tight when you sit on it and
could break while you're riding and go through the engine case. I don't know anyone dumb enough to do something like that , though !!
Rides: 75 CB750F, 48 Indian Chief, 67 Triumph TR6, 63Honda CA95
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Offline Pinhead

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Re: Should I expect a higher top speed?
« Reply #59 on: February 09, 2007, 09:16:03 AM »
Warning:

When you first put on the new chain make sure you adjust it with someone sitting on the bike.
If you tighten it with no one on the bike it will get very tight when you sit on it and
could break while you're riding and go through the engine case. I don't know anyone dumb enough to do something like that , though !!

Are you serious? I've never heard of that........

do you know if your charging system is any better than the 70's era cbs or if there are any improvements that came long with the removal  the kickstart?
-KK

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Offline DammitDan

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Re: Should I expect a higher top speed?
« Reply #60 on: February 09, 2007, 09:27:32 AM »
I think I just need to put the battery on a trickle charger...  Either that or buy a new battery (the one I've got is about 2 years old now)
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Offline gerhed

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Re: Should I expect a higher top speed?
« Reply #61 on: February 09, 2007, 02:11:07 PM »
To Pinhead:

Yes I actually know someone who did that.
I was later told that the area around the drive sprocket on the CB750 is thin
and any chain problem can be disastrous.
Rides: 75 CB750F, 48 Indian Chief, 67 Triumph TR6, 63Honda CA95
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Offline Pinhead

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Re: Should I expect a higher top speed?
« Reply #62 on: February 09, 2007, 02:35:30 PM »
To Pinhead:

Yes I actually know someone who did that.
I was later told that the area around the drive sprocket on the CB750 is thin
and any chain problem can be disastrous.

I honestly didn't know that you had to have weight on the bike to replace/adjust your chain. I suppose it depends on the position of your front sprocket in relation to the swingarm pivot point. I thought that it'd be tighter when there's no weight on the bike...
Doug

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Offline Hockers Choppers

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Re: Should I expect a higher top speed?
« Reply #63 on: February 09, 2007, 03:06:08 PM »
Your right pinhead, it just depends on the center lines of the sprockets and the pivot point. If your bike is lowered, the chain gets looser. I've never heard of a chain breaking though. At least not a good chain. Don't buy a cheap chain for your bike, I bought a $30 chain once and it lasted about 100 miles and was trashed. I abused it pretty hard!!!! 8) I have an xchain now but haven't got to TEST it yet!!!
The thing about common sense is that, it's not that common.

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Offline Orcinus

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Re: Should I expect a higher top speed?
« Reply #64 on: February 09, 2007, 05:18:25 PM »
I've never heard of a chain breaking though.

My understanding is that breaking chains was the number one cause of death of the early CB750's.  Back in the 70's the 530 chains would actually snap and bunch up around the front sprocket punching a hole in the case.  I've got a coworker who lost his sandcast that way.  That's why the F2/F3 went to a 630 chain.  Of course, modern 530 chains are even stronger than the late 70's 630 chains, so it's now a non-issue.
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Offline Hockers Choppers

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Re: Should I expect a higher top speed?
« Reply #65 on: February 09, 2007, 06:59:54 PM »
I'd say the #1 cause of death would be the lack of brakes!! I've never heard of a chain killing anyone.
The thing about common sense is that, it's not that common.

1978 CB750F SUPERSPORT 850cc, cam, porting, dyna ign, cr29's lotsa elbow grease and $$'s. Worth ever penny!!  (S0ld)

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Offline mlinder

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Re: Should I expect a higher top speed?
« Reply #66 on: February 09, 2007, 07:39:05 PM »
I'd say the #1 cause of death would be the lack of brakes!! I've never heard of a chain killing anyone.
He said deaths of the cb750s, not the riders :)
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Offline Hockers Choppers

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Re: Should I expect a higher top speed?
« Reply #67 on: February 10, 2007, 06:07:54 AM »
OH, I guess that would def kill the engine!! ;D
The thing about common sense is that, it's not that common.

1978 CB750F SUPERSPORT 850cc, cam, porting, dyna ign, cr29's lotsa elbow grease and $$'s. Worth ever penny!!  (S0ld)

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Offline c_kyle

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Re: Should I expect a higher top speed?
« Reply #68 on: February 11, 2007, 05:04:42 PM »
Well, I THOUGHT you could....  Any other CB650 guys run o-ring chains?

Has this been answered yet?
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Offline Pinhead

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Re: Should I expect a higher top speed?
« Reply #69 on: February 11, 2007, 05:49:12 PM »
I don't know for sure, but I do know that they're listed as working for the CB650 at my local Honda dealer.
Doug

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Offline DammitDan

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Re: Should I expect a higher top speed?
« Reply #70 on: February 11, 2007, 08:53:17 PM »
You can put 530 oring chains on a 650?  Can't do that on the 550.  Grinds the cases.

Cheers,

The 650 have got 530 oring chain as standard.

Ibsen done explained it fer us real perty like  ;D
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Offline DRam

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Re: Should I expect a higher top speed?
« Reply #71 on: February 12, 2007, 01:02:15 AM »
After a long absence I return and find another interesting thread.  Dammit, I went your route with my '79 CB650 - up one in front, down two in back.  I don't recall gaining fuel economy, but do recall having to shift into fourth on hills and into headwinds.  The carbs were adjusted, synched, fiddled with, valves set, eventually the engine rebuilt.  It wasn't until I returned to stock gearing that the old girl came to life again.  My changes had dropped the engine out of it's torque peak at highway speeds.  Now it'll hit the ton without much trouble, the clutch doesn't have to be slipped off the line, and driveability around town is much better.  Of the other hints given in this thread the one about making sure your battery is good is . . . ummm. . . good.  A time or two I've been caught out with mysterious engine problems - missing, sometimes backfiring, won't run beyone 5K rpm, etc.  It all clears up with a fresh battery.  Every few years it seems a new one is needed.  They'd most likely last longer with a little more maintainence, but I'm a slob that way.  As for o-ring chains, there's one on my bike.  I did have to use a Dremel tool on a couple bosses on the cover plate.  It cleared the engine cases just fine. 

Dang.  Writing this is making it hard not to go ride.  But it's two AM, 15 degrees F, and snowing.  Guess I'll just go to bed until spring.