Author Topic: Project Learning Curve  (Read 6355 times)

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Offline mbryan

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Project Learning Curve
« on: May 06, 2020, 08:44:25 AM »
So I did introductions in the new member area......

Project Learning Curve:  New to me bike that my 15 yr old and I can work on together.  Learning curve because I have never owned a bike, don't know a whole lot about this one, and am not a master mechanic!

-1978 CB550K, has little over 17K miles on it, looks good from a blemish stand point, few things electrical missing
-Guy said it ran in February of this year
-Goals are to get it running, then get all components in good shape, then will see if we start modifying form stock to make it what we want.

I will try to add pics.....as soon as I figure out how. I have them in dropbox....as photobucket is giving me fits for some reason.

So first couple of questions.
1.  The model number of my carbs is PD 46CAPJt (or some combo of a j and t at the end and the A has a square around it).  I need a rebuild kit and was gonna get this one...

https://4into1.com/carburetor-gasket-o-ring-float-needle-kit-set-of-4-honda-cb550k-1977-1978-cb750a/

Going to take apart and clean with spray and air as best I can and put back together with this kit....just dont know if it will fit my carb as the model number does not show but the site it says it fits the year.   Anyway......is this the correct one?

2.  This is the only site that I have found so far that has a bunch of parts for the bike (4into1)  any other suggestions?  Called the local dealer and they dont have much at all.

If we get it all back together and it runs....the next think on the list is to take care of an oil leak.  I think it is coming from the head but I can tell for sure until I get it cleaned up, put back together, and get it running to see where.  Will see!!!

Thanks for any help!




Offline rb550four

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Re: Project Learning Curve
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2020, 09:37:23 AM »
  Welcome. There are allot of places to find new 550 parts on the web, there is a ton of new and used parts on Ebay motors motorcycle parts  by year, make and model.
   A shop manual should be top of the list.
A complete set of engine gaskets will be in order for that leaky head , the 2 O rings and a head gasket and all top end stuff (except the pucks are sold separately) and they do come with the jug base gasket. Think you won't need the lower end gaskets? You'll need them too when you go through the clutch and find that it doesn't come out in one piece, and the points covergasket  is usually messed up from people putting them on wrong...so it's around a hundred and some change for that, well worth it. I started out using Honda gaskets and found that they get pricey one at a time and it usually turns into a waiting game for separate parts.
   What ever electrical parts ,are available in after market if not in honda stock any longer. has the harness been butchered? Amazon has aftermarket harness for just less than $100 and aftermarket anything else you could want to get it going.
    Shop manual  for the second time, it's that important that you have the information you may need. It's here on line but I like the book version at the scene so I can grab it when I need it .
    This place is full of great people , generous with knowledge, friendly, and want to see you succeed with your project . post your build , take plenty of pictures and ask questions , show progress ( pics, like them lots) and notice that there is a search button for questions that can be answered without feeling embarrassed  but guys would help you and not make you feel embarrassed anyways.
 The 550 is a nice machine , easy to work on , since it's your first one that you are helping a 15 year old with it should always be FUN and a learning thing that brings you both closer, and did I say FUN .....that is the key .  Lot's of pics please so we can see your progress.

 
A few Honda 500's, a few Honda 550's, a few Honda 650's, '72 cb 450, a couple 500/550/650 hybrids, and 2001 750. 
  550 Snowbike -Somebody had to do it.
  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,101678.0.html             
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,137317.msg1550907.html#msg1550907

Offline flatlander

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Re: Project Learning Curve
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2020, 09:48:24 AM »
for the carbs:
clean them out thoroughly. you don't need to separate them from the rack for that, just take off the bowls to get to the jets. and, if you must, you can access the needles and slides through the top but that may not even be necessary.
replace any o-rings that are gone, but keep the original brass parts and re-use them after cleaning. they don't wear unless they are botched up by a PO and if you replace them with aftermarket stuff, the sizes are different and you end up with tuning troubles. that includes the float needle that's part of the kit you link to. use the existing one for now.
look up the "clear tube method" by searching this site. after reassembling everything, do that and if your fuel level is good and nothing leaks, you're fine. if something is off, report back here and we can help you through.

Offline MauiK3

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Re: Project Learning Curve
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2020, 10:02:36 AM »
David Silver Spares has parts for you
1973 CB 750 K3
10/72 build Z1 Kawasaki

Offline mbryan

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Re: Project Learning Curve
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2020, 10:16:07 AM »
Thanks for the info.....will get a kit and some screwdrivers that fit and will be on our way!


Offline mbryan

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Re: Project Learning Curve
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2020, 01:27:49 PM »
Another question.......

Have not touched anything on the bike except taking the carbs off in preparation for cleaning.  So while I am waiting for parts I wanted to go through other tune up items. 

So what order of operation is recommended for general checks and tune up?

Do I tighten cam chain first, or check timing first (or second), or do I check valve gaps first?

Is there a recommended tune up list and the proper order of checking things to not screw up the previously checked or changed item?


Offline flatlander

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Re: Project Learning Curve
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2020, 02:03:21 PM »
as the very first thing, get a copy of the honda workshop manual. you can download it from the documents section of this forum.
ot describes the regular maintenance procedures. with a bike that's new to you, it usually makes sense to do all items listed under the 3k miles maintenance interval.

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: Project Learning Curve
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2020, 03:05:34 PM »
Stay away from Daichi points and condensors. They are junk!
Buy a good set of TEC points and condensors from Honda dealership. South Sound Honda in Olympia WA has very good price for parts if you do not have a local dealer or have an order large enough to offset shipping, unless you mark shipping as cost of getting parts and ignore it...
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline mbryan

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Re: Project Learning Curve
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2020, 06:47:20 PM »
Thanks for the tips.

We ran into an issue in changing the spark plugs on cylinder 2. We thought we bought a thin-walled 18mm deep socket from O'Rylies.............however, it won't engage the spark plug due to the angle of the spark plug in the cylinder. Are we missing something or did we not get the right tool?

On a side-note we tightened the cam chain tentioner with no issues and went to check clearances on valves but feeler gauges had rust all over and didn't want to use them due to that.

We will move on to checking timing once we are done checking valve clearances.

Photobucket is still giving me issues I will try to sort that out tonight.

Offline mbryan

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Re: Project Learning Curve
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2020, 08:02:26 PM »
Ok.....will try to upload something.....first is when we got it......second is the carb model number......and last is how it is now.

[https://www.dropbox.com/s/nwzd6q824cllnp0/20200503_224639.jpg?dl=0]

[https://www.dropbox.com/s/o0rzc0m2ow29uik/20200506_091552.jpg?dl=0]

[https://www.dropbox.com/s/ekktc7nfk9e9p75/20200506_091612.jpg?dl=0]

Offline dkihlgren

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Re: Project Learning Curve
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2020, 10:33:59 PM »
David Silver Spares has parts for you
David silver is excellent. Usually good prices and a lot of NOS parts.

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Offline flatlander

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Re: Project Learning Curve
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2020, 11:17:45 PM »
looks like your front fender is missing?
it has a fork brace integrated. without it, the fork will be wobbly.

Offline mbryan

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Re: Project Learning Curve
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2020, 05:15:00 AM »
Yup no front fender.  My plan is to get one and make a shorter version of the original.

Another note.....the replacement spark plugs we got from O'Ryleys is a 5/8" plug not an 18mm.  They are Champion 810 / RA8HC plugs.  When I gave them the year, make, and model they had these so that is what I got.....is this correct?  What came out was NGK D7EA.  Did I make a mistake?

Offline mbryan

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Re: Project Learning Curve
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2020, 08:08:11 AM »
After thinking about it and really not sure if I was doing the right thing......I found the same replacement plugs and will install them (the local shop finally was open).  I also got a tool from them as well......we will see if it works!!

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: Project Learning Curve
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2020, 04:38:25 PM »
Would return the champions and buy either ngk or denso
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline mbryan

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Re: Project Learning Curve
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2020, 05:19:24 AM »
So had time to do a few things while waiting for parts and tools.

1.  Returned the champions and got the same spark plugs and a special tool from the dealership.  I still had to grind down the tool for it to fully seat the plug but it worked.  When installing the plug on cylinder 2 we noticed it did not feel right at all.  After messing around a bit le found out that the plug was not seating in the head at all.  At first I thought I cross threadded them but it looks like someone installed it wrong.....that is so say the PO installed it and did not seat it.  So when we went to put a new one in the threads were filled with lots of carbon and gunk.  So after running the plug in and out about a 1000 times with lube and going slow we got it to seat correctly and everything looks and feels ok.

2.  The carbs are off and we started to play around with them to see how they work.  Again these are the PD42A I mentioned above.  While doing some looking i came across a thread here that linked us to motorcycleproject.com and there was a video of how to install a choke spring......well we watched it and then looked at our set up and sure enough the thing was loose and on wrong so half the carbs would work and the other would not.......fixed that!!!  So not only did we fix something but my son learned the value of research before you touch something you do not understand.  We started to empty the bowels and go to drain all but one.....the drain screw is stuck!!!  We will try to put some PB blaster on it today to see if we can get it to move.  If we cant then I will punt and come back here for advice.

Lastly....and this is just a wish.  I was wondering if the source of the oil leak is coming from either the loose plug and it is not oil but just carbon and gunk coming from that cylinder.  OR....there is a bolt on the head between the 2 and 3 cylinder exhaust pipes that was loose.  I was just checking things out and decided to put a 10mm wrench on it and it was pretty loose.  I wonder if that is the source.....if so it would save a top end rebuild I guess.

Anyway.....thanks for all the help!


Offline calj737

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Re: Project Learning Curve
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2020, 05:45:05 AM »
PB Blaster probably won’t work well. Drain screw is brass, bowl is a.uminum.  Apply some heat with a propane torch to the bowl. Then use a small mallet and driver, tap the screw straight in to jog the threads loose. Use the correct size driver and you should be fine.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline mbryan

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Re: Project Learning Curve
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2020, 08:31:25 AM »
ok....will use a heat gun to see if that works.

another question.....what parts of the carb/bike are acceptable to use something like never-seaze or other products like that......so I wont have to deal with sticking screws in the future.

Offline calj737

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Re: Project Learning Curve
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2020, 08:35:28 AM »
A heat gun probably won't get hot enough. Propane won't hurt a thing.

Use anti-seize for any steel bolt into aluminum, or steel bolt to steel nut where torque is not critical.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline mbryan

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Re: Project Learning Curve
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2020, 01:36:48 PM »
ok....school time if yall dont mind.  I am gonna try to post pics again so you can see what I am talking about.  So here is the inlet to the carb and there are two brass tubes.  As I understand one is the air inlet for the idle circuit (I think) but I dont know what the other one is.  Can you shed some light on that?




Secondly.....there are three brass inserts looking at the bottom of the carb with the bowl off.  One is removed which is the main jet and emulsion tube (I think).  The jets are 110 ...which is the number stamped on the back.  One of the inserts has a 20 stamped on it with another strange symbol.....and I assume that is the slow jet?  I do not know what the last brass tube is (the one right below the main jet).  There are numbers stamped on the sides of them which are very hard to read and seems all are different.



Hopefully the images come through.  So this bike had a 4 into 1 exhaust and pod filters.  Does this sound like it is jetted correctly? Also, when cleaning this....do I pull these out and if I need to....how do I do it?


Offline mbryan

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Offline mbryan

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« Last Edit: May 09, 2020, 01:59:52 PM by mbryan »

Offline mbryan

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Re: Project Learning Curve
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2020, 02:31:52 PM »
Just looked and found that the idle jets are 42.

So 110 and 42.  Does that sound correct?

Offline calj737

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Re: Project Learning Curve
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2020, 02:41:28 PM »
Those are not stock. Basically 98/100 and 38/40 mains and pilots. Depending upon exact model, territory, they could be 98-38 or you can simply run 100/40s as these tend to be easier to find.

Needle clip would be in second position from top, 4th from tip. If you are running stock airbox, leave them that way.
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Offline flatlander

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Re: Project Learning Curve
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2020, 11:55:36 PM »
pics don't work for me. needs some logging into dropbox.
i could see the previous ones that you linked, so you must have done something different?