Topic: new rim / tyre combo for 550?

[flatlander]

yes i think it's pretty clear. talking now to the wheel shop guys... stay tuned 

[Flyin900]

So I received a response from Avon regarding using the Avon Roadrider MK11 on the rear of the stock 1:85 width sized rim and they confirmed that this would be the closest match to the original 375:18 stock tire.

Other brands may also be equivalent too, yet they have the correct sized front tire in this series being a 325:19 sizing and this is a newer tire development from the original AM26 Roadrider I believe and getting good reviews.

I have used the older AM 26 Roadrider on other bikes in the past with good success, so the newer Roadrider MK11 will be " baby's new shoes" 

Motorcycle Technical <motorcycletechnical@coopertire.com>
05:39 (4 hours ago)
to me

Hi,

 Thanks for your enquiry.

 Yes we would recommend the 100/90-18 Roadrider MKII Universal. This is the closest match to your original size of 3.75-18

 Regards

 Avon Motorcycle Technical

 

[Stev-o]

So I received a response from Avon regarding using the Avon Roadrider MK11

 

Good info Flying.   According to their website, they launched that tire about a year ago.  It doesnt surprise me that they updated the Roadrider as there were reports of premature cracking of the sidewall. I have them on my Z1 but never experienced it and love the tire.

https://www.avontyres.com/en-us/news/d/!/5561/avon-tyres-launches-roadrider-mkii-sport-touring-motorcycle-tyre

Next question for FL - do you want a modern tread pattern like the Roadrider or are you leaning towards the vintage tread pattern look?

[flatlander]

Next question for FL - do you want a modern tread pattern like the Roadrider or are you leaning towards the vintage tread pattern look?

i'm fine width a modern pattern. now i use BT45s, might give either the new roadrider or BT46 a go. not decided yet.
what i'm trying to figure out now: should the rims be shouldered or more stock looking low? tough choices!

[Stev-o]

Next question for FL - do you want a modern tread pattern like the Roadrider or are you leaning towards the vintage tread pattern look?

i'm fine width a modern pattern. now i use BT45s, might give either the new roadrider or BT46 a go. not decided yet.
what i'm trying to figure out now: should the rims be shouldered or more stock looking low? tough choices!

Can you post pics [or links] of the rim choices?  I love the look of a aluminum shouldered rim!

[flatlander]

here, the excel rim at the top is the shouldered one: https://www.haanwheels.com/classic-vintage-wheels/aluminium-rims/
i kind of like it but have two doubts: it looks like it would be more of a #$%* to keep clean than the regular, low profile rims. and apart from the pipes my bike still has a pretty understated stock look which might be nice to stay close to.

the morad shouldered and low ones are underneath.

and then they have also the regular profile excel rims: https://www.haanwheels.com/motocross-wheels/rims/
those are not polished but higher quality than morad low profile.

choices... choices 

[flatlander]

talked to the shop about differences between the rims and putting it here in case it's useful to anyone:

- excel takasago is the best overall quality in terms of strength vs. roundness vs. weight. low profile, and anodised alu (silver is available but not polished)
- excel classic is next in quality, shouldered profile and polished alu.
- the morads (shouldered and low) are lower in quality, also polished alu. they mainly run them for their german customers because they are TUV approved which is necessary there, but otherwise advise to use excel.

excel takasago rims can be made tubeless from 2.5" width onwards.
excel classic and morad can't be made tubeless as they lack the necessary safety bead.

the idea of going tubeless is nice but 2.5" for the front sounds a bit much.
according to the charts a 3.25" tyre would fit but it seems a very big step up from 1.85".

[bryanj]

How can you possibly make a spoked rim tubless, air will always leak out the spoke holes

[Flyin900]

Look at the rim on a 1986 Honda CMX 450 Rebel. A spoked rim design with a tubeless tire. The rim has a outer flange running around the middle of the rim that held the spokes. The rest of the rim was a tubeless design all aluminum in design and very ingenious overall.

[jlh3rd]

How can you possibly make a spoked rim tubless, air will always leak out the spoke holes

something i looked up years ago......so, it seems there are companies/people that say they can seal the inner rim spoke locations..stock spoke wheel,..using ..whatever.
    I couldn't trust it myself.
     

[grcamna2]

How can you possibly make a spoked rim tubless, air will always leak out the spoke holes

something i looked up years ago......so, it seems there are companies/people that say they can seal the inner rim spoke locations..stock spoke wheel,..using ..whatever.
    I couldn't trust it myself.
   

I know,as soon as the spoke is turned to adjust it,that could upset the seal. 
I like the last post from Flyin900 about the Rebel 450 and it's tubeless design:I've adjusted spokes on a customers bike in the 90's and No problem.

[Flyin900]

Yes the rim on the CMX450Rebel is an actual tubeless design rim where the spokes don't enter the rim at all. As noted there is a flange running around the outside center of the rim that holds the spokes. Honda wasn't the only company to do this, as I believe a number of more modern bikes use this type of design to offer that spoked look on a modern tubeless rim design.
It was quite innovative for 1986 it seemed, although I am sure someone can refer to an earlier manufacturer that used a similar design.

[seanbarney41]

Supermoto guys been doing tubeless spokes for years...kits are available that work well if care is taken during installation

[flatlander]

getting into real details now but adding this anyway in case someone finds this useful in the future:

the outer width of the stock 19x1.85" front rim of the 550 is 71mm.

if you have dual dual disk brakes upfront made  up from OEM parts (like i do) then the space between the 2 calipers is
- adjusted for running: +/- 72mm
- adjuster screws off: +/- 76mm
- caliper holder arm unbolted: more than 90mm

outer width of excel takasago rims is:
- 19x1.85" 40 spokes:  69MM
- 19x2.15" 40 spokes: 78MM
- 19x2.50" 40 spokes: 86mm

so with dual disks, not touching the brake caliper adjustments, getting the stock front wheel off is already a tight squeeze. width different rims, of different widths it might take a bit more work.
maybe something to consider for people who wear out several front tyres in a year 

[robvangulik]

With modern bikes it is quite normal to have to take off at least 1 caliper to get the front wheel out, usually only 2 bolts.

[flatlander]

but this is not a modern bike and i am lazy 
nah seriously, i'm ok to loosen the caliper arm. good excuse to make sure it still moves freely.

[flatlander]

so i got my rims and tyres and here's some pictures to show how it works out.

front
excel takasago 19x2.5
avon roadrider mk2 19-3.25








rear
excel takasago 18x2.5
avon roadrider mk2 19-4.00








why the 2.5 front rim?
because that's the minimum width they could do a tubeless conversion for, which i think made sense to get. it's still within spec of the manufacturers for 3.25" tyre width.
this is what the tubeless conversion looks like:





it's quite a pain to get tyres these days. delivery takes ages, apparently because of covid. didn't know the virus could infect rubber.

[grcamna2]

I like the inside bead-seating edges of that Takasago rim. 
The tire can lose most of it's air pressure and still stay seated

[PeWe]

Nice with new rims and tires!

The front 2.5" rim is not 0.65" wider than stock 1.85" if measure the outer part of the rim that take space in fork, right?

My 2.15" wide front rim is not 0.3" (7.6mm) wider than stock 1.85".
A DID 1.85", 70mm outer width.
My new alloy rim, 2.15" is 73mm.

So clearance more than I thought which is good news when mounting the right caliper bracket.
Wider rim need another way to mount the right caliper bracket. Its upper rear M6 with hex head that could be fitted by a hair on my CB750.

Rims took a while, they had to be drilled to match my hubs. Advertised time 6 weeks. It took 4 weeks.
I order tires sent from Germany. It takes usually around 1 week, max 10 days.
2 weeks if a longer weekend affect the shipping. Last order end of February.

I'll continue with tubes.
No tubes should make tire wrestling easier, no risk pinching the tube. I hope those days are over after grinding my tire irons smoother for tubes and rims sake.
[Edited, text looked strange in Tapatalk]

[flatlander]

the takasago is really nice. i was torn between that one, and the shouldered one for the more classic look. but the takasago is just better quality overall.

the outer width of the rim is 86mm. i measured 76mm space between the brake calipers with the adjuster screws backed off. so that won't fit. i'll need to loosen the bolts that mount the caliper holder to the forks.
but i haven't actually installed the wheels yet. will let you know how it goes.

the main reason to go tubeless for me is that it's so much easier to fix a puncture. you don't need to take off the tyre, not even remove the wheel. i use this bike not to putter around town but for touring so that's a real benefit.

[PeWe]

Your bike has single front brake?

Dual stock is the messy thing on a CB750. Right caliper must go off before taking off the wheel. It sit very close to wheel too.
Using a good brake, 1 is enough according to other builds around here.

Lets see how our bikes will feel on the road with new wheels :-)

[flatlander]

mine is a 550. there is plenty of room with dual calipers and stock rim to take off the wheel without removing any brake parts.

[flatlander]

it all fits, and easier to install than expected. just had to loosen both caliper holders at the fork, didn't need to remove any of them completely.
so far no real disadvantage to the 2.5" rim upfront. i'll report back when i get a chance to try it on the road.

[Alan F.]

Looks great.

[grcamna2]

it all fits, and easier to install than expected. just had to loosen both caliper holders at the fork, didn't need to remove any of them completely.
so far no real disadvantage to the 2.5" rim upfront. i'll report back when i get a chance to try it on the road.

Let me know how it feels leaned deep into a hard set of curves,if there's plenty of side-tread.That does look good