Topic: Idiot lights led?

[The Gurg]

Bought leds for turn signals and idiot lights. Read that you have to rewire the turn signals to get the leds to work. Anyone know if that’s also true for the idiot lights?

[minimo]

For turn signals, you may need to switch out your relay to one that adapts 12V to LED.

As for the Idiot Lights, if they’re the ones from Sparck Moto, those work fine as-is

http://www.sparckmoto.com/Products/Detail/72


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[bryanj]

If you only have one blinker idiot light that wont work with led blinker bulbs

[The Gurg]

Current can run both ways through incandescent, but only runs run one way through led.

I was planning on running incandescent in the turn signals, so I don’t have to re-wire.

But was thinking that the led idiot lights might still work as led with the incandescent turns signals.

[minimo]

I was able to run incandescents with the stubby LED idiots from Sparck


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[The Gurg]

Wonder if there is anything unique about the sparck moto ones?

These are the ones I got:
https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/miniature-and-subminiature-bulbs/ba9s-led-landscape-light-bulb-1-led-ba9s-retrofit-4-lumens/2541/

[minimo]

Wonder if there is anything unique about the sparck moto ones?

These are the ones I got:
https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/miniature-and-subminiature-bulbs/ba9s-led-landscape-light-bulb-1-led-ba9s-retrofit-4-lumens/2541/

Sparck’s are definitely more shallow than superbrightleds. These type of LED’s, the bulb-type, I have found already have the resistors built in to run off of 12V.


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[DaveBarbier]

Wonder if there is anything unique about the sparck moto ones?

These are the ones I got:
https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/miniature-and-subminiature-bulbs/ba9s-led-landscape-light-bulb-1-led-ba9s-retrofit-4-lumens/2541/

Sparck’s are definitely more shallow than superbrightleds. These type of LED’s, the bulb-type, I have found already have the resistors built in to run off of 12V.


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I think you’re mistaken about the resistor thing. The linked page says nothing about resistors so it can work with 12 volts. Any bulb designed for automotive use will work on 12 volts. I’m talking about the typical gauge or signal bulbs that we care about, don’t try and get me on a technicality

It looks like the Spark bulbs, as you said, are just super low profile which might offer a better spread to more evenly illuminate the light but I’m just speculating.

[DaveBarbier]

Bought leds for turn signals and idiot lights. Read that you have to rewire the turn signals to get the leds to work. Anyone know if that’s also true for the idiot lights?

Two issues and both concern the signals. One is the stock relay flasher is mechanical and works by flipping on and off when it senses the high load of a bulb. With an LED the load is so much lower that it doesn’t trigger the relay and won’t flash OR it will flash super fast and make a crazy noise. You can buy a flasher relay on Amazon or eBay or maybe even superbrightLEDs for cheap that will work with LEDs. I believe these are the ones I got. The flashing speed is adjustable. https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Pin-12V-Electronic-LED-Flasher-Relay-Fix-Turn-Signal-Bulbs-Hyper-Flash-Issue-/124280731352?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292
 
The next issue is with having a single idiot light for the turn signals. The stock wiring has both signals and idiot light tied together in the circuit. That works fine with incandescents but with LEDs the current draw is so low that when you flip one signal on, both the left and right go on like hazards. You can buy a little diode pack that eliminates this for cheap. https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/flashers-load-resistors/metric-bike-diode-kit/1190/

You can also make one yourself with two 1N4001 diodes but for $3 it’s not worth the time to solder it together. But if you want I can quickly draw up the schematic. It’s super simple.

[robvangulik]

LED's for inside the tacho and speedo, good idea as they are almost always ON as the bike is used, same for headlamp, taillight and even brakelight, it lightens the load on the electrical system.
 But neutral, oil, highbeam and signal lights are hardly used at all, I cannot remember when I had to replace one of those, and the amount of energy they use is minimal, why make it difficult for yourself, especially with the turnsignals, changing wiring just to have LEDs there, while they usually work without any flaw for years and years?

[The Gurg]

Finishing up my first rebuild ever on a cb750K5, wanting to get it back together and see if it turns over. Trying to figure out if I could put in these leds on the idiot lights without issue. From what Dave barbier is saying sounds like they would work except the turn indicator would have very quick strobe. I think I’ll just put in stock bulbs for now and circle back later. I think robvangulik makes great points. Worth doing, now I have a project for over the winter. I’ll resurrect this thread then.

You all answered my question, thanks guys!

[Bodi]

1 - The stock flasher will not flash if you have LED signals front and back, the indicators just stay on. Using a 3 terminal electronic flasher gets them flashing but these flashers sense bulb power and will flash faster to warn that a bulb has burned out... the low LED power triggers that fast flash. But I like the fast flashing. Special LED flashers go the normal speed and the "normal" electronic 3 wire flashers can be modified to eliminate the fast rate.
2 - With 2 signal idiot lights (400F style) these work the same with normal or LED signal and/or idiot bulbs.
If you have one signal idiot light it won't work properly with LED signals front and back, using either the normal bulb or an LED. If you add load resistors to the left and right signal circuits - which makes the original flasher work - a standard bulb idiot light will work ok.
Rewiring with two diodes added to the idiot light circuit is required for an LED idiot light (regardless of indicator bulb type) and for a standard idiot bulb with LED signals but no load resistors (or all four signals will flash for left or right turns).
If you're using LED signals to reduce power draw the load resistors negate any reduction.

LEDs require current limiting when connected to a circuit. Usually this is a resistor calculated for the applied voltage to allow the LED's rated current at that voltage. Without current limiting a bare LED will flash bright for an instant as it burns out if connected to 12VDC.
All "drop in" replacement LED automotive bulbs for filament bulbs have a resistor built in for automotive "12V" power (actually 14V nominal).

[Deltarider]

LED's for inside the tacho and speedo, good idea as they are almost always ON as the bike is used, same for headlamp, taillight and even brakelight, it lightens the load on the electrical system.
But neutral, oil, highbeam and signal lights are hardly used at all, I cannot remember when I had to replace one of those, and the amount of energy they use is minimal, why make it difficult for yourself, especially with the turnsignals, changing wiring just to have LEDs there, while they usually work without any flaw for years and years?

I agree with Rob, except where he suggests having LEDs in the speedo and tach. The results I have seen so far, were awful (too bright). I'd keep the four 3W bulbs in there. This is what I did to increase their lifespan. In the pilot light socket that European headlamp reflectors have, I've replaced the standard 5 Watts Ba9s by a 21 Watts halogen one, which I use as a DRL. I choose one that is slightly yellowish. I used an old switch that I had lying around and by tucking it nicely away in the opening where the cables go, I have saved the original looks of my bike. So in daytime taillight and all four gauge bulbs are extinct. That's 18 Watts saved and the gauge bulbs live forever.
Can't believe so many of you are attracted to LEDs. They suck in blinkers, brakelights and headlamps. If you want to play with electrics by all means, then do something creative. There is so much you can do and it is much more rewarding than gazing blindly at LEDS and opening dumb blisters. If I had a US model, this is what I'd do: immediately replace that inferior sealed beam headlamp by a European reflector. Known good brands are: Cibié, Marchal, Bosch and Hella. Make sure that yours has that pilot light socket and you can do the same I did.

[bryanj]

Having done it if you put led bulbs in flashers and the single idiot light all four flashers work whichever way you put the switch because the idiot light connects both sides together, the resistance of the ordinary filament bulbs is what lets the system work

[evinrude7]

Don't have any issues w LEDs as idiot bulbs or gauge bulbs

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[DaveBarbier]

LED's for inside the tacho and speedo, good idea as they are almost always ON as the bike is used, same for headlamp, taillight and even brakelight, it lightens the load on the electrical system.
But neutral, oil, highbeam and signal lights are hardly used at all, I cannot remember when I had to replace one of those, and the amount of energy they use is minimal, why make it difficult for yourself, especially with the turnsignals, changing wiring just to have LEDs there, while they usually work without any flaw for years and years?

I agree with Rob, except where he suggests having LEDs in the speedo and tach. The results I have seen so far, were awful (too bright). I'd keep the four 3W bulbs in there. This is what I did to increase their lifespan. In the pilot light socket that European headlamp reflectors have, I've replaced the standard 5 Watts Ba9s by a 21 Watts halogen one, which I use as a DRL. I choose one that is slightly yellowish. I used an old switch that I had lying around and by tucking it nicely away in the opening where the cables go, I have saved the original looks of my bike. So in daytime taillight and all four gauge bulbs are extinct. That's 18 Watts saved and the gauge bulbs live forever.
Can't believe so many of you are attracted to LEDs. They suck in blinkers, brakelights and headlamps. If you want to play with electrics by all means, then do something creative. There is so much you can do and it is much more rewarding than gazing blindly at LEDS and opening dumb blisters. If I had a US model, this is what I'd do: immediately replace that inferior sealed beam headlamp by a European reflector. Known good brands are: Cibié, Marchal, Bosch and Hella. Make sure that yours has that pilot light socket and you can do the same I did.

I will echo part of what delta said. LEDs are bright but the one that’s the worst is the blue high beam indicator. On one of my bikes I ended up putting a handful of resistors to bring down the brightness significantly. That was on one of those cheap ass gauges from dime city cycles. Before the resistors it actually lit up my face at night, it was crazy bright. Our eyes are very sensitive to blue light so that’s usually the biggest offender. Just know that if it’s to bright, it can be dimmed down.

[drumstyx]

Having done it if you put led bulbs in flashers and the single idiot light all four flashers work whichever way you put the switch because the idiot light connects both sides together, the resistance of the ordinary filament bulbs is what lets the system work

I didn't believe this at first, owning only a K8 (with 2 idiot flasher lights), but looking at the wiring diagram for the earlier models, I'm shocked to see you're right.

First and foremost: A well deserved criticism for the engineers that did this -- theres absolutely no reason it couldn't operate like the buzzer mentioned in the diagram (never seen a turn signal buzzer in my region), where the dash light is BEFORE the switch, only operating when the signals are engaged. This is engineers pulling fancy tricks because they're bored. I'm a bit hypocritical here, I do it myself in software, but it's overengineered for kicks, not for any real good reason.

Second: Unless I'm missing something, diodes won't help. Well they will, but only in that the indicators will work, but I don't see how you can use diodes to get the idiot light to work in both directions while also fixing the indicators themselves. ON SECOND THOUGHT: Idiot light blue to ground, idiot light orange to both orange AND blue with diodes on them should do the trick.

[DaveBarbier]

ON SECOND THOUGHT: Idiot light blue to ground, idiot light orange to both orange AND blue with diodes on them should do the trick.

That’s exactly how it should be wired up.



This has been discussed at length in other posts.

[bryanj]

But that is a REALY complicated way of loosing a 3w bulb that isnt even on all the time

[robvangulik]

 

[DaveBarbier]

But that is a REALY complicated way of loosing a 3w bulb that isnt even on all the time

That’s an entire different discussion. And if you consider this “really complicated” what do you call things that are actually really complicated? Like, creating an artificial intelligence that won’t destroy us all.

[bryanj]

Theres nothing wrong with Arnie!!!

When i said complicated its a lot of extra bits and joints for no real benefit

[Deltarider]

But that is a REALY complicated way of loosing a 3w bulb that isnt even on all the time

Hear, hear!
Below the image of a dash bulb. It's a member of the incandescent bulbs and that family has been around for many decades. No wonder. The design is very reliable. When such a bulb has finally reached its end after many, many cycles of switching, it can be replaced by another in a jiffy. No problems with polarity. It will work. They're dead cheap too. You can even go cheaper and 'buy American'. Good luck with that.
A LED is different. There is polarity to observe, meaning for some models you will need diodes. More parts, more costs. Less reliability however, because shielding against water has to be improvised by you, an amateur. No plug and play anymore. Over the years I have learned that some members here are intrigued by electricketry. They seem to look for whatever reason to play with it. Why? Do they want that sugar rush when you buy something new? Is it a desire to prove themselves to be true engineers? I suggest they have a wider look around, at another invention in the electric field, shown in the second pic. It's a comfy chair. Go sit in it and switch it on. You will have a moment of enlightment and all your sorrows will soon be forgotten. And... made in America. Enjoy! For the rest of us, the dummies, it will mean less interesting threads. But somehow I have the feeling, we will overcome that. Thank you all. It has been interesting.

[evinrude7]

But that is a REALY complicated way of loosing a 3w bulb that isnt even on all the time

Hear, hear!
Below the image of a dash bulb. It's a member of the incandescent bulbs and that family has been around for many decades. No wonder. The design is very reliable. When such a bulb has finally reached its end after many, many cycles of switching, it can be replaced by another in a jiffy. No problems with polarity. It will work. They're dead cheap too. You can even go cheaper and 'buy American'. Good luck with that.
A LED is different. There is polarity to observe, meaning for some models you will need diodes. More parts, more costs. Less reliability however, because shielding against water has to be improvised by you, an amateur. No plug and play anymore. Over the years I have learned that some members here are intrigued by electricketry. They seem to look for whatever reason to play with it. Why? Do they want that sugar rush when you buy something new? Is it a desire to prove themselves to be true engineers? I suggest they have a wider look around, at another invention in the electric field, shown in the second pic. It's a comfy chair. Go sit in it and switch it on. You will have a moment of enlightment and all your sorrows will soon be forgotten. And... made in America. Enjoy! For the rest of us, the dummies, it will mean less interesting threads. But somehow I have the feeling, we will overcome that. Thank you all. It has been interesting.

how dare you.

[Bankerdanny]

On my '75 550F I used LED bulbs in the front turn signals and tail/stop light, but regular on the rear turns. The fronts and tail light are on all the time, so LED bulbs reduce draw on the electrical system. The rear lights only draw when the turn signal is on, so no real savings. With the conventional bulbs in the back I didn't need to run resistors.

I also used LED's in the gauges and a couple of the idiot lights and installed a single piece LED headlight. When I finally do my 750 I won't bother with the warning light bulbs since they aren't on all the time so there is no power savings and the hi beam indicator was so bright at night that it was a distraction.

I really liked the LED's in the front running/turn lights because they were much brighter and so easier for oncoming traffic to see.

The gauge lights benefited from the brighter LED's too, here's a night picture. The speedo has a new face that only has a sticker on the top and not on both sides like the OEM face, so it's extra bright. The speedo is still original and gives a goo idea of what you get.