Author Topic: RC ENGINEERING BIG BLOCK LEAKING OIL  (Read 2539 times)

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Offline Cbcpastorjack

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RC ENGINEERING BIG BLOCK LEAKING OIL
« on: June 16, 2020, 05:17:34 am »
I finally finished my 1972 CB750 build.  The engine is bored to 1020cc by way of a vintage RC Engineering Big Block. After running it a bit I’ve noticed oil on the front of the block that does not seem to be coming from the head (MLS) gasket, nor from the base gasket. In fact my problem is that I cannot determine the ORIGIN of the leak. It literally looks like it may be coming THROUGH the block itself? Has anyone here ever heard of such a thing??? Better yet, has anyone ever heard of a fix? Thanks in advance. The engine runs great, it’s just leaking...

Jack

Offline andy750

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Re: RC ENGINEERING BIG BLOCK LEAKING OIL
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2020, 05:39:19 am »
I once had an 810cc engine that leaked through a hairline crack in the head...took a couple of times pulling the engine and changing gaskets/pucks to figure out that wasnt the problem! Ended up ditching the head and replacing it. I hope you have better luck. Good luck!
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Offline bear

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Re: RC ENGINEERING BIG BLOCK LEAKING OIL
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2020, 06:20:39 pm »
G'day Jack,

I have tried to use those "block's many years ago, all be it in a competition motor and they both failed.

I don't believe that they can dissipate heat efficiently enough to to be reliable with prolonged use. Others would disagree.

If it is cracked I would suggest you use it as a paperweight or donate it to George's collection.
Sorry if that sounds a bit glib, but the God's of speed are cruel God's.


Cheers,
Brian
« Last Edit: June 17, 2020, 04:30:23 pm by bear »
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Offline 754

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Re: RC ENGINEERING BIG BLOCK LEAKING OIL
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2020, 07:17:23 pm »
 It shoukd be worth trying to weld. I See heads totally smashed  up from a valve head coming off and seats floating and hammering around , being fixed fairly often on Instagram.
 Certainly wort trying to fix.....imo.



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Offline Nicklopic

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Re: RC ENGINEERING BIG BLOCK LEAKING OIL
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2020, 09:41:20 pm »
Buy a bottle of UV dye and a light kit. Add a little in the motor, run it and follow the light!
Then you can figure out some solution afterward
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Offline Cbcpastorjack

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Re: RC ENGINEERING BIG BLOCK LEAKING OIL
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2020, 03:12:13 pm »
I cleaned off ALL the oil that had leaked.  Then restarted the motor on the bench and watched.  It literally began to ooze out, not from a crack, but just right through the wall of the cylinder.  I'm guessing it is very porous in that area.  Dang... 

Offline HondaMan

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Re: RC ENGINEERING BIG BLOCK LEAKING OIL
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2020, 05:45:15 pm »
Did you install extra-thick (10.8x2.6mm) O-rings in the 2 oil passages between head and cylinders, thru the head gasket? If not, it is leaking there because ALL head gaskets made today are too thick by 0.2mm as compared to OEM. So, all O-rings in all gasket kits (for all Hondas, Kawis, Suzys, etc., not just ours) WILL leak at the cylinder-head oil passage joint. It's been the only 100% statistic I have seen in these rebuilds...the oil dribbles along the sides of the cam chain tunnel and exits at the front center of the engine, every time.

You can get these o-rings near you as Parker #01-111, or make a donation to our website's DONATIONS page and send me your address, I'll send you a pair. (It's my fundraiser for the site. :)  ) But, you will also need a new head gasket when you take the head off to install these.  :(
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Offline MRieck

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Re: RC ENGINEERING BIG BLOCK LEAKING OIL
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2020, 03:46:14 pm »
Did you install extra-thick (10.8x2.6mm) O-rings in the 2 oil passages between head and cylinders, thru the head gasket? If not, it is leaking there because ALL head gaskets made today are too thick by 0.2mm as compared to OEM. So, all O-rings in all gasket kits (for all Hondas, Kawis, Suzys, etc., not just ours) WILL leak at the cylinder-head oil passage joint. It's been the only 100% statistic I have seen in these rebuilds...the oil dribbles along the sides of the cam chain tunnel and exits at the front center of the engine, every time.

You can get these o-rings near you as Parker #01-111, or make a donation to our website's DONATIONS page and send me your address, I'll send you a pair. (It's my fundraiser for the site. :)  ) But, you will also need a new head gasket when you take the head off to install these.  :(
Mark....he said through the wall.....not seeping from the rear through the head gasket. You don't need extra thick orings with decking the cylinder and milling the head. In fact extra thick orings could block oil flow if things have really been worked. Kenny addressed this issue recently on the CycvleX website.
 On the other hand these RC blocks sucked so they did crack all the time...they are junk. Russ Jr agrees.
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Offline bear

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Re: RC ENGINEERING BIG BLOCK LEAKING OIL
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2020, 07:44:47 pm »
On the other hand these RC blocks sucked so they did crack all the time...they are junk. Russ Jr agrees.


Once again I have to say great minds think alike.  ;D

Cheers,
Brian
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Offline scottly

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Re: RC ENGINEERING BIG BLOCK LEAKING OIL
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2020, 07:48:10 pm »
I've heard of sealing porous castings using a type of superglue/locktight product, where the thin product was applied and then subjected to a vacuum, which pulled it into the pores. Not sure if it's worth the effort, given the lack of cooling fins on the RC block.   
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Offline bear

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Re: RC ENGINEERING BIG BLOCK LEAKING OIL
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2020, 08:03:02 pm »
I've heard of sealing porous castings using a type of superglue/locktight product, where the thin product was applied and then subjected to a vacuum, which pulled it into the pores. Not sure if it's worth the effort, given the lack of cooling fins on the RC block.

Sounds like an interesting product Scott. But in my opinion in this case it would only treat the symptom not the disease. It may well be porous but I will bet my left one that the underlying issue is cracking.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2020, 01:47:25 am by bear »
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Offline Cbcpastorjack

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Re: RC ENGINEERING BIG BLOCK LEAKING OIL
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2020, 05:38:09 am »
This was an unused block and I had it sleeved when I got ready to use it.  However, the machinist did NOT use o-rings around the bottom of the sleeves, could this be part of the problem???  Just asking...

Offline bear

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Re: RC ENGINEERING BIG BLOCK LEAKING OIL
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2020, 08:37:38 am »
More than likely pushing new sleeves into it would be the problem.
Any of the scenarios mentioned here will require you to strip the top end so one way or the other you will nail down your issue.
One things for sure...... waiving a magic wand over it or us old blokes tryng to out guess each other ain't gunna help you.
I think it's time to pull the spanners out.
I'm hoping for the the least amount of pain for you, I really am.
Just remember, you will sort it out and you will get it back on the road.

Cheers,
Brian
The older I get the faster I was.

Offline MRieck

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Re: RC ENGINEERING BIG BLOCK LEAKING OIL
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2020, 12:16:48 pm »
This was an unused block and I had it sleeved when I got ready to use it.  However, the machinist did NOT use o-rings around the bottom of the sleeves, could this be part of the problem???  Just asking...
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Offline Cbcpastorjack

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Re: RC ENGINEERING BIG BLOCK LEAKING OIL
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2020, 02:27:30 pm »
Today I cleaned it off impeccably. When I crank the engine and ran it within 15 seconds oil was coming out… Through the front side of the head . It look like sweat beats popping out from multiple places. That’s frustrating. Anybody got any ideas short of replacing the head?

Offline Don R

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Re: RC ENGINEERING BIG BLOCK LEAKING OIL
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2020, 09:53:57 am »
 That's unfortunate. I just spent a boatload of money replacing aftermarket defective heads on a BBC race motor so I feel your pain. Mine had porosity in the castings. Lack of knowledge of the issue led to their use until failure. 3 repair attempts later, I gave up. 
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Offline Tintop

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Re: RC ENGINEERING BIG BLOCK LEAKING OIL
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2020, 05:39:33 pm »
Pictures??
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: RC ENGINEERING BIG BLOCK LEAKING OIL
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2020, 06:33:52 pm »
In the 1970s when HD was on the skids (and AMF had just bought them), my shop (we also sold HD) kept getting new Sportsters that weeped oil through the side covers that were wetted, and the bottom. The one thing that finally worked was: after fully cleaning the engines, we ran them to hot and studied the leak spots, let it cool overnight, cleaned again, then finger-wiped aluminum-based paint onto/into those spots. We had already replaced cases and covers on some of these, only to get weeps in other places: the castings were porous. The aluminum paint method was still working 3 years (seasons) later when I left for Colorado. The method might help save this cylinder block?

All: using the 2.6mm thick O-rings for the CB750 head oil passages, even with a cylinder decked that has been milled back to flush with the oil passage recess, does not compress the O-ring far enough to block it, even with HD studs in place: the modern head gaskets are at least 1.0mm thick after torquing (some are 1.1mm thick, like some of the MLS 836cc gaskets I have dealt with). I never recommend anything for these bikes that hasn't been thoroughly measured, tested, and proven for years, unless it is my own ride. Then any mistakes can be my own fault. ;)  :)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

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Offline scottly

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Re: RC ENGINEERING BIG BLOCK LEAKING OIL
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2020, 10:28:07 pm »
Today I cleaned it off impeccably. When I crank the engine and ran it within 15 seconds oil was coming out… Through the front side of the head . It look like sweat beats popping out from multiple places. That’s frustrating. Anybody got any ideas short of replacing the head?
Out of the head or the cylinder block??
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
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Offline Cbcpastorjack

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Re: RC ENGINEERING BIG BLOCK LEAKING OIL
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2020, 06:47:46 am »
The cylinder block.  Sorry.  Front side, between #2 cyl and cam chain galley. 

Offline Cbcpastorjack

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Re: RC ENGINEERING BIG BLOCK LEAKING OIL
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2020, 06:17:44 pm »
Great news.  I cleaned the area of all paint and then cleaned it numerous times. I removed all the oil and then lightly scuffed the surface with an abrasive bit and a Dremel tool. I cleaned it a few more times and then, using Permatex ultra black high temp sealant, pressed it into the area where the block was leaking with all my strength on the first swipe and then a few wipes over it to increase thickness and contact area. I let it sit for about a week because I had to go out of town. Got back today, fired her up and guess what? No leaks! Going to take it out and ride it tomorrow and see how it does. 

Offline Cbcpastorjack

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Re: RC ENGINEERING BIG BLOCK LEAKING OIL
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2020, 01:34:56 pm »
So far, so good.  No more leaks!  Thanks for all the help and suggestions.

Offline PeWe

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Re: RC ENGINEERING BIG BLOCK LEAKING OIL
« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2020, 11:09:43 pm »
Good thing to have a product that can seal leaks from outside without taking everything apart.

Seems to be something for the toolbox :D
Penetrating thin glue/ sealer that can handle oily surface would be fine too.

Loctite 290 is one thin penetrating product.

LOCTITE 290 is a liquid medium/high-strength threadlocker designed for the locking and sealing of threaded fasteners. Because of its low viscosity and capillary action, the product wicks between engaged threads and eliminates the need for disassembly prior to application. The product cures when confined in the absence of air between close-fitting metal surfaces and prevents loosening and leakage due to shock and vibration.

!!!  The product can also fill porosities in welds, castings and powdered metal parts. !!!
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Offline Laids

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Re: RC ENGINEERING BIG BLOCK LEAKING OIL
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2020, 03:22:58 pm »
I've had a few H A 900 kits over the years which were kind of famous for leaking oil. The last one was of unknown age. I did some work on the head and when reinstalled was like the Exxon Valdez with the amount of oil that came out. It was tracked down to between the inner cylinders. I cleaned it up and put clear silicone between the cylinders, which pretty much reduced the oil aerosol to a few drips. I was running an oil cooler for overheating which probably helped.