Author Topic: Project Learning Curve (Read 6518 times)

flatlander · « **Reply #50 on:** May 17, 2020, 10:40:02 AM »

float level should be 2-3 mm under the gasket surface.
it is possible that a PO tried using it as a means to adjust for that ultra short exhaust.

the manual says 1000 for idle but usually these engines are happier around 1200.

mbryan · « **Reply #51 on:** May 17, 2020, 01:17:22 PM »

Ok 1200 will be the mark. I made sure my fuel mix screws at at 1.5 turns out as well. Doesn't like to sit and idle very happy. I will take carbs off and reset floats to match the 2 to 3 mm under gasket surface. Hopefully that will fix the idle and the popping upon quick deceleration. I was looking at the exhaust and there seems to be a restrictor to hold some back pressure....just dont know if that is good or not.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ip3q3f5uqmubksm/20200517_141502.jpg?dl=0

Also, started working on the tank. Drained it and took petcock off. Tank is rusty so I plan to put the evaporust to it, dry it very well, and por15 in it for a coating. Here it is disasembaled.......do yall think I can run an online filter outside of the tank and get rid of the long petcock filter after costing the tank?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qibz6pl1mpofs4a/20200517_135746.jpg?dl=0

mbryan · « **Reply #52 on:** May 17, 2020, 06:28:39 PM »

Tried a few things.....turned mix screws from 1/2 to 2 1/2.....and still lots of popping coming off throttle from the exhaust. I have not synced these carbs due to lack of that tool.....will try to borrow some vacuum gauges next week. .....and I will lower the floats.

How does the high level of the floats compensate for a short muffler? Still learning here!

Also i looked into the tank and i see some issues with rust and sludge....see pic. Also, i saw another pencil type filter in the gas tank. There was no flange on the petcock nipple so I missed it. Does it come out?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4caynabg7fgpi8d/20200517_200747.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6iq7jg18a7kylta/20200517_201106.jpg?dl=0

flatlander · « **Reply #53 on:** May 17, 2020, 11:03:31 PM »

the tank must be totally clean inside, so you have the right plan there

that plastic thing in the petcock nipple is a remnant of the old filter. it's plastic, and should be removed.

get a new, OEM in-tank filter as a replacement. there are different petcock and styles for the 550 so make sure you study the parts list and get the right one. it won't be as cheap as an inline filter but will last forever, and not cause any problems. inline filters can cause inconsistent fuel flow on these bikes.
the fuel lines are a slightly odd size: 5.5mm. for best function, get some of that.

i'm not saying the fuel leve in the carbs actually compensates for a short muffler. but if you change anything in the air-fuel system, it will most likely have impact on some other parts of the same system. so if you change exhaust and/or air filter, in most cases you need to adjust carburation. most aftermarket exhausts are more open than stock. as yours is very short i guess it was meant to be "sporty", meaning more open. also the length has impact on its performance.
as your fuel levels were consistently high, my guess is that someone did that consciously. they may have tried to enrichen the a/f mix to make it work for the exhaust. but that's just a guess.
i think it makes sense to set up the carbs to stock values, i.e. with the correct fuel level. then see what you get. if you want to keep the exhaust, you may need to adjust the jetting which is a more accurate way to tune them then by fuel level.

mbryan · « **Reply #54 on:** May 18, 2020, 06:05:11 AM »

Got it.......just to recap the set up that I have.....

Pod filters (uni I think? )
Slow jet is 42
Main jet is 110
And you already know about the short exhaust with the baffles inside from the pic above

I have done the 3000 mile tune up per yall's suggestion.....cam chain tension, tappet clearance, point gap set, timing checked, carbs cleaned, new plugs

Will take them off and reset floats, install, and see if I can borrow a sync set up and will report back.

Thanks

flatlander · « **Reply #55 on:** May 18, 2020, 06:19:52 AM »

right, so your jets are already pretty big. do you remember what position the needle was in?
anyway, in this case i would get the fuel level back to standard and see what happens. with pods chances are that the mix won't be totally right at all positions - you may have read the related threads on the forum of which there are many

you can get the carbs dialled in for them but it takes more time and effort - or a visit to a dyno with a handful of jets. but try first how it works with the existing setup.

mbryan · « **Reply #56 on:** May 18, 2020, 04:14:37 PM »

Ok.

And by the way.....my early post was wrong the carbs are PD46c models.

mbryan · « **Reply #57 on:** May 18, 2020, 08:52:20 PM »

Ok.....took carbs off and checked levels and reset.

Here is a pic of as found on carb 1.....
https://www.dropbox.com/s/agb6qdnpq8e3fe9/20200518_193951.jpg?dl=0

As left.....
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0bxmqfi57skvg6n/20200518_195803.jpg?dl=0

I saw this on a you tube video.....use rubber bands on carbs that are not being adjusted. So I can focus on a single carb at a time. Worked well....
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nu1kapuobjvmcm4/20200518_193954.jpg?dl=0

Sssssoooooo...... will reinstall tomorrow and see if the popping stops. I tried to see if auto parts store rents a sync set but no go. Will call honda place tomorrow and see if they will. If not I will buy one.

mbryan · « **Reply #58 on:** May 19, 2020, 06:46:14 AM »

I am going to check the needle position today before I reinstall the carbs. With this set up......

PD46C
Pod filters (uni )
Slow jet is 42
Main jet is 110
4 into 1 short exhause with internall baffels
Float levels set to 3 mm below flandge per the above pics

What is the recomended setting of the clip? Also, for the student in me.....is that position from the top of the needle or bottom?

mbryan · « **Reply #59 on:** May 19, 2020, 04:01:50 PM »

I just checked.....all clips are on the second notch from the bottom......the pointed end. I also did a bench sync with a drill bit and they were very very close......within 1/4 to 1/2 turn of the adjustment screw from the number 2 carb reference.

Should I put the clip on the last notch and try that? Again this a popping upon deceleration....at a stand still......I have not taken it out and ridden it yet.

mbryan · « **Reply #60 on:** May 19, 2020, 04:08:14 PM »

Here is the pic of the needle clip.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9azi57dx29ggd7l/20200519_170423.jpg?dl=0

flatlander · « **Reply #61 on:** May 20, 2020, 01:54:47 AM »

Quote from: mbryan on May 19, 2020, 06:46:14 AM

What is the recomended setting of the clip? Also, for the student in me.....is that position from the top of the needle or bottom?

they are counted from the top.
as to what position is right for your setup with pods and aftermarket exhaust.... that's anyone's guess. pods are notoriously difficult to tune for and you may never get it right for the whole rpm range.
maybe best to leave it as you found it, assuming the PO already set them as good as they can be. and then test. that can be a lengthy process if you do it with plug chops, or you can go to a dyno and do it there based on the A/F readings.

Quote

I tried to see if auto parts store rents a sync set but no go. Will call honda place tomorrow and see if they will. If not I will buy one.

once you have your carbs adjusted you won't really need to sync them again so borrowing or renting a gauge may make sense.
if you want to buy one, the morgan carb tune is reasonably priced and easy to use.

mbryan · « **Reply #62 on:** May 20, 2020, 06:28:53 AM »

So I put the carbs back in....I kept the same clip position. It ran more smoothly at idle and held 1200 a lot better. I guess the float height change and bench sync helped that....because that is the only change I made.

I strapped my temp tank to the bike and took it for a spin in my neighborhood.....man that short exhaust is loud. It ran well.....but still lots of popping on deceleration and coasting. I realize some of this will happen.

Do yall think going with a longer exhaust would minimize this?

flatlander · « **Reply #63 on:** May 20, 2020, 01:17:18 PM »

i can't speak for everybody else but i do think a reasonably baffled longer exhaust will be better for your ears, help you stay friends with your neighbours, as well as perform better in general use.
popping on decel might just be the nature of the beast, being barely baffled and this short.
people seem to have good experiences with delkevic that are also reasonably priced. might be worth having a look a them.

mbryan · « **Reply #64 on:** May 21, 2020, 05:12:30 AM »

Ok.....so gas tank and electrical is next.

1. Tank.....going to put hot soapy water and a short chain in it and shake for a good while. Then viniger and chain and do the same. Then fill it all up with vinegar for a few days. Then flush with water then water and baking soda. Then if clean.....dry to bone dry. Then por 15 line it and let sit for 4 to 5 days. Sound sane?

2. Electrical.....the bike needs turn signals .....because it has none. Some came in the box of parts and I will use those. So I will get a new flasher and try to figure out a place to mount them. Will be a larger project because there are currently no mounting places and will involve fender mods. Will probably do a LED break light too along the way. And a horn to make it legal.

RAFster122s · « **Reply #65 on:** May 21, 2020, 05:50:14 AM »

Buy some wood bleach, yes wood bleach, and mix it up with warm water and set it in the sun. It will clean your tank very well and you won't need to leave it for days. It is reusable as well. Get a big tub to put the tank inso you catch any that leaks if your sealing the petcock opening fails. Clean tank without the petcock...
Use gloves.

Oxalic acid is wood bleach's name. Buy 5 pounds and mix with gallon to pound ratio. Amazon and other places sell it. Wood working shops will carry it too.

Phosphoric acid rinse will convert any light rust not taken care of by oxalic acid. The oxalic acid is very mild and doesn't eat the steel like vinegar will and I think it is the ingredient they use in metal rescue.

mbryan · « **Reply #66 on:** May 21, 2020, 06:02:27 AM »

Got it....was going vinegar route due to cost but I see from your experience it is not worth the risk. I will look at the wood bleach or evaporust or metal rescue. One step I forgot.....after water rinse I was going to do an alcohol rinse to grab water.....then dry dry dry.

mbryan · « **Reply #67 on:** May 24, 2020, 04:03:21 PM »

Ok.....update.....I am waiting for some parts so we turned to looking at getting some things working to make it road legal. To start we delt with front turn signals. It did not have any on it but some LED ones came in the box o parts. So see pic for reference.....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6qd58mlrnsw4cmt/20200524_173714.jpg?dl=0

So as I understand.....the light blue with white stripe is the right....and orange with white stripe is left. The red bullet is the positive for the LED signal. And I plugged the black to the dark green ground.

I changed the flasher to an LED friendly one and tried it out. The black wire to the X and white to the L. There is another connection on the flasher that says - and I left it alone.

The middle position of the signal switch turns on both lights.....and the right and left are backwards......that is to say when the switch is on the right ....the left turns on and vice versa.....and the opposite light is off.

Also......nothing blinks no matter what. Is there something I am doing wrong or do I need to install a diode to compensate for something?

Thanks for any help.

mbryan · « **Reply #68 on:** May 24, 2020, 07:06:03 PM »

Well.....good news. I read some more and figured out the left and right thing.....same colors but no white stripe.

But....still no blinking. Will put the old flasher back in and see if that works.

onepieceatatime · « **Reply #69 on:** May 25, 2020, 04:05:43 AM »

Quote from: mbryan on May 24, 2020, 07:06:03 PM

Well.....good news. I read some more and figured out the left and right thing.....same colors but no white stripe.

But....still no blinking. Will put the old flasher back in and see if that works.

I can't look at your pictures, because dropbox is blocked at work.
Do you have rear signals installed? Did you get a flasher designed for LED signals?
You have to look at turn signals as a system, or really a left system and a right system with the switch and flasher relay as common components. You will get unexpected results if parts are missing.
Old flasher relays often stop working, either staying off or on, but not flashing.

mbryan · « **Reply #70 on:** May 25, 2020, 05:23:29 AM »

I did change the flasher but not added the rear turn lights. Will do that today. Will see if something changes. I will trace the system today more to see what is up. In my reading I saw where if you keep the indicator lights stock then this will happen. If we can't get it to work right when I add the rear I will pull the bulb on the indicator to see if it works.

Korven · « **Reply #71 on:** May 25, 2020, 05:49:17 AM »

After doing all that removing rust mumbo-jumbo would it be advicable to rinse it with gas with a little bit of oil in or just keep as until you add gas as normally?

mbryan · « **Reply #72 on:** May 25, 2020, 06:37:22 AM »

Seems as there are a few camps on that.....clean and move forward with as is......or coat it. I am gonna coat it with por 15 as that seems like the one that has the best track record in my reading. I guess it gives me a sense of security.....but it might be smoke and mirrors. Will see.

Korven · « **Reply #73 on:** May 25, 2020, 07:00:42 AM »

Quote from: mbryan on May 25, 2020, 06:37:22 AM

Seems as there are a few camps on that.....clean and move forward with as is......or coat it. I am gonna coat it with por 15 as that seems like the one that has the best track record in my reading. I guess it gives me a sense of security.....but it might be smoke and mirrors. Will see.

As long as there is gas in the tank it wont rust. If the rust wasnt so bad to begin with im guessing there is no real reason why to coat it. Im a bit sceptical to coat because of the fact that there might be more etanol in the gas further down the light or some other substitue. That is only speculation from my part and is probably when its time to restore the bike once again.

mbryan · « **Reply #74 on:** May 25, 2020, 03:17:30 PM »

Took bulbs out of my turn signals......no go. Off to rig up the rear to see if that helps.

News:

Author Topic: Project Learning Curve (Read 6518 times)