Author Topic: Oil Light came on while riding  (Read 6705 times)

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Offline jakec

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Oil Light came on while riding
« on: September 21, 2020, 02:50:26 PM »
On my fresh rebuild 400, my oil light came on yesterday while riding. I killed it and coasted to a stop. checked oil level and it was at the low mark on the stick.

I've ran the bike 1,400 miles since my initial oil change. The bike wasn't leaking any oil so I haven't checked level much, maybe once or twice. I guess it must have been burning off? That's a separate question.

Went home and got a qt of oil that I had, put it in, kicked it over a bunch, then started in a couple 10 second bursts (engine cooled down about 1 hour) but couldn't get oil pressure light to go off. I assume the pump has to be primed again now as it probably sucked up some air. Also tried some things like tilt the bike way over on the pump side, but nothing worked. I took the bike home on a flatbed.

Right now my plan is to dump oil, remove oil pump, prime, reinstall oil pump, refill bike with new oil, remove tappet cover, kick for a while, then try starting again.

Not sure why but electric start hasn't worked since the rebuild, I haven't looked into it yet but maybe I should for this project..
1970 CB750 K0
1977 CB750 Chop
1997 XR650L

Offline jakec

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Re: Oil Light came on while riding
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2020, 02:53:12 PM »
Regarding the electric start, it worked before rebuild and the switch is already rebuilt with the #d printed part. The headlight turns off when press the switch, just nothing from starter motor.
1970 CB750 K0
1977 CB750 Chop
1997 XR650L

Offline Tim2005

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Re: Oil Light came on while riding
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2020, 02:58:26 PM »
That's odd. Did you have to put the whole quart in? Usually bottom to top of the dipstick marks takes much less than that.

If you did, then yes your oil was really low and I'd follow your plan to start with. If not, the first thing I'd do is change your oil pressure switch. I'm wondering if that has failed.

Offline jakec

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Re: Oil Light came on while riding
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2020, 03:10:29 PM »
I considered the switch going out, but when I saw the oil level being at the low mark, I figured it was probably accurate. Adding 1 qt brought me back to full, but the light wouldn't go off. which is what made me think the pump simply lost its prime.
1970 CB750 K0
1977 CB750 Chop
1997 XR650L

Offline bryanj

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Re: Oil Light came on while riding
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2020, 03:30:17 PM »
Never in my life had to prime a 400/500/550 pump,
If the lights on with no horrible noises and oil splashes out of a tappet cap the switch is duff
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline jakec

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Re: Oil Light came on while riding
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2020, 03:40:45 PM »
I read a lot of threads when doing the rebuild that it would be hard to prime so I totally crammed the whole thing full of assembly lube when I rebuilt.

I couldn't take off a tappet cover last night at the roadside because the tool kit wrench didn't offer enough leverage.

Should I try and start with tappet cover off before going to the trouble of changing oil and priming pump? I'm afraid to run it if there's no oil on the camshaft..

Also any advice to get the starter working? The motor grounds to engine right? and plugs into the 6 pin.. not much can go wrong it seems
1970 CB750 K0
1977 CB750 Chop
1997 XR650L

Offline bryanj

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Re: Oil Light came on while riding
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2020, 04:00:49 PM »
Try with cap off first, if it isnt working its already toast and if it is it saves you time.
Yes the starter grounds via case
No it is not fed from the 6 pin, there is a heavy wire direct from the solenoid which may have failed or starter button circuit failed
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline jakec

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Re: Oil Light came on while riding
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2020, 04:48:48 PM »
Ok, I just started for about 5-10 seconds and didn't see any oil splashing through the tappet cover. Normally I would get oil pressure light off the instant the bike started. Would I DEFINITELY see oil splashing out of the cover if there was oil delivery? Going to the store now in anticipation of dumping my oil.

Also, removed sprocket cover. Starter motor big lead is connected to to the solenoid, left post closest to the motor. There are other connections to switches (Y/R, G/R) but couldn't see where they were going (image seach shows they connect to the bottom of the unit). Battery lead I assume on the other post closer to battery. It's hard to inspect with the rubber hood covering everything.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2020, 04:51:04 PM by jakec »
1970 CB750 K0
1977 CB750 Chop
1997 XR650L

Offline minimo

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Re: Oil Light came on while riding
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2020, 07:53:23 PM »
First, with the starter issues.
Have you tried pulling the starter and connecting with alligator clips to a good battery? If it spins, it’s working, and it’s likely your solenoid needs cleaning/rebuilding/replacement. If it doesn’t spin, you may have to chase the issue, check for continuity from your switch to the starter; you might want to do this anyway to rule out the possibility, and there’s no cost to you (unless you don’t have a multimeter - $7 at Harbor Freight). If that checks out, we’ll, you might need to rebuild the starter.

On the oils levels.
I found that after an engine rebuild, there’s a significant decrease in oil level from saturation (between gears and all around). Also, after a rebuild, it’s good to have a catch container on the end of the hose connected to the top cover breather to see what the vapor is looking like (blow-by). If you get too much oil in the catch, then your rings might need more time to condition and wear into the cylinders. Did you cross-hatch the cylinders properly upon rebuild?

It’d be good to fill up the engine once more, keeping note of levels in between some miles.

On the Oil pressure light.
Have you popped the left side cover to inspect the oil pressure switch, as well as the connector and wire? These switches can and do go bad. They are also quite cheap to replace. Autozone has them - Durolast PS123, like $12. I’m 95% this will sort out your gauge light issue. Otherwise, check for any cracks in the wiring down and around there.


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Offline jakec

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Re: Oil Light came on while riding
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2020, 08:36:08 PM »
Unfortunately the issue is worse than that, I pulled the oil pump to see if it had ingested anything to block it up, it turns out yes there was oil shavings in the pump. Enough that you could feel resistance turning it by hand.

I pulled the filter and there was shavings there too. Finally the sump and some shavings there but less. I am a little confused because I thought the filter came before pump, so I’m not sure how there could be so much metal shavings inside the pump.
1970 CB750 K0
1977 CB750 Chop
1997 XR650L

Offline jakec

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Re: Oil Light came on while riding
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2020, 08:39:01 PM »
Photos of everything

https://imgur.com/a/z7Rr67L



1970 CB750 K0
1977 CB750 Chop
1997 XR650L

Offline minimo

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Re: Oil Light came on while riding
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2020, 08:41:15 PM »
Not uncommon after a rebuild.

Stick a magnet to the shavings? Aluminum or steel?


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Offline minimo

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Re: Oil Light came on while riding
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2020, 08:42:22 PM »
It’s good to cycle through the oil after a rebuild. I’d pull the bottom pan too. Tell us what you find there.


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Offline jakec

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Re: Oil Light came on while riding
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2020, 09:09:51 PM »
If you click the link I have photos of the oil pan as well. I did an oil change at 50 miles and there was some metal but the particles were tiny. These are much larger and caused scoring on inside of the oil pump. As you can see they basically clogged the pump.
1970 CB750 K0
1977 CB750 Chop
1997 XR650L

Offline bryanj

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Re: Oil Light came on while riding
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2020, 09:19:18 PM »
Something was reassembled wrongly im afraid, you are going to have to pull the engine and start again, in a workshop i would point blank refuse to do anything but strip
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline jakec

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Re: Oil Light came on while riding
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2020, 09:41:48 PM »
If something was assembled wrong why would it show the problem after almost 1,500 miles? Or do you think it’s gradual wear and this is accumulated metal shavings? Can you explain a bit more
1970 CB750 K0
1977 CB750 Chop
1997 XR650L

Offline minimo

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Re: Oil Light came on while riding
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2020, 10:00:52 PM »
Clean up everything, check for gap wear on the oil pump, thrown on fresh o-rings, button it all back up and pour in another batch of oil (Shell Rotella Diesel Oil from Home Depot isn’t bad) to get some more rides in. Check oil levels more frequently this time.


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Offline jakec

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Re: Oil Light came on while riding
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2020, 10:19:36 PM »
I was thinking I will at least take off the clutch side too and check in there, clutch is original plates and some slipping lately so maybe clutch plates broken up?

I need to post a pic of the oil pump scoring, but you can see a little damage to main drive shaft and the gear that goes on it.
1970 CB750 K0
1977 CB750 Chop
1997 XR650L

Offline minimo

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Re: Oil Light came on while riding
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2020, 10:51:16 PM »
Yes, i meant to mention inspect the clutch basket and the gear shift Mech, as well as kick start Mech while you’re at it


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Offline minimo

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Re: Oil Light came on while riding
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2020, 11:03:31 PM »
My guess and fear for your bike is your piston ring(s) may have broken. This might also explain the loss of oil.

Did you get a chance to run a magnet over these shards?

Did you rebuild installing new pistons? CruzinImage (via eBay) by any chance? Rings too? Real sharp edges off the bat on those parts from them, from what I’ve seen and experienced. You have to fine-sand the edges to prevent the rings from catching and getting stuck on stroke or even installation, even with lube.

I kinda see peeling this engine back apart in your future.


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Offline minimo

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Re: Oil Light came on while riding
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2020, 11:06:15 PM »
Also, any noticeable loss of power (on load) when the oil pressure light came on?


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Offline jakec

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Re: Oil Light came on while riding
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2020, 11:10:47 PM »
Yes to pistons, yes cruzin image (didn’t have any problems installing them though, they did seem scratchy going in but I thought that was due to the cross hatch on the bores). I did notice a loss of power but I switched to reserve thinking low gas, pulled into the gas station and filled up 2.6 gallons (which is the exact amount I always put in when I hit reserve). Then right after the gas station the light came on. You think I lost an oil ring basically?
1970 CB750 K0
1977 CB750 Chop
1997 XR650L

Offline minimo

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Re: Oil Light came on while riding
« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2020, 11:24:37 PM »
Yeah, that loss of power is from a busted ring = low compression.

One way to find out for sure.

You got this.


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Offline bryanj

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Re: Oil Light came on while riding
« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2020, 11:38:00 PM »
That amount of debris is more than i found on a 120,000 mile hard used 750.
Someting has to have physicaly broken to cause that and any more engine run is only going to make it worse and even more expensive.
The pump is always first in line and is the only part of the engine that uses "dirty" oil, they are fairly robust BUT if that is steel debris i will be honest and say you need another one.
I duspect the sump filter is totaly clogged as well and by the sizes of the particles i can see damaged as that size should not get through the screen.
Did you by any chance have the cases blasted? Dont forget just how tiny the metering jets to the top end are. As i said before if you brought that into a shop i was working in i would point blank refuse to do ANYTHING except a TOTAL STRIPDOWN and so should any Mechanic(note i didnt say technician) that has any pride in his reputation
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline jakec

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Re: Oil Light came on while riding
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2020, 12:05:39 AM »
Did you view the link to the album I posted? I have a photo of the sump screen which was actually pretty clean.
1970 CB750 K0
1977 CB750 Chop
1997 XR650L