Author Topic: My (T)rusty old firebird. (Read 2485 times)

Don R · « **on:** November 01, 2020, 06:59:38 PM »

I've been building a 1969 Firebird with Art Morrison front and rear subframes connected by me to make a full frame under the unibody. The front has C6 corvette a arms and brakes, the rear has an Edsel style round back 9" ford with a nodular Daytona center section and posi. The rear disc brakes are 78 mark V. It will have 18" wheels 8" wide in front and 11" in back. This weekend I got the motor mounts moved in the chassis (Chevy to Pontiac) and fitted the Gear Vendors OD that Scottly fixed me up with, to the T400. Next is to assemble the powertrain and mock up the rest of the driveline so I can order a driveshaft.
A few years ago I put on the heads. Of course they are backwards. The frost plug and heater nipple are on the wrong ends. It's never been started but I assume the head gaskets are toast by now.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/TznkYQfKZHWf9vtz5
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Rf8mL96VA5m43AkE9
https://photos.app.goo.gl/2j1XrhdpMwbGsL8M7

The bolt is in the old location, the other hole is the new location for the motor mount bolt. 1 1/4" to the pass side and 1/2" down.

CBJoe · « **Reply #1 on:** November 02, 2020, 07:06:24 AM »

Hey Don...looking good. I'm very curious how the Gear Vendors Overdrive works out for you. We currently have 3.42 gears in the firebird with TH400 and thats not conducive to highway driving.

I really like the idea of how the Gear Vendors works and would prefer to retain the TH400 but still have overdrive functionality.

Don R · « **Reply #2 on:** November 02, 2020, 08:48:20 AM »

I had the 3.50 gear, it did seem awfully buzzy at 70-80 mph. It might be a while before it's running.
I sold some of the original parts way too cheap. It's like having a bunch of 750 K0 stuff and not realizing other people need it. I learned after the fact my disc brake front end is the same as 69 Z28. Should have been worth $$$$$, was sold for $ L0L!
If I had do overs back to 1970 I'd buy a beater to drive and keep this car dry, we just wore it out. I'm sanding the pimples and flashing off the Turbo 400 today. Man, you could snag your shirt on that thing.

CBJoe · « **Reply #3 on:** November 02, 2020, 05:23:18 PM »

Hey Don....maybe i missed the history here...how long have you had this Firebird in your stable?

Don R · « **Reply #4 on:** November 02, 2020, 05:50:55 PM »

I got it used in 1970. I traded in a 65 VW Squareback, two friends claim to have owned it first, I had breakfast with them both and they can't even figure it out. I remember the one guy trading it in on a new 70 monte carlo.
Then he admitted his wife hit a fire hydrant with it, but also says he owned two that year. Jeez. All these years of him wanting it back and restored. He remembers it having AC too. Imagine how silly I felt never having turned it on.
I posted a pic on the pontiac midwest connection FB page. There's a huge discussion about transmissions 200, 5 speeds, 700R4, etc.

I realized today that the short block of the 400 motor is from a 53,000 mile 72 Catalina, so this must be the Bird that swallowed a Cat.

Stev-o · « **Reply #5 on:** November 03, 2020, 08:59:55 AM »

Love the old F-Birds, had a '68 in high school.

Subscibed...

Don R · « **Reply #6 on:** November 03, 2020, 07:19:28 PM »

I pulled the heads back off and turned them around to the correct sides. The cam looked rusty as heck. I think it's just the grease I coated it with years ago. I pulled it and slipped it into a pvc plastic tube with some ATF and PB Blaster to soak. The challenge will be finding the correct bolts, nuts and brackets, I had two motors apart, was putting one in the car when the $$ was too short. It's sat for years.

Don R · « **Reply #7 on:** November 08, 2020, 03:29:47 PM »

I've cleaned the cam off and re-oiled it, I'll used some proper assembly lube this go around. I'd love to build something with a crazy intake but will proceed with the minimum cost until I see if I can afford to finish the rest of it. I'll be using aftermarket AC so I'll check to see which brackets are best to work with the Sanden compressor brackets.

scottly · « **Reply #8 on:** November 08, 2020, 08:59:57 PM »

Quote from: Don R on November 02, 2020, 05:50:55 PM

I realized today that the short block of the 400 motor is from a 53,000 mile 72 Catalina, so this must be the Bird that swallowed a Cat.

Hey Don, I forgot to mention that my neighbor has a 400 block, heads, and crank from a '67 Gran Prix, which would all need to be refurbished. The heads are "670" large valve parts, which he told me were somewhat prized? He would be willing to sell it all for $400 plus shipping.

Don R · « **Reply #9 on:** November 09, 2020, 09:32:09 AM »

Quote from: scottly on November 08, 2020, 08:59:57 PM

Quote from: Don R on November 02, 2020, 05:50:55 PM

I realized today that the short block of the 400 motor is from a 53,000 mile 72 Catalina, so this must be the Bird that swallowed a Cat.
Hey Don, I forgot to mention that my neighbor has a 400 block, heads, and crank from a '67 Gran Prix, which would all need to be refurbished. The heads are "670" large valve parts, which he told me were somewhat prized? He would be willing to sell it all for $400 plus shipping.

That's good price, I'm trying to not buy extra although if it was close I'd be tempted. A hoarding habit runs in my family, I think it comes from our parents living through the depression and a world war. Dad used to re-box his old spark plugs in case a new one went bad. My brother picked a cb500 windjammer bracket out of my scrap pile, later he bought a 500 and asked if I have one. I said no, but you do.

Don R · « **Reply #10 on:** November 23, 2020, 07:55:55 PM »

67 would be the meaty block back before they went thin on the castings. My heads are #48's, maybe too high on compression and also have the big valves. If the comp. is an issue I'll buy better gas. IDK.
I have two sets of 304 stainless steel exhaust pipe ordered, one builder kit and one X pipe kit. Hopefully it will get the exhaust all the way out and wind around the overdrive. I'll still need to order manifold connectors and mufflers, I'm thinking 30" stainless steel rock wool glass packs. I still miss the old glass pack sound. It it's still loud I'll add two 12"ers in the 18" exhaust tips. It used to idle like a boat with a water exhaust. A buddy of mine used to follow me to the car after work to just listen to it idle.

Don R · « **Reply #11 on:** November 27, 2020, 09:37:30 PM »

I got the motor mounts squared away and put the engine, trans and overdrive in.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Y964swq2ptRAhP3G6

scottly · « **Reply #12 on:** November 27, 2020, 09:43:52 PM »

Don, did you re-fill the OD fluid? I never did find any fill plug, only the drain...

Don R · « **Reply #13 on:** November 27, 2020, 10:14:24 PM »

Quote from: scottly on November 27, 2020, 09:43:52 PM

Don, did you re-fill the OD fluid? I never did find any fill plug, only the drain...

This is all just a mock up to make the exhaust and driveshaft. I did fill it, but first cleaned the sump, it just had a tiny amount of shadow dirt in it. I just poured it through the hole under the plate on top. The deep sump is for trucks and motorhomes. GV said I can remove it if I buy a $70 plate. I think it will clear the exhaust fine. I'll drain it and refill it before use. I managed to spill a bit of it before it got assembled but thought it would be best to have some in it. I could also buy a shift computer but will use a shift knob with a button on it.
I remember freshening the trans twice but can't say for sure who did it the second time. It's probably due again. Was shifting fine when the old engine let go though.

Don R · « **Reply #14 on:** November 28, 2020, 09:41:00 PM »

https://photos.app.goo.gl/iiCwD167sRBKesjZA

https://photos.app.goo.gl/igbWHWS7owqSmy7h6

My buddy with the Hot rod body shop came by, he thinks repair to this body would cost a bit more than buying a new one. That's what I was afraid of.

grcamna2 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 21, 2021, 11:03:41 AM »

I like your 69' FireBird Don

a work in Progress but I can tell you're giving it the Full Treatment

Don R · « **Reply #16 on:** February 22, 2021, 05:58:38 PM »

My Strange engineering front coil over shocks should have been delivered today, I won't be here most of the day tomorrow to sign for them. I've been under the car all afternoon making two rolling offset exhaust pipe fittings from 2.5" stainless steel.
The band jumped off the band saw twice so I changed it and tuned up the saw a little, it works a lot better now.
Almost a blessing in disguise.

grcamna2 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 22, 2021, 07:37:20 PM »

Quote from: Don R on February 22, 2021, 05:58:38 PM

My Strange engineering front coil over shocks should have been delivered today, I won't be here most of the day tomorrow to sign for them. I've been under the car all afternoon making two rolling offset exhaust pipe fittings from 2.5" stainless steel.
The band jumped off the band saw twice so I changed it and tuned up the saw a little, it works a lot better now.
Almost a blessing in disguise.

The band saw is a very nice shop tool,the kind of thing that you don't give a 2nd thought to when you go to use it.I love when I can use one that's been maintained.

Don R · « **Reply #18 on:** February 23, 2021, 03:19:23 PM »

This is a green china made el cheapo drop band saw that someone gave to me nearly unused. He borrowed a great carburetor that I never got back so I'm calling it even. I stood up the top side and made an aluminum table for the saw. I considered not fixing it since I've seen the motor smoke on an average cut. This seems to be working well now so I'm glad I didn't junk it.

Don R · « **Reply #19 on:** February 26, 2021, 08:59:15 PM »

I got the front coil over shocks mounted, sat it back on the tire stands and it sits really good, I'm seeing just over an inch of tire between the fender and rim, this is with the engine trans and od unit in but no accessories, front bumper assembly glass or interior. This is with the preload adjusters fully down. I'll need a scratchproof wrench of some kind.

grcamna2 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 26, 2021, 09:48:56 PM »

Don,I had a 69' GTO with a smashed-in nose for a little bit back in the 70's:400 w/ 4-speed.I remember that 'endura' rubber type bumper being Big $.. I never did get one.I traded the car for 1968 Dodge Coronet 440 R/T convertible(Oh,I wish I still had it)that was seized from snow going down the manifold (this dope who owned it left the carb off through the Winter back in Ct.!)and I didn't have the $ at the time to rebuild it because I was working for my biological Father..
The Firebird has that center grille with the chrome bumper around it.Do the outside parts that surround both sets of headlights also have that same type of urethane bumper/protection as the 69' GTO had ?

CBJoe · « **Reply #21 on:** February 27, 2021, 06:52:11 PM »

What steering rack are you using on there? I was just looking at a borgeson 800 box for our worn out one in the 73 and noticed you are up another level from that

Don R · « **Reply #22 on:** February 28, 2021, 04:04:31 PM »

This one came on the front clip it says Detroit Speed. I think Art Morrison Enterprises is connected with them business wise.

CBJoe · « **Reply #23 on:** February 28, 2021, 04:58:33 PM »

Quote from: Don R on February 28, 2021, 04:04:31 PM

This one came on the front clip it says Detroit Speed. I think Art Morrison Enterprises is connected with them business wise.

Ahh..I missed you weren't using the stock front subframe

Don R · « **Reply #24 on:** March 01, 2021, 06:14:48 PM »

Yup, full frame. c6 vette front and 57 Edsel in back! This one is a new repro 9" with the round back and no dimples. My 40 Chevy has a real Edsel rear end in it. I asked the junkyard for a 57 ford axle but when I was leaving I noticed the Ford was still there and the Edsel was moved. It worked out, the width was perfect for my rims.

Don R · « **Reply #25 on:** March 26, 2021, 09:44:36 PM »

My friend that builds nhra and other pro stock and pro mod cars encouraged me to reskin the firebird body myself. I'm considering it. Most of the parts are camaro too and easily sold if I go tit's up on it.

RAFster122s · « **Reply #26 on:** March 27, 2021, 10:43:20 AM »

If you can afford it and are willing to spend the 💰 ney and huge amount of time to do it, well then go for it! But reskinning a car is a great deal of effort. You can treat the inner panels and rust proof or blast or remove any hidden corrosion while the skin is off. From a $ point of view, were you to sell it, the reskinned car is going to be worth big $ if done right and finished.
This is a drag car, not a street car, right? Street cars have gone down in price for certain cars but, a properly done car will always pull down big money. Sometimes I have seen a drag car get turned back into a street car because the value as a street rod was higher than as a drag car. But, not real common.
The market has been funny the past 5-10 years.

Recognize that those with money who lust for these cars are dying off as they were young when these cars were new or they were hot muscle cars when they were in their teens or they owned one. So, their bubble will pop as they age out and the newrr cars appeal to the younger crowd.

Don R · « **Reply #27 on:** March 28, 2021, 11:04:46 AM »

It's a street car. My Race car partner works at that shop and is building a new 68 firebird with steel reproduction panels over a tube chassis. It should be awesome.

Don R · « **Reply #28 on:** April 29, 2021, 05:36:25 PM »

I had an up to 30% off card from classic industries so I ordered a 69 trans am hood, scoops, a rear bumper and a rear spoiler. I ended up about 20% off. The hood is back ordered.

CBJoe · « **Reply #29 on:** April 29, 2021, 07:09:53 PM »

Is that a metal or fiberglass hood don?

Always feels good to make May Christmas

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Don R · « **Reply #30 on:** April 29, 2021, 07:34:09 PM »

It's a metal one Joe, it has the scoops near the front edge like a W30 olds. I just have to have one. I know scoops don't do much but look cool, the scoop on my dragster makes .5 psi at 175 mph and its one of the high tech ones.

CBJoe · « **Reply #31 on:** April 30, 2021, 06:25:44 AM »

so you're saying the hood scoops on our formula dont add 100HP?

Don R · « **Reply #32 on:** April 30, 2021, 07:44:43 AM »

They do but only at 300 mph.

Don R · « **Reply #33 on:** September 09, 2021, 08:33:23 PM »

I got the scoops, never got the hood. Backordered and didn't re-order it yet.
I re-hung the front bumper/headlight assembly today, the new subframe didn't line up perfectly with the body line-up holes. I centered the front holes rather than the firewall factory line up points. I was concerned the bumper might not line up right. All is well, the nose went right back on and 4 of the 6 bolt holes line up. I assume it's a camaro/firebird difference.

I spent some time on the stainless exhaust and remembered why I stopped. I need to make a template of the u joint rotation and let the axle hang so I can see clearance. I may need to lop the corners off the muffler.

CBJoe · « **Reply #34 on:** September 10, 2021, 09:59:39 AM »

Can remember if you said this Don...but are you planning to run EFI (like a snyper) or keeping it carb'd?

Don R · « **Reply #35 on:** September 11, 2021, 07:49:38 PM »

Sniper efi or a terminator with rail injectors, hopefully fed by a centrifugal supercharger.

https://butlerperformance.com/i-31643292-torqstorm-pontiac-1967-1969-f-body-v8-kit.html?ref=category:1459550

CBJoe · « **Reply #36 on:** September 12, 2021, 02:18:23 PM »

Quote from: Don R on September 11, 2021, 07:49:38 PM

Sniper efi or a terminator with rail injectors, hopefully fed by a centrifugal supercharger.

https://butlerperformance.com/i-31643292-torqstorm-pontiac-1967-1969-f-body-v8-kit.html?ref=category:1459550

So what your saying Don…is this won’t be a grocery getter

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Don R · « **Reply #37 on:** September 17, 2021, 01:46:58 PM »

I'm thinking it will be a cruiser with impressive torque and visual credentials. A guy I know came by today and checked out the firebird. He needed to know if it's pro touring or pro street. Since it doesn't have steam roller tires I'd say not pro street. I'd have to say I really don't care what someone else wants to call it.
I'm hoping for bad ass.

Don R · « **Reply #38 on:** September 18, 2021, 07:16:14 PM »

The old Firebird is jealous, I put some fresh gas and spark plugs in the 40 chevy coupe, sanded down the paint blisters and topped the bare metal with some rust killer paint. It doesn't look half bad slowly turning it's self into a rat rod. I'm taking it to a car show tomorrow at the local VFW. My car club is helping put it on.

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Author Topic: My (T)rusty old firebird. (Read 2485 times)