Author Topic: Oil Light came on while riding (Read 6706 times)

minimo · « **Reply #50 on:** September 23, 2020, 06:40:34 AM »

Did you make sure that the “IN” marks on the cruzinmage pistons all faced the intake/carb side?

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754 · « **Reply #51 on:** September 23, 2020, 08:34:00 AM »

The rotors do not really look like the debris went thru them.
If non metallic.. maybe a chunk of casting flash ?

Kevin D · « **Reply #52 on:** September 23, 2020, 09:02:15 AM »

Jake, is this the same cb400 used on your recent 600 miler on the interstate at 80-90 mph and 100F temps?

jakec · « **Reply #53 on:** September 23, 2020, 09:27:51 AM »

Yes that’s this bike.

Tim2005 · « **Reply #54 on:** September 23, 2020, 10:19:54 AM »

This is odd. I don't see anything that suggests where your missing 2+litres of oil went. Were any of the exhaust ports or downpipes oily inside?

The oil pump problem could be an underlying or entirely separate thing, or could be a result of the loss of oil.

jakec · « **Reply #55 on:** September 23, 2020, 10:39:18 AM »

From bottom of dipstick to top is only about 1 qt (demonstrates when I put 1 qt in at roadside). The engine only ran for a few seconds without pressure, and wouldn’t build pressure afterward. So I don’t think the lack of pressure was actually caused by low oil. I think it was caused by the metal shavings in the pump.

jakec · « **Reply #56 on:** September 23, 2020, 10:54:47 AM »

The only weird things I can remember about the engine:

The bike would vibrate right around 7k rpm. I used to have this on my 550 at 6k rpm.

Also, if you were in the mid range and leaned the bike over quite far, like turning out of a parking lot or something, there would be a unique vibration. Didn't feel bad just different.

Finally, there were a couple times (2-3) where I was out on the highway accidentally in too high gear, and the clutch slipped (guess I was lugging it). I'm really careful about lugging it though so this only ever happened on flat highway where I was in 5th and I should have been in 4th.

Kevin D · « **Reply #57 on:** September 23, 2020, 02:28:33 PM »

Jake, I have been missing your posts over at the 20/100/2020. I guess that big ride will be waiting a bit.
What’s the inside of the oil pump body look like?

jakec · « **Reply #58 on:** September 23, 2020, 02:40:36 PM »

Kevin, I can probably still still finish 20 rides as I have the 350 I can ride although it was supposed to get a top end this winter. I had a 2 week trip to the border planned but it got cancelled due to the fires. If I had gone on that trip this would have happened on the first day most likely (happened on mile 85 of my ride this sunday). So I'm actually glad that the trip was cancelled.

The inside of the oil pump has some circular scoring from the rotor going around with the metal flakes in there. I'm not sure how bad it is, like if it could be polished. I don't have a photo of it right now.

rotortiller · « **Reply #59 on:** September 23, 2020, 02:54:45 PM »

Might be something stupid like a clutch plate tab broken off and chewed up by the xmission, then again maybe not. Tear into the side cover, then if you don't find anything, me thinks it's time to get serious and blast. lol

bryanj · « **Reply #60 on:** September 23, 2020, 03:09:12 PM »

The rotors would not overly worry me as they are fairly overspeced BUT the pin, hole and rotor drive damage i have never seen before in 40 yrs. Personaly i would source another pump plus strip and scrupulously clean the motor

Redline it · « **Reply #61 on:** September 23, 2020, 04:17:46 PM »

that's a bummer. on what you can do to prevent as much wear on contaminated oil especially if you just did the top end,
every time you ride it and more if you want, check the oil, by pulling the dipstic and look at it smell it and rub some between your fingers, sometimes when it warm too. and check the air intake right in front of the filter, take filter out and you can feel if there's dust getting past. on new work like that yeah, keep a close eye on it.

something always comes out of the blue to hit one thing I overlook. i had a bike in the backyard uncovered for 30 yrs, broke a ring riding 180miles a day on my 400, and without looking into how many possible miles on the back yard bike, put it that night, and rode it. thinkin it was a well worn in bike i didn't baby it. and what got me was somewhere i put a deep filter housing on it. and i'm not sure when i did but found out not long ago it was not holding the filter against it's spot. to make matters worse, is when i found out the motor only had 2000 miles on it. even though i changed oil every 1000 miles the oil wasn't running through the filter. whick kind of sucks. i'm just hoping it was within the last year or 2 that i put the wrong cover on, instead of when i swapped the motors. i kept seeing crap in the oil i'd dump, not every time, so i'd figure i must of dropped something in the waste oil pan. how i found out was 1 day i was looking at the motor, and like someone tapping me on the shoulder, was like "no way," i cry every time i think about that.

changing oil every 1000 miles, the bike uses 1/4 of a quart. and i don't keep it topped off. i should start. that could buy some time if i had a large oil leak i might catch it in time. riding with low oil like a quart low, theoretically should be ok in most cases, but without oil for a second or 2 could be then end. oh and that hone job, that's not too good looking. you can see high spots or what the hone job did making the low spots. hones and ridge reamers are very destructive if done wrong, or if they're beat up.

jakec · « **Reply #62 on:** September 24, 2020, 06:19:51 PM »

Ok so I’m now at the point where I have everything off the engine that I would take off before taking it out of the frame.

I removed clutch, no missing tabs on inside or outside of plates. Removed kickstart, starter motor, all 3 dead eng plugs and inspected them as well as looked inside the holes. So far I haven’t found any more metal flakes. I also inspected TTR new cam chain tensioner. It is still operating properly. So far I haven’t seen anything that’s damaged nor have I found any other metal flakes. The oil that came out of the oilway dead end plugs wasn’t perfectly clean (no debris). Also no metal in the vertical passageways.

What I’m wondering is is it possible that the oil pump somehow cannibalized itself? And could possibly have self contained the metal shavings since it stopped pumping? I think this is possible because the screen is clear and comes before the pump in the circulation. And then to the filter, which also had flakes.

Attached are better photos of the oil pump damage

jakec · « **Reply #63 on:** September 24, 2020, 06:41:40 PM »

Also I tested my starter motor on the bench and it works.

jakec · « **Reply #64 on:** September 24, 2020, 06:58:30 PM »

Example of metal shavings from the filter cover. Not magnetic

754 · « **Reply #65 on:** September 24, 2020, 07:03:03 PM »

Not anything stuck to the magnet, not even a few bits ?

RAFster122s · « **Reply #66 on:** September 24, 2020, 07:03:17 PM »

Looks like your oil pump housing is scored and scarred up, was it assembled correctly? Maybe a bushing or thrust washer missing allowing the pump rotor to scrape the housing?

jakec · « **Reply #67 on:** September 24, 2020, 07:25:08 PM »

No nothing stuck to the magnet at all.

It is possible I did something wrong but the pump is so simple, only 4 parts, I don’t see how you could put it together wrong. When I assembled it it was really smooth to rotate by hand.

minimo · « **Reply #68 on:** September 24, 2020, 10:33:56 PM »

Those shavings don’t look aluminum either, more like cement or brick because they appear muted. Aluminum shavings typically appear as shiny bits when found in the oil pan, like panning for gold.

Is it possible those bits are sifted media from your blasting of the engine?

While you’re in the mode to rebuild, are you going to run musical wire or some long pipe cleaners down and through the oil galleys, with spurts of compressed air?

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754 · « **Reply #69 on:** September 25, 2020, 01:10:59 AM »

I think aluminium would get like that tumbled around for a bit. . Just like gold nuggets look..
Wouldn't hurt to see what the blast material looks like, in that size. .. it might match..

The slightly scarred thrust face on side of gear, is there a shim between it and the body on the parts list ? Looks like it was pushing with a bit of pressure while turning.. I don't know if it matters.,

I should try to dig out that lower end...?

jakec · « **Reply #70 on:** September 25, 2020, 10:02:26 AM »

The shavings are definitely metal. Also there is no parts diagram for the oil pump, the whole thing is one part.

You guys still think I should take engine the rest of the way apart?

754 · « **Reply #71 on:** September 25, 2020, 10:29:36 AM »

Send the blaster a pic, ask if he thinks it's media.
Was the pump blasted ? If not...it may have come through from a blasted passage..

jakec · « **Reply #72 on:** September 25, 2020, 10:33:36 AM »

The pump wasn't blasted. I will send a pic

Nurse Julie · « **Reply #73 on:** September 25, 2020, 11:09:51 AM »

These pics may help you. This is the complete oil pump stripped from my 400/4. My engine had 3 destroyed pistons but the oil screen had done an excellent job of picking up all the swarfe. All my oil pump components still measured well within spec and little to no damage or scoring. I fitted a complete set of new Viton O rings and re assembled.

jakec · « **Reply #74 on:** September 25, 2020, 11:40:21 AM »

Thanks, yeah that is how I assembled mine, the only questionable part is the peg at the left side that gets pressed in by the spring. But we both installed the same way.

I heard back from the guy that did the vapor blasting and he said the debris could be the blasting media although it would be much smaller. He said maybe if it congealed with oil it could be that big

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Author Topic: Oil Light came on while riding (Read 6706 times)