Topic: Terry's new new redneck K0 "Special"..........

[PeWe]

Compression in the bike is not only a choice of octane, carb jetting too.

I read that increased compression will run richer which I interpret as higher compression need leaner mix.
https://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/compression.html


I have noticed pinging when running too lean so a balance there.

Your Harley's jetting might work better with the quicker exploding lower octane? Carb might be rich?

More chat about octane
https://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/octane.html

[Terry in Australia]

Yeah, the Harley hates high octane fuel Per, runs like sh1t on it, but the compression ratio is pretty low, (9:1) whereas both Honda's (the K0 and K2, both probably 11:1 or higher) hate low octane fuel. What messes with my theory though, is the Triumph Rocket III has a low compression ratio too (8.7:1) and the owners manual says to use a minimum of 95 RON, and it get's much better fuel economy if I use 98, than 91? It's all computer managed electronic fuel injection, so not sure why it works in the opposite of my other bikes, but there you go, there are exceptions to every rule.....    

[RAFster122s]

Higher octane fuels do not ignite as easily? They burn slower. Pinging is highly destructive and the heat from pinging and the lean burn can burn exhaust valves and hole pistons. Hole pistons are quite destructive as the molten piston material will wreck the combustion chamber of the head and often the valves and  excess material will scar the liners and it isn’t kind to the bottom end either.

Friend did a test with his son and a old carbureted car with our 85 octane and the 89 octane mid grade and the 91 or 93 octane high test premium. Lots of stations will not offer more than regular and premium today along with diesel. For fuel economy they found the car wanted low octane fuel but it had highest performance in 0-60 and 50-80 mph acceleration tests running premium fuel.

There are lots of different brands and it is largely the additive packages that distinguish the brands as the base fuel is identical for each grade. It is the additive packages that help the fuel burn properties and their cleaners, etc.
Shell and Chevron in this country have some of the best additive packages and using them in fuel injected cars they tend to have far fewer fuel injection related issues as the cars age. Chevron’s fuel injection cleaner Techron is hard to beat and using it’s premium fuel will have the best injection cleaning and burning properties in my opinion for high performance fuel injection motors that need premium fuel, In My Opinion. BP, British Petroleum, fuel in my experience is junk and my cars would run awful with it and fuel economy was lower as well. In the winter I had more problems if I tried to run BP fuel.

The oxygenated fuels have a summer package and a winter package as well geared for emissions and operating Temperatures in the US as well.

But, Chevron charges premium prices for their fuels as well for their reputation and their additive packages, It is hard to beat their fuel injection cleaner helping keep fuel injectors operating well and burning cleanly. Dirty injectors do not spray their fan pattern properly and atomize the fuel as well and this leads to performance problems. Burning cheap cut rate fuel costs you in the long run. I would use good fuel brands and use Techron Fuel Injector clean in a tank of fuel prior to an oil change every six months unless driving a lot every year. I typical was driving 20-25k miles some years and above the US average of 15k miles a year. Insurance companies base their rates upon your annual mileage as the more you are behind the wheel the higher the risk in their experience. Issue is this does not translate to safety behind the wheel. Some people are not safe behind the wheel when sober as they do not pay attention to what traffic is doing reading traffic far ahead as well as around them and anticipate issues and dangers. They are not observant. As a result they tend to have accidents. Some of my relatives I won’t drive with, my sister in law is one of them, and my brother in law rarely drives as my younger sister will drive instead of him. My little sister can handle the big F250 and their big travel trailer very well but he cannot back it up and put it into parking spots to safe his life even with assistance. I won’t ride with either my sister in law driving and my brother in law driving if I can help it. You would think they could learn better driving habits but they do not.  Some people whom are older become quite hazardous behind the wheel as they age and as a result their accident rates go way up as a senior citizen driver when their eyesight and reactions begin to dull with advanced age.
Usually excessive number of accidents and or tickets result in the courts taking people’s licenses away. It certainly causes them to have very high insurance rates until they lose the privilege to drive.

In very big cities in America many do not drive or own a car, using public transportation and some of these people have a license and then go on trips by plane and rent cars and buy the insurance with those rental cars, that is a very scary thing in my opinion.

That’s my $0.05 on the octane and fuel and few related topics.

I enjoy long trips and would take them often and my commute was many miles and I have lived in or very close to large cities most of my life but grew up in the country. So, while I do not enjoy congested city driving I know how to do it and it doesn’t stress me out as badly as it will those whom haven’t lived in places where they didn’t have to do it.

[Terry in Australia]

Yep, I agree about BP David, their "98 RON" fuel is bullsh1t, more like 91, my Harley Sportster hates all "98 RON" fuel other than BP "Ultimate", which is more than likely 91 RON. The problem with this world is that people/companies are allowed to lie to our faces with no repercussions, so we just don't know how much we're being lied to. You only have to look at recent issues in your country's capital to see that liars are revered by their brain dead followers, regardless of how ridiculous their lies become.

It's pathetic, but true, that lots of "patriots" are going to jail for the rest of their lives, for believing that the lies spruked by one yellow bellied real estate shyster held some modicum of truth. That's probably why personal experience is more important to me than published "data".



 

[RAFster122s]

Those who stormed the capital and attacked the guards,police and others were not patriots. Thugs and low lifes, just like the crowd who did the "mostly peaceful" (according to the lying media) demonstrators who plundered, pillage, rioted,and destroyed so much of numerous American cities this past year.
Lock up every damn one of them from both.

Idiots who stormed capital forgot the important distinction that they were committing federal crimes, federal crimes punishment is much tougher.

America is not going to survive given its path and trajectory...too many rat bastards like China's CCP out to make us pay for making life difficult for them. Biden is ill equipped to fix much of anything and he is delusional to think he can. He has in less than 60 days proven a return to Diplomacy doesnt work too well with...
N Korea
China
Taliban
The childrens crusade leaving central america

God help us...

[PeWe]

Thread warning when flagging for and solving other obvious issues than CB related...

[grcamna2]

Yep, I agree about BP David, their "98 RON" fuel is bullsh1t, more like 91, my Harley Sportster hates all "98 RON" fuel other than BP "Ultimate", which is more than likely 91 RON. The problem with this world is that people/companies are allowed to lie to our faces with no repercussions, so we just don't know how much we're being lied to. You only have to look at recent issues in your country's capital to see that liars are revered by their brain dead followers, regardless of how ridiculous their lies become.

It's pathetic, but true, that lots of "patriots" are going to jail for the rest of their lives, for believing that the lies spruked by one yellow bellied real estate shyster held some modicum of truth. That's probably why personal experience is more important to me than published "data".



 

I've experienced enough people 'lying for $'.. I'm now ready for folks to start 'telling the unbiased truth for the correct reasons' and that doesn't have anything to do with $.. 

[Little_Phil]

Terry, read your thread builds every day or so and they are very entertaining and appreciated. Just to say we only really have 95 RON (E5 and E10 coming soon) and 98 RON (there are a couple sold with slightly higher), but most put the cheapest we can find in the Hondas (supermarkets cheapest usually) and no complaints.
But as PeWe says a thread warning here...but I'm with you Terry after ......

[PeWe]

My thread warning was not about fuel...more about the comments about later developments in the world by defectives I'm sure most people agree about....those who disagree will change their mind when understanding...

Shell V-Power here is E5, no problems.
E10 could not be used due to the problems in winter, start issues what I could read in car magazines.

E85 something different, who use that? That was just a freud to buy cars cheaper but fill them up with the working juice with min amount of ethanol. Ethanol should be used by the driver, not vehicle!!
Park and drink!!

[grcamna2]

My thread warning was not about fuel...more about the comments about later developments in the world by defectives I'm sure most people agree about....those who disagree will change their mind when understanding...

Shell V-Power here is E5, no problems.
E10 could not be used due to the problems in winter, start issues what I could read in car magazines.

E85 something different, who use that? That was just a freud to buy cars cheaper but fill them up with the working juice with min amount of ethanol. Ethanol should be used by the driver, not vehicle!!
Park and drink!!

Lol    I use 87 octane here,everywhere there is only E10 and I think it's horrible.    I would like to purchase a used 25 gal. automobile fuel tank,the size that fits in the trunk of my Volvo 240.I would drive to a fuel station over in Nevada,just over the border from CA.,fill it up with Ethanol-Free gasoline for a fair price:I want to use it to fill-up only my motorcycle.

[BenelliSEI]

Locally, we can still buy “Super” with no ethanol (a a premium price). BUT, when at the pumps you electronically select the grade. Last year I noticed the first 4-5 litres that come out still has the green tint of the Ethanol laced (up to 10-15%) fuel! Now I take my fuel jugs in my old JEEP and fire the first 5-10 litres into the old hack, then fill my 5 gallon jugs!

[RAFster122s]

You would be stuck with the 25 gallon extra bomb of fuel in your trunk at 25 gallons * around 6 pounds per gallon of petrol/gasoline and you are looking at 150 pounds of sloshing liquid in an unwieldy container.  You won't be easily lifting it out of the trunk.

[grcamna2]

You would be stuck with the 25 gallon extra bomb of fuel in your trunk at 25 gallons * around 6 pounds per gallon of petrol/gasoline and you are looking at 150 pounds of sloshing liquid in an unwieldy container.  You won't be easily lifting it out of the trunk.

I'll purchase a few 5gal cans,be better-off.

[WhyNot2]

That's what I do. 2, 5 gal cans and 1, 2-1/2 gal filled, then use that for the bikes and mowers.

[BenelliSEI]

You would be stuck with the 25 gallon extra bomb of fuel in your trunk at 25 gallons * around 6 pounds per gallon of petrol/gasoline and you are looking at 150 pounds of sloshing liquid in an unwieldy container.  You won't be easily lifting it out of the trunk.

Sorry..... all my numbers are in litres. That’s a gallon in the JEEP tank and 5 (22 litres). gallons in the jug...

[Terry in Australia]

You would be stuck with the 25 gallon extra bomb of fuel in your trunk at 25 gallons * around 6 pounds per gallon of petrol/gasoline and you are looking at 150 pounds of sloshing liquid in an unwieldy container.  You won't be easily lifting it out of the trunk.

Sorry..... all my numbers are in litres. That’s a gallon in the JEEP tank and 5 (22 litres). gallons in the jug...

Here's a question to further confuse everyone John, is a Canadian gallon 3.7 litres (US Gallon) or 4.54 litres? (Imperial Gallon) I assume that Canada shares a lot of similarities with the US, it's closest neighbour, but also has some British heritage, like Oz?

[BenelliSEI]

Canada was Imperial gallon.... I still call my gas cans “ 5 gallon” but really they are 22 litres. We changed over many years ago. Total confusion. My son (43 years old) is totally metricated....

[Terry in Australia]

Yes it's almost summer, I can almost feel that sweet sunshine, thawing out this heart of mine....... With apologies to the late, great Billy Thorpe. So as part of my "Freedom Rides" program, today I dragged the poor neglected old K0 out of the garage for it's first outing since March 20th. I first drove over to the gas station and bought 6 litres of 98 RON fuel and dumped that into the tank, and all the concerns that I've had about it running rough on 8 month old fuel were unnecessary, it started on the 2nd kick, and ran like a champ.

K0 Monday 1 Nov 2021 c by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

I filled out my log book and headed to the Shell station in Kalkallo to fill the tank right up with fresh 98 RON gas, then up the Hume Freeway to Beveridge, across to Eden Park, Whittlesea, Kinglake, and Yea (pronounced "Yay") where I stopped for a late lunch.

K0 Monday 1 Nov 2021 i by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

I was disappointed that the little fish and chip shop in Yea looks like it's gone bust. There were a few other places to eat open so I went to the bakery and then sat under a tree and ate my pie while admiring the old girl.

K0 Monday 1 Nov 2021 k by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr 

I stopped for a piss behind the 2009 Bushfire memorial (is it wrong to piss behind a bushfire memorial? I mean, I didn't piss on the memorial, and I was busting?) and took a pic.

K0 Monday 1 Nov 2021 n by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

K0 Monday 1 Nov 2021 m by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

For some reason I had an urge to take a closer look at the engine, and noticed this:

K0 Monday 1 Nov 2021 q by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Damn, I would often get a few spots of oil on my alternator cover on a long ride, but could never work out where the leak was, but now it's pretty obvious that the cam cover gasket is weeping a tad. I don't want to try cranking down the JIS screw any more, or replacing it with an allen screw, I'll just wipe the oil off, that dribble that you see in the pic is after 120+ miles, so it's not a lot.

Now being old and having a little dementia isn't always great. The speedo on the K0 is in MPH, so by the time I got to Yea I'd done over 100 miles, and should have filled up the tank before I headed the 40 miles back to Whittlesea, but for some reason I was thinking that I'd only done 100 Kilometers, because the K2 bitsa has a KPH speedo and I'm more used to riding that bike, but anyway, I figured that I should be able to ride back to Whittlesea, just. Surprisingly I rolled into Whittlesea with 141 miles on the odo, and I hadn't even hit reserve? That's not bad for 120 mains, with the needles raised one notch.

What was even more surprising, was the bike only took 10.14 litres (2.74 US Gallons, or 2.23 Imperial Gallons) to fill the tank right to the top, so believe it or not, I was getting 63.22 miles per (Imperial) gallon or 51.45 Miles per US gallon, or 20 Km per litre, that's as good as my Harley 1200 Sportster! (well, the Harley only likes the cheaper 91 RON fuel, so I guess it's more fuel efficient, but whatever) Anyway, as anyone with an old bike knows, gas stations are dangerous places if you're in a hurry, and a couple my age wanted to talk about old bikes and old Volkswagens, I told them that I'd built the K0 over a couple of months late last year as a Covid-19 Lockdown project, and they told me that they'd done the same with their old Bug, but other cars were waiting for us to piss off, so I did.

I rode back home and squeezed the bike back into the garage, after doing a total of 183 miles. (293 Km) The K0 had run like a new bike all day, and I'd had a ball. The riding position is really comfy, but anything over 70 MPH is a little uncomfortable due to the "Wind Sock" effect. No matter, 70 is as fast as I'm allowed to go, so it'll keep me legal. All in all, a good day.

K0 Monday 1 Nov 2021 u by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

[Alan F.]

Children of the Sun, eh Terry?

That was a good read to begin my day, thanks again for having us along. We've got a sunny week ahead here, forecasts for the week peak at 49-58F I'll hopefully be able to spend some time wrenching if my on-call cooperates.

[MauiK3]

Fun ride, great bike

[grcamna2]

Fun ride, great bike

G'Day Terry,I'm pleased you're getting some rides in,after all those days of lock-down you've had;you can finally enjoy the results of your labors on all those bikes.I think the cam cover on your K0 was weeping at that one spot because it was sad you hadn't ridden the bike in all that time:feeling neglected.  Lol

[BenelliSEI]

Terry..... such a good looking ride. I am determined to make my Sandcast a nice clean restoration that I can ride like this. I noticed your non stock ignition wires. What coils are you running here?

[Terry in Australia]

G'Day John, thanks mate, I'm trying to decide between riding the K0 or working on the Z1-B today, so far the ride is winning. When I built the bike I installed a new Kokusan electronic ignition, Dyna 3 Ohm coils and Bosch 8mm leads. So far it's been uber reliable, and great fun to ride.

[Alan F.]

I think it'd be fun to duplicate Terry's setup, maybe my K8 or K3 needs a bore and 1st over CB77 pistons too? I don't have the same carbs but will the later roundtops perform much differently? I forget what cam you're running, are they available? Kokusan ignitions are available from CMSNL and on eBay for $140-150US....

I've had this idea before, I guess it's time to make a list and find some sources. I'm just thinking out loud. I'll go through this thread and find the info here.

I think I could have one up & running for '25.

[Terry in Australia]

Thanks Alan, my K0 has stock bores, which were in surprisingly good condition, so I just shoved the CB77 pistons in, and it has tons of compression and loved to rev. It's a stock K0 cam which I think Hondaman said has a little more lift than stock, and the carbs are just standard 4 cable K0 carbs with 120 mains, needles raised one notch and a K&N filter.

With the electronic ignition and Delkevic pipe it doesn't seem to run rich, and if I'm very frugal with the throttle hand, has returned 63 MPG (Imperial gallon, 4.54 litres as opposed to 3.7 litres in a US gallon) but usually returns around 40-50 MPG depending on how naughty I feel when I ride it.