Author Topic: Higher Output Field Coil Needed for Heated Gear  (Read 2516 times)

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Offline Artie

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Higher Output Field Coil Needed for Heated Gear
« on: September 18, 2020, 07:41:55 AM »
I’ve been told that the CB750 A (automatic) has a 20% higher output that Standard Unit ?
If thats true will  the 1976A field coil do the trick and give me more power for my heated jacket liner and Oxford grips on my perfectly running 1971 CB750K1
Is it as simple as just changing that 1 item and no changes in wiring or VR required?
I know at low speeds OEM  charging rate is adequate only
but with both jacket and heated grips both on medium it’s not enough juice.
Electric starts weak within 1-2 hours of mixed riding but kickstarts instantly as it’s a HONDA!
Oxford grips are really a good product and the below 11.8 volt shut down feature is a nice touch as is the auto shut down on engine off.
The low voltage blinking telling me that batt voltage is low is a constant reminder with any medium speed
On the highway just takes longer to start drawing down battery power
Battery is good and system will put out 14.5 volts @ 2500-3000 RPMs with no load
I also have OEM rectifier and VR
are newer replacement solid state combined any benefits by themselves?
Thanks in advance

Offline rotortiller

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Re: Higher Output Field Coil Needed for Heated Gear
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2020, 10:23:04 AM »
Maybe buy a heated gear that his it's own power supply.

https://gadgets-reviews.com/review/791-best-heated-jackets.html

Online bryanj

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Re: Higher Output Field Coil Needed for Heated Gear
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2020, 01:13:24 PM »
Hard part is finding the A coil
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Higher Output Field Coil Needed for Heated Gear
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2020, 01:46:25 PM »
subscribed
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
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Offline scottly

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Re: Higher Output Field Coil Needed for Heated Gear
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2020, 10:21:39 PM »
How much power does your heated gear draw?
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
Helmets save brains. Always wear one and ride like everyone is trying to kill you....

Offline Bodi

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Re: Higher Output Field Coil Needed for Heated Gear
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2020, 05:09:01 AM »
An electronic regulator must produce slightly less field coil power than a mechanical (stock) regulator assuming both are in good condition. No switching transistor has zero voltage drop, a relay contact can come close enough to call it zero.
You can use Shottky diodes in a rectifier and gain a bit of power output, I don't know how much but not a great deal.
The difference in either of these is miniscule, really.
What happens when you draw more power than the alternator produces is a drop in system voltage until load = supply. Loads are basically resistors. Power load in a resistor drops exponentially as voltage drops. Alternator output drops linearly as field coil voltage drops. The voltage will drop to where these balance, below the battery full charge float voltage... the battery will contribute power slowing the voltage drop. Hopefully the balance voltage is high enough to keep the sparks sparking and engine running.
A friend tried a home made permanent magnet rotor using "super" magnets and a shunt regulator. It definitely made a lot of power... one stator coil burned out, a replacement lasted longer only because the magnets lost strength from being too hot themselves: those fancy magnets don't survive heat so well. Project is still in development.
There are alternator replacement kits claiming to give lots more output. Probably work but pretty expensive.

Passive thermal management is much less bother. Get a warmer jacket and gloves.

Offline MJL

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Re: Higher Output Field Coil Needed for Heated Gear
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2020, 10:03:07 AM »
Maybe look up the old fuel injection threads. Some of yhose guys (as i remember) modified the cover for a newer alternator with higher output.
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Offline newday777

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Re: Higher Output Field Coil Needed for Heated Gear
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2020, 01:45:58 PM »
Have you changed out all lights to LED yet? That might get you enough charging extra to run the gear if not too high a draw.
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline Dunk

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Re: Higher Output Field Coil Needed for Heated Gear
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2020, 08:03:37 AM »
Years ago I picked up a CB750A alternator. I believe the field coil has an appreciably different resistance, and the stator resistance measured similar to a normal CB750 stator but the output wires looked larger. I never got around to installing it and comparing output before and after, though it's still on my list of things to do. I doubt it would be enough to run heater grips or gear, but you never know until you try.

I was trying to get in line for one of the high output alternators the guy in NH was making, but he seems to disappear form the forums a while back.

With the stock system you can increase efficiency with a solid state regulator such as from Oregon Motorcycle Parts. Clean and replace all your connections as needed. I find the three female bullet connectors from the stator get wear and need to be cleaned and crimped periodically or replaced. I suspect this occurs from running the changing system near max output so the connectors can heat up a bit, more so the moment they get dirty. LED lighting will reduce current draw. A proper H4 headlight with relays and upgraded wiring can help. Try differnet wattage bulbs if you're close to having enough to run the heater gear. Figure out how many amps your charging system can put out and how much everything you want to run draws.

Offline knowsnothing

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Re: Higher Output Field Coil Needed for Heated Gear
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2020, 11:00:45 AM »
A forum member here used to make an alternator upgrade.  They aren't cheap, but quality is top notch and perfect for heated gear.  He has since retired making these i think, but there may be kicking around somewhere that might be for sale

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,117735.0.html
1978 CB750k Green - 811 engine
1978 CB750k Blue - for sale
1974 CB375F Faded Black - had to have that 6th gear
1976 CB400F Red - in many pieces
1973 CB350F TBD - in many pieces

Offline andy750

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Re: Higher Output Field Coil Needed for Heated Gear
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2020, 05:06:13 PM »
A forum member here used to make an alternator upgrade.  They aren't cheap, but quality is top notch and perfect for heated gear.  He has since retired making these i think, but there may be kicking around somewhere that might be for sale

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,117735.0.html

I bought one and its amazing: bike starts up easily and I can run a Gerbing heated jacket and gloves on full power and probably more of I needed it. Really useful to have in the Fall and Spring when its 40-50F out. With no fairing can ride all day in comfort. Well worth the money. But yes sadly he is no longer making these.
Current bikes
1. CB750K4: Long distance bike, 17 countries and counting...2001 - Trans-USA-Mexico, 2003 - European Tour, 2004 - SOHC Easy Rider Trip , 2008 - Adirondack Tour 2-up , 2013 - Tail of the Dragon Tour , 2017: 836 kit install and bottom end rebuild. And rebirth: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173213.msg2029836.html#msg2029836
2. CB750/810cc K2  - road racer with JMR worked head 71 hp
3. Yamaha Tenere T700 2022

Where did you go on your bike today? - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.2350

Offline Dunk

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Re: Higher Output Field Coil Needed for Heated Gear
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2020, 05:23:00 PM »
That sounds amazing for those 30* rides to work when there's a chance of snow for the ride home. I don't think the CB750A alternator can accommodate that, but if there are other options for more output I'm interested.

Offline Jore

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Re: Higher Output Field Coil Needed for Heated Gear
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2020, 04:10:17 PM »
I'm in the process of changing to alternator on my 400 to one from an 03 cbr600rr, not my idea, saw here on the boards, but if you're looking for more power that might be an option.

There's plenty of space inside the cases once you remove the old alt, all that's needed in the 400 is a spacer but it should be an easy thing to do.
1975 CB400F owner
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Offline PeWe

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Re: Higher Output Field Coil Needed for Heated Gear
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2020, 09:20:22 PM »
Headlight with parking light will save power.
My K6 is rather visible daytime with 10W LED. But that needs P on RH switch and HI-LO on LH switch as Euro bike had.

K2 had P-L-H on RH switch, an additional On-Off switch beside LH switch.

My headlight has LED H4 which take 30W, 25W less than std H4.

I have tried rear light with LED but all I tried where really bad.

Rear light is only 5W, 21W when braking which is a must to be bright, safety. Blinkers take some power too, but not for long.
Electronic ignition take more than points. Especially with 3 ohm coils.

Use warm clothing. Merino wool underwear. Warmer gloves.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline fantino

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Re: Higher Output Field Coil Needed for Heated Gear
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2020, 04:38:35 AM »
Electrex make a 3ph permanent magnet 25A/~300W race alternator kit for most SOHC4s. It’s not cheap and the rotor is very light at under a quarter of a kilo, which may be good or bad depending on your riding style/requirements. I also don’t know the output curve as they don’t publish that info and I have not had the opportunity to run and measure mine yet. They'd probably provide it if asked.

The regulator the kit comes with is also not tuned for use with Li-Po batteries if that’s important to you.



https://www.electrexworld.co.uk/acatalog/RPK-1752_Honda_CB750_CB900_CB1100_Alternator_System.html#SID=918

Offline david 750f

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Re: Higher Output Field Coil Needed for Heated Gear
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2020, 05:10:59 AM »
Fantino, I’ve seen those before. Looks like a quality piece. Here is the SOHC 750 link. They also make one for 400 and 550 fours. No starter, kick start only as it’s for race bikes.
https://www.electrexworld.co.uk/acatalog/RPK-1750-Honda-CB750-SOHC-Alternator-System.html#SID=918
« Last Edit: September 26, 2020, 05:59:31 AM by david 750F »
1976 CB 750F

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Higher Output Field Coil Needed for Heated Gear
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2020, 12:20:49 PM »
Electrex World is a great company with quality components;I wish they were still here in the USA(they had an office on the West Coast complete with a technical service guy)as they were in the 90's+.They helped me with good service and parts for my 1st Gen. VFR750F.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline fantino

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Re: Higher Output Field Coil Needed for Heated Gear
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2020, 12:26:16 PM »
Oops, linked the wrong 750 kit, haha. Good catch.

I have one of their kits for my CB500, the workmanship is very nice, although I haven't been able to install it yet, so I can't comment on its operation. Luckily for the smaller bikes there's no issue with keeping the starter 😅
« Last Edit: September 26, 2020, 12:27:55 PM by fantino »

Offline Artie

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Re: Higher Output Field Coil Needed for Heated Gear
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2020, 12:50:25 PM »
Have you changed out all lights to LED yet? That might get you enough charging extra to run the gear if not too high a draw.
Changed headlight and tail lite to LED and it’s made a big difference
can run Hot Wire jacket and Oxford heated grips and voltage stays up for all but slow city driving for extended periods  And aware of that so reduce power if needed
really no issues now at all very happy
I run headlights on all the time can be Too bright enough for me

Offline andy750

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Re: Higher Output Field Coil Needed for Heated Gear
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2020, 02:34:10 PM »
Artie what headlight/taillight are you using?

Thanks
Andy
Current bikes
1. CB750K4: Long distance bike, 17 countries and counting...2001 - Trans-USA-Mexico, 2003 - European Tour, 2004 - SOHC Easy Rider Trip , 2008 - Adirondack Tour 2-up , 2013 - Tail of the Dragon Tour , 2017: 836 kit install and bottom end rebuild. And rebirth: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173213.msg2029836.html#msg2029836
2. CB750/810cc K2  - road racer with JMR worked head 71 hp
3. Yamaha Tenere T700 2022

Where did you go on your bike today? - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.2350


Offline PeWe

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Re: Higher Output Field Coil Needed for Heated Gear
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2020, 06:28:49 PM »
Better charging for slow city driving is possible.
A cheap circuit and diode as protection of thecircuit if a wire come lose.

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums%2Esohc4%2Enet%2Findex%2Ephp%3Ftopic%3D183347%2E0&share_tid=183347&share_fid=13548&share_type=t&link_source=app

The $6 Charging System Output Improvement Mod
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Artie

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Re: Higher Output Field Coil Needed for Heated Gear
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2020, 05:34:23 AM »
LED lights made such an improvement and the Antline tailight is a strobe on actuation!!!
They used to be expensive but not anymore
I have no issues of going out for the day with heated jacket liner and Oxford grips anymore
Strobe is comforting as I’ve known 2 people who’ve been drilled from behind when stopped strobe is hard to miss
I’m always nervous anytime I’m stopped at a light of cars coming up from behind

Offline PeWe

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Re: Higher Output Field Coil Needed for Heated Gear
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2020, 06:39:05 AM »
Talking about stopping at stop signs/ lights.

I drove my bike thru small cities in Italy in the 80's where I did not stop  since I was sure to be smashed from behind!
The driving culture did not include stop at stop signs.

Follow the rules can kill you, follow the traffic culture.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Erny

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Re: Higher Output Field Coil Needed for Heated Gear
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2020, 08:55:01 AM »
This culture is there (in Italy), still - my translation of stop sign in Italy (and similar in som Balkan countries) means slow down, be more carefull, but unless necessary do not stop!...
CB750K K7 USA model (1977)
CB550K1 USA model (1975)

Offline andy750

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Current bikes
1. CB750K4: Long distance bike, 17 countries and counting...2001 - Trans-USA-Mexico, 2003 - European Tour, 2004 - SOHC Easy Rider Trip , 2008 - Adirondack Tour 2-up , 2013 - Tail of the Dragon Tour , 2017: 836 kit install and bottom end rebuild. And rebirth: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173213.msg2029836.html#msg2029836
2. CB750/810cc K2  - road racer with JMR worked head 71 hp
3. Yamaha Tenere T700 2022

Where did you go on your bike today? - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.2350

Offline PeWe

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Re: Higher Output Field Coil Needed for Heated Gear
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2020, 03:41:50 AM »
Tail light...
Is it Antline 1157?
Example
https://www.ebay.com/itm/153523404710
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Online Don R

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Re: Higher Output Field Coil Needed for Heated Gear
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2020, 07:53:57 PM »
Headlight with parking light will save power.
My K6 is rather visible daytime with 10W LED. But that needs P on RH switch and HI-LO on LH switch as Euro bike had.

K2 had P-L-H on RH switch, an additional On-Off switch beside LH switch.

My headlight has LED H4 which take 30W, 25W less than std H4.

I have tried rear light with LED but all I tried where reall

Rear light is only 5W, 21W when braking which is a must to be bright, safety. Blinkers take some power too, but not for long.
Electronic ignition take more than points. Especially with 3 ohm coils.

 I did the euro style headlight/park lamp on a 400F. I got the right control from DSS and the Marchal headlamp from Yamiya. The LED park bulb lit up the headlamp good in the daytime. I even tried a blue LED bulb but it was so blue I figured the cops might be interested. There is a jumper wire under the tank that comes out. The switch went in with no cuts to the harness. (I assume it's in the headlight bucket on bigger CB's)

No matter how many times you paint over a shadow, it's still there.
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 You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Higher Output Field Coil Needed for Heated Gear
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2020, 09:29:05 PM »
Headlight with parking light will save power.
My K6 is rather visible daytime with 10W LED. But that needs P on RH switch and HI-LO on LH switch as Euro bike had.

K2 had P-L-H on RH switch, an additional On-Off switch beside LH switch.

My headlight has LED H4 which take 30W, 25W less than std H4.

I have tried rear light with LED but all I tried where reall

Rear light is only 5W, 21W when braking which is a must to be bright, safety. Blinkers take some power too, but not for long.
Electronic ignition take more than points. Especially with 3 ohm coils.

 I did the euro style headlight/park lamp on a 400F. I got the right control from DSS and the Marchal headlamp from Yamiya. The LED park bulb lit up the headlamp good in the daytime. I even tried a blue LED bulb but it was so blue I figured the cops might be interested. There is a jumper wire under the tank that comes out. The switch went in with no cuts to the harness. (I assume it's in the headlight bucket on bigger CB's)

Don,Did your red CB400F do ok as a project? thanks again for that VETTER fairing.  :)
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.