Author Topic: Evaluating top end  (Read 1572 times)

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Offline JWB

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Evaluating top end
« on: August 24, 2020, 06:19:41 PM »
74 550 28,000 miles, last registration I could find was 83 so not sure when this engine last ran.  When I received the bike I removed the spark plugs and sprayed a healthy dose of fogging oil into each cylinder, let sit for a week before turning the engine over.  I wasn't going to do anything to the engine except changing the valve cover gasket since I noticed signs of a oil leak there.  Stupidly when re-installing the valve I didn't do my research or read my Haynes manual and pretty sure I bent at least 1 valve when attempting to bolt down the cover.  After I when back and did my research I found out that I should have lifted the tappets while torquing down the cover.  After I got the valve cover back on and rotated the engine I heard 1 or mare valve snapping shut.  Thus I tore down the top end so I can remove the valves and see which ones are bent. 
That is my prelude to my question.  Looking at the attached pictures is there anything I need to worry about?  Of course I will replace all the gaskets, clean the head and pistons of carbon build up.
Should I take the head to a shop to have it resurfaced?
Should I replace the rings?  No scoring or groves in the cylinders themselves.
Anything else I should do while the engine is disassembled to this point?
Thanks in advance.
John

Offline 70CB750

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Re: Evaluating top end
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2020, 12:39:32 AM »
Leave rings alone, replace bent valves - still dont know how you bent valve by installing the cover??

Is it 750?

New valves need to be lapped in.
Prokop
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Offline JWB

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Re: Evaluating top end
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2020, 04:53:39 AM »
70CB750, aka very old timer - Mine is a 74 550.  I know the engine turned over just fine before I removed and tried to re-install the valve cover.  When doing the re-install I was having a hard time lining up the bolt holes and alignment pins and started tightening down the bolt in order to line things up but couldn't get it to fit.  I did hear a couple snaps while tightening so I stopped.  My second attempt I lifted the tappets with rubber bands and it went on fine but I think the damage was done. See the picture from the Haynes manual which is what I think I did. 

Offline 70CB750

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Re: Evaluating top end
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2020, 05:20:10 AM »
70CB750, aka very old timer - Mine is a 74 550.  I know the engine turned over just fine before I removed and tried to re-install the valve cover.  When doing the re-install I was having a hard time lining up the bolt holes and alignment pins and started tightening down the bolt in order to line things up but couldn't get it to fit.  I did hear a couple snaps while tightening so I stopped.  My second attempt I lifted the tappets with rubber bands and it went on fine but I think the damage was done. See the picture from the Haynes manual which is what I think I did.

I figured on my ride to work that must be the case.   I never touched 550 but I remembered the cover is a cam holder, too.  Good luck!
Prokop
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Offline bryanj

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Re: Evaluating top end
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2020, 07:06:36 AM »
Replace bent valves but check the guides carefully, replace all stem seals and if rings free on pistons leave them alone.
New gaskets and pucks NO GOO except on pucks and dont forget the soft washer between cam cover side bracket and cover or you will have a leak
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline jonda500

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Re: Evaluating top end
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2020, 05:15:26 PM »
dont forget the soft washer between cam cover side bracket and cover or you will have a leak
Any one know where to buy these? - I had a small leak there so I took the bracket & washer off, straightened them, annealed the washer (heated and quenched) and put them back on only to find that I've made the leak ten times worse - the oil makes it all the way down into the fins now :(
I have tried cmsl and partzilla, but no luck. If there are no 'buy it now' options suggested, I will email jtmarts and await his reply with crossed fingers.
I wonder would a copper washer work, or one cut out of an aluminium can?
John
Remember that an ignoramus is only someone who doesn't know something you just learned yesterday!

A starter clutch thread:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,122084.0.html
1972 CB500K1 original 4 owner bike
1972 CB500K1 returned to complete/original condition
1975 CB550F built from parts - project thread:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,149161.msg1711626.html#msg1711626
197? CB500/550 constructing from left over parts
1998 KTM 380 (two stroke) recent impulse buy, mmmm...

Offline Maraakate

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Re: Evaluating top end
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2020, 07:13:04 PM »
dont forget the soft washer between cam cover side bracket and cover or you will have a leak
Any one know where to buy these? - I had a small leak there so I took the bracket & washer off, straightened them, annealed the washer (heated and quenched) and put them back on only to find that I've made the leak ten times worse - the oil makes it all the way down into the fins now :(
I have tried cmsl and partzilla, but no luck. If there are no 'buy it now' options suggested, I will email jtmarts and await his reply with crossed fingers.
I wonder would a copper washer work, or one cut out of an aluminium can?
John

Are you talking about this? https://www.ebay.com/itm/GENUINE-Honda-NOS-90485-001-000-WASHER-6-5MM-/232425722553

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/motorcycle/1977/cb550k-a-550-four-k/cylinder-head-cover -- Part 14 on the microfiche?
1977 CB550K
1979 CM400A

Offline Maraakate

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Re: Evaluating top end
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2020, 07:15:56 PM »
And, if the answer is yes to my previous post... looks like this has already been answered in another thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=155941.0
1977 CB550K
1979 CM400A

Offline jonda500

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Re: Evaluating top end
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2020, 08:18:02 PM »
Yes - thanks Maraake that answers my question! John
Remember that an ignoramus is only someone who doesn't know something you just learned yesterday!

A starter clutch thread:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,122084.0.html
1972 CB500K1 original 4 owner bike
1972 CB500K1 returned to complete/original condition
1975 CB550F built from parts - project thread:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,149161.msg1711626.html#msg1711626
197? CB500/550 constructing from left over parts
1998 KTM 380 (two stroke) recent impulse buy, mmmm...

Offline bryanj

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Re: Evaluating top end
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2020, 09:10:48 PM »
The "Dowty" washers i talked about you should be able to get from somewhere that reairs or makes hydraulic hoses, alluminium is better than copper in this position but copper will do
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline JWB

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Re: Evaluating top end
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2020, 08:19:17 AM »
Bryanj,
Are these the pucks and soft washers you were talking about?

Also, what am I looking for in the valve guides once I get the valves removed?

Once the springs are removed if I spin the valve while seated should I be able to see if it is bent with my eye, or do I need to use something as fine as a dial micrometer to tell?

Offline bryanj

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Re: Evaluating top end
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2020, 10:01:33 AM »
Yes those are the pucks and washers, if the valve is bent you should be able to see it, on the guide you are looking for cracking or even the top being broken off
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline JWB

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Re: Evaluating top end
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2020, 10:03:48 AM »
I ordered a full top\bottom end gasket kit from David Silver.  It doesn't list every gasket, but figured those washers won't be included.  I will use the links I saw to purchase some.
Thanks for all the great information.
John