Topic: Sturgis redux

[Don R]

  Virus has no politics and you can't BS a virus. Despite what talk radio says this isn't about your rights. Who's the snowflake now? 

[jgger]

So 92% of people are wearing masks and covid is approaching the highest levels so far? That tells me one of two things 1. Either the masks don't do much or
2. Somebody isn't being very accurate in reporting the numbers.

I highly doubt that 8% of the people are causing all these cases. But I'm a carpenter, not a "scientist ".

Where are you getting these statistics? My experience in retail establishments around here put the numbers opposite of what you are spouting. About 8% are masked up while 92% are wandering around like there's nothing going on. Makes me want to wretch. THAT should help keep people back! 

Sad state of affairs... 

I used the number  that carnivorous chicken had in post 37 of this thread. I had also heard that same number quoted elsewhere.  I just don't know what to believe when there are so many opposing statistics being thrown around. As rampant as this is supposed to be, I only know 1 person who has had this virus and I hope it stays that way.

[Don R]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-dakotas-are-as-bad-as-it-gets-anywhere-in-the-world-for-covid-19/ar-BB1b0KYw?ocid=msedgdhp

 10 days after the Nov. 4 election and it didn't go away.

[goodtryer]

Me. I’m the snowflake. Does that make it easier for you to leave people alone?

[carnivorous chicken]

Me. I’m the snowflake. Does that make it easier for you to leave people alone?

Need I remind you that being a snowflake is not in the Constitution?

[goodtryer]

No need. I wasn’t the one misquoting it earlier.

[calj737]

Me. I’m the snowflake. Does that make it easier for you to leave people alone?

Need I remind you that being a snowflake is not in the Constitution?

Nor does it say anything about masks, viruses, lockdowns, homosexual rights, health care, social media... need I go on?

You sure you want to open that can of worms?

[carnivorous chicken]

Me. I’m the snowflake. Does that make it easier for you to leave people alone?

Need I remind you that being a snowflake is not in the Constitution?

Nor does it say anything about masks, viruses, lockdowns, homosexual rights, health care, social media... need I go on?

You sure you want to open that can of worms?

Although nothing would excite me more than to hear you expound about gay rights, I'm not the one who brought up the Constitution in the context of wearing a mask during a pandemic. Here, let me remind you as it must have slipped your mind.

There is no constitutional power given to the Federal government to require a mask. It is a clear violation of our civil liberties.

You guys are seriously cracking me up. "It's not in the Constitution! You can't make me wear a mask!" Comedy gold.

[Bailgang]

Well it finally hit someone i know personally. An older brother of mine found out he had Covid last Monday and has been dealing with it all week, what annoys me is that I didn't find out about it until last night on a FB post of his. I guess he's been to the ER twice because of shortness of breathe with a temp of 103 and generally feeling like hell, the scary part of it all is that he most definitely falls into the "high risk" category because he's in his 70's, had triple bypass heart surgery a few years ago and generally not in the greatest of health to begin with. The good news is that he claims to be feeling better and his temp dropping closer to normal, I plan on giving him a call later on today to find out what's up.

[madmtnmotors]

Well it finally hit someone i know personally. An older brother of mine found out he had Covid last Monday and has been dealing with it all week, what annoys me is that I didn't find out about it until last night on a FB post of his. I guess he's been to the ER twice because of shortness of breathe with a temp of 103 and generally feeling like hell, the scary part of it all is that he most definitely falls into the "high risk" category because he's in his 70's, had triple bypass heart surgery a few years ago and generally not in the greatest of health to begin with. The good news is that he claims to be feeling better and his temp dropping closer to normal, I plan on giving him a call later on today to find out what's up.

Sorry to hear about your brother, but am glad to hear that he seems to have had a milder reaction than many others and appears to be on the mend. As far as I'm concerned the refusal of many to don a mask when in close proximity to other people, especially when indoors, shows a total lack of respect for the safety and well being of their fellow man.

"Infect them all and let God sort them out" is not an acceptable approach to a highly infectious, and too often fatal disease... 

[goodtryer]

"What is 'false dichotomy?', Alex.":       "Infect them all and let God sort them out"


Yeah, the mask mandates and lockdowns really get the results...

====================


"There's Sweden at the bottom, the country that never closed businesses or schools and never had a mask mandate.

By the way, see that tiny blip at the end of Sweden's line, where it goes up a little bit and then comes back down?

A couple of weeks ago people were pointing at that tiny thing and screaming that Sweden was finally going to get what was coming to it.

Mmkay.

They can't just be happy for Sweden and curious to learn more about why it's been doing so well month after month -- in fact, September 2020 was the least lethal month in the entire recorded history of Sweden."

[carnivorous chicken]

Compared to its neighbors, Sweden currently has a death toll much higher over the course of the virus. It has reduced the infection rate over time, so kudos for that, and its neighbors may have a higher toll when it is all over, but it's a little early to be congratulating them. Sweden failed miserably at the initial stages of Covid, especially among it's most vulnerable population: the elderly. Sweden was congratulated, then condemned, and its returned to cautious congratulations -- but like I said, compared to its neighbors its death toll is much higher.

Sweden also has voluntary compliance of social distancing and mask wearing, socialized medicine with excellent health care paid for through high rates of taxation, and a population where large amounts of people do not deny that the virus exists, deny the science behind its spread, deny that wearing masks actually helps prevent the spread of Covid, and claiim that because wearing a mask is not specifically mentioned in their constitution the government can't make people wear them.

Perhaps people in the US could learn something from the Swedes.

[calj737]

As far as I'm concerned the refusal of many to don a mask when in close proximity to other people, especially when indoors, shows a total lack of respect for the safety and well being of their fellow man.

Wilbur, I think what some find ironic and hypocritical is this “mandate” to something new and hyped, yet I’ve never seen lockdown mania or mask paranoia over other airborne diseases, like TB. TB kills more than 1.5M people globally every year. And has killed tens of millions throughout time. Still no vaccine. So why not masks?

Sure, it has a lower annual mortality rate in the US, but it fits exactly the criteria being touted with respect to Covid. But it’s all crickets...

What about requiring those with HIV to adopt a mask? Surely if they were to inadvertently exchange saliva/blood/mucous with someone susceptible, then they’ve had the same callous disregard as a non-mask wearer during Covid?

Where and when does the logic fit the argument? That’s my question. Too many inconsistencies with this Covid virus compared to others. The world never locked down over others, so why now? Because we are smarter? I think not. More informed? Eh, I’m not persuaded that to be true. So it must be hyperbole to an extent.

I hope you and your lovely bride are well, and healthy. Hope to catch you after this all passes-

[goodtryer]

I'm sure ALL of your assertions are correct. They're not in evidence in the graph but undoubtedly correct.




in fact, September 2020 was the least lethal month in the entire recorded history of Sweden
in fact, September 2020 was the least lethal month in the entire recorded history of Sweden
in fact, September 2020 was the least lethal month in the entire recorded history of Sweden
in fact, September 2020 was the least lethal month in the entire recorded history of Sweden
in fact, September 2020 was the least lethal month in the entire recorded history of Sweden

[754]

There was a pandemic in your country just over a century ago... and there was lots of mask wearing.. not the first time around.
 I think Sweden is different than west coast Canada, in that we have huge interaction with Asia, many oeople travelling there and other places...... probably way different than Swedish travel patterns.
 And on top of it , certain ethnic and social groups are not complying with suggestions made by health authorities. . Bikers is one example.. not all of them, but certain segments. .

[carnivorous chicken]

I'm sure ALL of your assertions are correct. They're not in evidence in the graph but undoubtedly correct.

They are. All of them. It's because the graph is showing something else. These are all easily verifiable facts, and you shouldn't trust me -- you should look them up for yourself.

Just for the record, TB kills around 500 people in the US every year.

Covid has killed 1.3 million globally and counting, about the same as TB... but with people all over the globe taking precautions. Imagine the death toll if people weren't taking precautions -- or if the rest of the world treated the threat of Covid the same as many people in the US. If the global death toll reflected the .07% of the United States, there would be around 5.5 million dead -- and counting. Thankfully most other places around the globe don't have a cadre of people screaming that wearing a mask is a violation of some imagined inalienable right. It's pretty simple actually.

Comparing it to HIV is actually kind of funny, given the huge discrepancies in how the two are spread.

But yeah, a quarter of a million people dead in the US, 1500 more dead per day, millions infected, rates of infection and death that far outstrip other developed countries. Must just be hyperbole.

It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

[goodtryer]

"but with people all over the globe taking precautions"       Everyone except those pesky Swedes. Oh wait *clears throat* "It's different there..."

"TB kills around 500 people in the US every year."   ...moves goalposts...  "Covid has killed 1.3 million globally"      False equivalence much?

"imagined inalienable right"   Weren't you reminding me about the Constitution a while ago?

[jgger]

I'm sure ALL of your assertions are correct. They're not in evidence in the graph but undoubtedly correct.

They are. All of them. It's because the graph is showing something else. These are all easily verifiable facts, and you shouldn't trust me -- you should look them up for yourself.

Just for the record, TB kills around 500 people in the US every year.

Covid has killed 1.3 million globally and counting, about the same as TB... but with people all over the globe taking precautions. Imagine the death toll if people weren't taking precautions -- or if the rest of the world treated the threat of Covid the same as many people in the US. If the global death toll reflected the .07% of the United States, there would be around 5.5 million dead -- and counting. Thankfully most other places around the globe don't have a cadre of people screaming that wearing a mask is a violation of some imagined inalienable right. It's pretty simple actually.

Comparing it to HIV is actually kind of funny, given the huge discrepancies in how the two are spread.

But yeah, a quarter of a million people dead in the US, 1500 more dead per day, millions infected, rates of infection and death that far outstrip other developed countries. Must just be hyperbole.

It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

So your stat in post 37 is incorrect? That is where that there is a 92% compliance with mask wearing, then here you state infection is on the rise.

So are the masks as effective as you believe and 8% of the population is causing this new wave? Or is the reporting a bit skewed? It can't possibly be both. This is why so many have trouble swallowing what is being fed to us.

[carnivorous chicken]

"but with people all over the globe taking precautions"       Everyone except those pesky Swedes. Oh wait *clears throat* "It's different there..."

"TB kills around 500 people in the US every year."   ...moves goalposts...  "Covid has killed 1.3 million globally"      False equivalence much?

"imagined inalienable right"   Weren't you reminding me about the Constitution a while ago?

I don't think you're following along with the rest of us, which is kind of important if you want to do more than rant about why you shouldn't have to wear a mask. I'm responding to you and Cal in one post. If you think that Swedes aren't taking precautions, you're not paying attention.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills! I invented the piano tie!

I just don't understand what is so onerous about wearing a mask, nor how some people will twist logic into knots, ignore the safety of those around them, and whine that the government can't make them do something. Veruca Salt much?

[carnivorous chicken]

So your stat in post 37 is incorrect? That is where that there is a 92% compliance with mask wearing, then here you state infection is on the rise.

So are the masks as effective as you believe and 8% of the population is causing this new wave? Or is the reporting a bit skewed? It can't possibly be both. This is why so many have trouble swallowing what is being fed to us.

Obviously not everyone in that 92% wears masks all the time. 

[jgger]

But you won't answer my question. How can both the stats or "facts" you have stated be simultaneously true? That is all I'm asking.

[jgger]

So your stat in post 37 is incorrect? That is where that there is a 92% compliance with mask wearing, then here you state infection is on the rise.

So are the masks as effective as you believe and 8% of the population is causing this new wave? Or is the reporting a bit skewed? It can't possibly be both. This is why so many have trouble swallowing what is being fed to us.

Obviously not everyone in that 92% wears masks all the time.

Now that's just silly. If they aren't wearing a mask then they aren't in compliance and would be part of the 8%

[goodtryer]

"but with people all over the globe taking precautions"       Everyone except those pesky Swedes. Oh wait *clears throat* "It's different there..."

"TB kills around 500 people in the US every year."   ...moves goalposts...  "Covid has killed 1.3 million globally"      False equivalence much?

"imagined inalienable right"   Weren't you reminding me about the Constitution a while ago?

I don't think you're following along with the rest of us, which is kind of important if you want to do more than rant about why you shouldn't have to wear a mask. I'm responding to you and Cal in one post. If you think that Swedes aren't taking precautions, you're not paying attention.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills! I invented the piano tie!

I just don't understand what is so onerous about wearing a mask, nor how some people will twist logic into knots, ignore the safety of those around them, and whine that the government can't make them do something. Veruca Salt much?

And, just like that, we've waved away all the objections without responding to the numerous specific points about logical fallacies and made up statistics.
But please, tell me more about twisted logic. I'll try to follow the (non-)answers.

[Gordon]

I just don't understand what is so onerous about wearing a mask, nor how some people will twist logic into knots, ignore the safety of those around them, and whine that the government can't make them do something. Veruca Salt much?

IMO, it's the same with man-made climate change deniers, and more often than not they're going to be the same people.  To do something about a problem, even a very small thing, means to admit the problem exists.  Admitting that a major problem exists is scary and leaves you feeling not as in control of your life as you thought you were, and means you may have to make some changes that take you out of the comfortable hole you've burrowed yourself into. 

[ofreen]

So the last thread on Sturgis turned into the predictable sh1tshow,

I wonder why that happens? 

But hey, you do you, guy.

It makes these people look like, to borrow a term, "whining snowflakes."

I gotta be honest, and I apologize for ruffling your feathers guys, but you mask and science deniers clamoring about your "rights" simply sound, after 9 months of a devastating pandemic that has killed over one-quarter million people, like petulant little kids. It's funny and kind of sad at the same time.

You guys are seriously cracking me up. "It's not in the Constitution! You can't make me wear a mask!" Comedy gold.

Veruca Salt much?