Topic: Terry's Effing F2, return of the prodigal SOHC4?

[madmtnmotors]

Progressing nicely! 

[PeWe]

Is that a satin blue metallic?
It match the bike really well!

[Terry in Australia]

Thanks guys, I'm really happy with it. Still thinking about buying a decal kit for it, but no rush, it'll do for the time being. Per the colour is a Mazda MX5 (Miata?) code, I can post it here if you like, it's a metal flake so really pops in sunlight, and I sprayed quite a bit of gloss clear lacquer over it to protect it from sun fading, fuel spills etc.

Horrible weather today, was howling down rain until a little while ago, so will put the Kawasaki GPZ1100 engine back together to prep it for installing in the black bike, while I wait for the Dyna 2000 ignition to arrive for the 1428 engine, and think about some additional crank case ventilation.

[PeWe]

Yes, the Mazda MX5 color code can be useful.

[PeWe]

Which color is it?
Mazda Miata got some nice blues
Scroll down...
https://www.miata.net/faq/production.html

Winning blue?
https://www.miata.net/gallery/images/06blue.jpg

[Terry in Australia]

Sorry Per, I took a pic of it a few days ago, then when the K0 stuff arrived, I got all excited and forgot to post it. Here it is.

GPZ1100 Clutch cover gasket 21 Oct 2020 4 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

I really like the colour, and the finish is magnificent. Last night I went out to my garage to get another ginger beer in the dark using my iphone's torch, and I shone it onto the tank, and the metalflake really popped! I used 2 x 150gram cans to do the tank and I have one left to do the sidecovers and ducktail, so I've ordered another can just to make sure I have enough. I was in two minds whether to paint it blue or black, but am now really happy with the blue.

[PeWe]

I could not resist to search a little about "Celestial blue mica"
Color Code 38J for:
2004-2013 Mazda 3
2007-2013 Mazda 6

[dave500]

id let that liner really cure another week with the cap open,its gotta really harden.

[grcamna2]

id let that liner really cure another week with the cap open,its gotta really harden.

+1    Terry,does the acrylic lacquer resist ethanol gasoline when spilled on it ?

[PeWe]

It is close to my K6 stock Candy Sapphire Blue. My Yamiya tank set is darker.

Like this which is repainted .
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C915265

Old photo I have photographed
This is my stock tank.

[Terry in Australia]

Chopper Town! I love those Z Bars Per, I’ve got a couple of pairs out in my garage still! That paint does look close, and it is a beautiful colour too!

[PeWe]

Those bars were very popular in the 70's and early 80's.
(Photo from 1980).
Very comfortable city ride which mostly were from one cafe to another or a place were people gathered. Lots if chicks walked around in the city center too.

Handling really sucked, especially with that Dunstall front fender.
The RC 4-1 pipe (K7 version) look fine. It should be available with better ground clearance, rearrange the header.

I should have saved the side covers when cracked  for color matching. Replaced by fiberglass aftermarket.

I doubt my stock tank has any blue paint left. I removed it by the good working stripper before repaint.

Your Mazda paint will probably be a good working alternative.

[Terry in Australia]

Yep, I never went the whole "Street Chopper" look, but I had pullback bars and dragpipes on my K1 and thought they were pretty cool then, and still do now. 

But I digress, yesterday was the best of days, and the worst of days. Of course your posts regarding how long to leave my tank liner before I filled it with gas were seen too late, but regardless, the instructions said 4 days and I left it 14 days including 6 hours in my industrial oven @70 deg C, so it was rock hard. I know that for a fact, because a little pool ran out of the petcock hole, and was as hard as a rock when I scraped it off the smooth stainless steel floor of the oven, so that wasn't an issue.

But there was an issue. In fact, there were several. I installed my beautiful blue tank on the bike, filled it with 98 RON gas, turned the ignition on, pulled the choke knob and pressed the button.

Terry's Effing F2 Sun 25 Oct 2020 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Nothing. Hmmnnn, not the first time this has happened, so I gave the kick start a prod, and it fired right up. It seemed to be idling very nicely and "sounded" like it was idling around 1000 RPM, but the tacho read 2K RPM. WTF? It certainly didn't sound it, so I left it idling smoothly at twice the recommended RPM. I thought I better check that all the lights and blinkers worked. I hit the left blinker, and the engine cut out. Weird.

Oh well, I gave the kicker another prod, and it fired right up. Hit the right blinker, and the engine stalled again. WTF? This time the electric start worked fine, and it fired right up. The brake lights both worked, the headlight worked, the voltmeter was only reading around 10.5 volts though, but when I gave it a rev, the volts came up to 14.4 volts. A little high? But anyway, it was 12pm, and the weather map said rain in one hour, so I took off. The first good thing, was that the howling speedo cable that I'd soaked in WD40 was no longer making any noise, and with the Dyna coils and Kokusan ignition throwing a nice fat spark, the engine was running beautifully.

Making sure not to use the blinkers, I rode thru the usually very busy (but currently very quiet) streets, until I hit the freeway. This was when I discovered two very important issues. 1, either the speedo is optimistic by around 20% or everyone else was speeding, and at an indicated 100 KPH (60 MPH) which is the speed limit but all the cars around me were passing me, the tach (that I'd pulled out of a parts bin, because the F2 was missing a tach when I bought it) was reading 7500 RPM! No, the clutch wasn't slipping, and no, it felt like 4000 RPM, which is about right. Hmmnnn, again. Well that made sense at least that 2000 RPM on the tacho only sounded like 1000 RPM, so I was about to jump on the Bay and find a better tach, when my mate Fred rang, and while we were discussing it, he said, "I've got a tach here for one, you can have it!" Woohoo! He sent pics of it, and it's not as beat up looking as mine, so double bonus. I won't worry about buying another speedo, I found a better looking one than what's on it now, but interestingly, instead of "ND" on the bottom, it reads "Nippon Seiki Japan"? Definitely the same gauge, but I haven't seen that before?

Anyhoo, apart from those issues, it went real well. No funny engine noises, no backfiring, missing or farting, the brakes worked as well as any other F2 I've ridden, and apart from the crusty tyres inspiring no confidence at all, I had a great 11 mile ride.

Terry's Effing F2 Sun 25 Oct 2020 5 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

I wanted to take a pic to post in the "Let's see your SOHC4 out on the road" thread, but I'd forgotten to take a mask, which meant I couldn't stop anywhere interesting, so I had to park outside my own house to take a pic. Oh well, it looked pretty good.

Terry's Effing F2 Sun 25 Oct 2020 2 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

The rain had by now started, so I rolled it into the garage, and went inside to get changed to do some dirty work cleaning up the K0 cases.

Terry's Effing F2 Sun 25 Oct 2020 4 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

I came back out and wondered if I'd remembered to turn the fuel off. as I reached down the left side of the tank, I felt some thing........ wet. Oh fcuk, it was fuel. It was seeping out of the front badge mounting pin hole. I should have filled it with JB weld and just stuck the badge on with double sided tape. Oh well, I ran into my house, pulled out my .44 magnum, and blew my brains out. OK, well, I didn't, but only because I don't own a .44 magnum, and anyway, if I did, I would have shot my beautiful blue tank, not myself, unless I tripped over when I was drunk. But I was still pissed off!

I syphoned the gas back into a container to take it below the level of the leak, and I opened a bottle of Ginger Rocket. Thank God I've got several builds going at the same time, I just left it, and moved onto removing all the rusty gears etc out of the K0 cases in preparation for the engine build. More tomorrow.    



 

 

[PeWe]

The bike look fine, Terry!
Sorry about the tank issue, a real stab in your back! Not nice!

More JB weld might have delayed it until a long ride far from home. 

Too much revving tacho was an issue on my K6 at first start after the initial restore.
CB500 tacho looked like CB750 but revs more. Red line start later too, 9000 something as the F bike likes.

Can speedo gearing differ too if you use CB500/550 speedo?

[754]

 Should have just soldiered it.
 Try the old standby GE Silicone... no not a other brand.. use GE... i had to convince one non believer , by poking a holi in a soda can with gas to one side, applying GE, standing it upright  so gas covered the hole  and it stopped leaking. .
 I like to think it is still the same stuff,..

[PeWe]

Find another good tank and paint it blue.
A good ride later all misfortune is forgotten, transformed to experience

[Terry in Australia]

Ha ha, no, the tank is still repairable, the JB Weld worked fine, the error I made was not using any JB weld to fill the Honda badge front pin hole, so all I'm going to do is enlarge the hole, fill it with JB Weld and it'll be good to go! JB weld is fuel proof, and better (in my opinion) than solder, which wouldn't have worked any better unless I flooded the badge area including the badge pin hole.

The downside of solder is that the flux that would have inevitably entered the tank would have made the tank liner impossible to adhere to, rendering it useless. While the liner didn't really get  the job done in this case, as another friend explained to me yesterday, as the liner was being rotated over a sharp convex shape, it was able to fill the bigger holes, but not so much the smaller ones. The good thing is, it'll never rot at the seams, where most F tanks rot out.

Today my ignition switch fix kit arrived, I took a gamble as it was advertised as being for 1979-1983 CB750/900/1100, but looked like it was the same as the one on the F2. It was.

Terry's Effing F2 ignition switch fix by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Terry's Effing F2 ignition switch fix 1 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

I just compared it to the spare one I have from Cliff's box of parts, I haven't installed it yet as I was busy cleaning K0 engine cases and shoving my GPZ1100 engine into the KZ1000 Frame, which is no mean feat. As far as the F2 tank goes, I'll let it dry properly for a few more days, then fix it, and go for another ride. In a couple of weeks the 25 Km limit is lifted, so I can do some 100 milers again soon. As mentioned previously, I have more than enough projects to keep me going, so I'll have plenty more to keep me busy. Check my other threads tomorrow, it's a busy time in the ol' workshop right now!    

[RAFster122s]

Apparently the Emgo switch kits and switches are OK quality gor that style switch. But, the Emgo switch that the early 550 and 500s and some early 750 used that were located on frame below the tank front are not good and burn up much easier. The also did an improved version of the switch you show Terry.  I think they might have changed from a plug into the body of the switch to a short pigtail that plugs in. Pretty sure I recall seeing Emgo selling one like that.

It really sucks to have the tank leak after all the hard work and steps to make it not have leaks. I think the viscosity of the liner is going to impact the liner ability to coat and seal small holes. A more viscous liquid will have a harder time entering a small opening.

[seanbarney41]

Terry, if there was a leak after you lined it, that means gasoline has got behind the liner destroying its adhesion.  I would guess the liner will fail quite rapidly.  Of course, if you are not keeping the bike, the point is moot, as it will probably not be your problem.

[754]

 Correct me if I am wrong., but if tank were drained and on its side and dry. Leaky side down.
 Can you get to the emblem bump through filler hole ? Then by brush apply several layers of tank sealer, on the leak area. Drying in between. I am thinking because it's a high spot, the sealer is running off it and not able  build up a thick enough layer to seal.

[Terry in Australia]

Thanks guys, nope, I don’t think the fuel has gotten in behind the liner Sean, I shone a torch in through the filler hole and there’s no bubbling or sagging, the problem is as David suggested, the liner wasn’t viscous enough to leave a layer over the top of a convex pressing.

The JB weld end (towards the rear of the tank badge area where the bigger holes were) is fine, it’s dry and looking great, so what I’m going to do is lay the tank on it’s good side, and enlarge the front badge hole to around a quarter inch or so, mix up some more JB weld and pack the hole with it. All going well (fingers crossed) I won’t do any damage to the paint, which is still looking pretty good.

Frank, I like your idea, but can’t get a brush to the inside of the affected area. I did think about using the degreaser that I kept from rinsing the tank as the first part of the process then tipping in a can of POR-15, but I’ve read all sorts of horror stories about one liner not sticking to the other one, etc.

If my cunning plan doesn’t work I’ll either shell out for another tank (hoping that I don’t get another lemon) or I’ll cut the rotten section right out, and use that piece from the other rotten F tank that I have hanging up, and weld it into my tank. I still haven’t fired up the TIG welder I bought ages ago, so it might be a good project for it.

Thanks for the info re: those Emgo switches David, I’m hoping the new piece fixes a couple of issues, knowing that something isn’t quite right plays havoc with my OCD.

[RAFster122s]

Terry, pick up a small auto relay and take the load off the switch contacts by having the switch serve as the trigger for the relay. You can pick up very small 20A relays from Hyundai that are good quality. I think they are big name relay maker branded as the auto company relays. So, your switch then lasts until it mechanically wears out.

[Terry in Australia]

Thanks David, electronic stuff is my kryptonite, when I think relay I picture a black block with 3 or 4 terminals (like a car’s horn or light relay) is that what you mean? Or is there something like an inline relay for each of the power wires that come out of the switch? I’m about to have my old Ford Explorer towed away to the tired old car happy hunting ground, should I steal all the relays before it leaves me feeling guilty......

[RAFster122s]

Yes, that’s correct. One side of the relay is the switch in your old circuit and then rather than powering the circuit that normally is powered through the switch turning on it just turns the relay on. The power to the circuit is then provided by the relay contacts rated for 20A and they are designed to be able to do that 10k or 20k times without damaged. The power needed to operate the relay is very small. So, the black wire and switched power from the bike’s ignition switch is then getting the power feed from the relay instead of directly from the ignition switch. It adds a failure point in adding complexity to the bike but it removes the failure point of the ignition switch contacts. So, your ignition switch output for switched power, the black wire, is powering the relay’s primary side that activates the relay contacts. The relay power terminals then feed the bike its power directly from the battery positive Terminal to the rest of the bike through the relay contacts.

[Terry in Australia]

Thanks David, sounds like a good idea, when you get time, would you mind drawing a wiring diagram for me? I.e., which wires go to which terminal on the relay, so I don't melt something important? As previously mentioned, I consider basic electronics white mans magic, so any assistance will be appreciated.