Topic: new rim / tyre combo for 550?

[thep1pe]

I can vouch for Continental Conti Attack Tires. They are radial tyres made for classic bikes.
Bang for Buck the best investment I have made . The handling is amazing.

[Flyin900]

Thanks, yet I am in Canada and Coker isn't a brand up here.... it's a drug. Seriously it isn't available as a brand from any of the retailers I deal with and I would prefer to keep with a name brand seller.

I am really looking for feedback om the tires I already noted in my last post. To the last poster I will look at the Continental tires tires your recommending.

[PeWe]

I am definitely leaning towards the Metzler brand and wonder what the difference is between the Lazertec and the Roadtec models. Both offer a front tire that is the correct spec of 325-19 and the 400-18 rear is off slightly, yet seems to be the best compromise option in sizing.

Can you give me your impression on these two choices, as the Roadtec is a little less expensive for the rear tire and seems like the series maybe a newer Metzler model in their line up.
Also since this is a 1978 CB550K with both a front and rear rim width of 1.85 vs the CB750 width of 2.15, is there an issue with putting the 400-18 on that skinny rear rim?

Roadtec 01 is a newer tire.
I have only used one 4.0-18 rear and it felt better than the Lasertec same bike had earlier.
I'm sure it will live longer so total price is probably not higher.

[grcamna2]

Thanks, yet I am in Canada and Coker isn't a brand up here.... it's a drug. Seriously it isn't available as a brand from any of the retailers I deal with and I would prefer to keep with a name brand seller.

I am really looking for feedback om the tires I already noted in my last post. To the last poster I will look at the Continental tires tires your recommending.

I'd like to hear some feedback about Heidenau tires also..

[Stev-o]

stev-o: what metric tyre/sizes have you used?

Hey FL....I've used various tires and sizes on my bikes. 

Currently, I have IRC's on my 550F since I dont consider it a "high performance" bike. It's a good budget tire, comes in inch sizes [3.25x19 & 4.00x18] and made in Japan. I avoid Chinese tires like the plague  Co-vid Virus!

On my K4 836 [high performance], I run Bridgestone BT45's in metric sizes, rear rim is wider that 550's. Very good tire.  100/90-19 & 120/90-18

On my Z1, [high performance] I run Avon Road riders in metric sizes, great tire. 100/90-19 & 120/20-18

On my Kawasaki Triples H1 500 & H2 750 [high performance] I have Dunlop's and Continental's, respectively, in inch sizes.  I really like the Continental Conti Twins and highly recommend them.

Not easy selecting tires anymore!

[flatlander]

how wide are the rims that you run the 100/90-19s on?

i get the idea of 2.15 rims on the rear. wondering now if it really makes sense to stay on the stock 1.85 for the front, or rather go one size wider there as well. according to charts on the internet, 2.15 rims are recommended for 3.25" tyres... and the internet is always right, after all

and i thought this was going to be an easy question 

[Deltarider]

I avoid Chinese tires like the plague 

I avoid any Chinese product and I'm not the only one. A boycot is building.

[Stev-o]

how wide are the rims that you run the 100/90-19s on?

Fairly certain they are 1.85".   So, 3.25 was stock and equals 82.55mm, it is 17.45mm [.68"] wider than stock. Not enough to cause ill handling in my experience, others may have there own opinion.

Something to ponder:  Why did our Japanese bikes come with inch sized Japanese tires?!

[seanbarney41]

Steve-O, i believe it is the overall height, not the width, and the shape of the carcass that throws off the handling of metric tires.  There were very few metric sizes available in the 70s, if any?

[flatlander]

yes i would guess they used them simply because there was not much else around, at the time.

and i agree, hight and shape (cross section) of a metric tyre would be different even if the width is the same as the inch size. only not sure what difference that would make as it's not a huge one.
overall i get the impression that slightly wider rims than stock (2.15, or even just 2.0 for the front) are not a bad idea, no matter if you put metric or inch on them. certainly in the rear. maybe in the front also?

[PeWe]

I have used
 100/90-19 or stock 3.25-19 on 1.85 front rim.

 120/90-18 or stock 4.0-18 on  2.15 rear rim.

[Flyin900]

The stock CB550 rear rim is the same width as the front a 1.85 measurement. I worked on a friends early CB500 a few years ago that had an old tire on the rear rim, which was likely a 1.85 width too. The shop indicated the tire on that rim was wrong and too wide and very old, so the shop had to cut the tire off with a cutoff wheel.

So since I am running stock rims (1978 CB550K) at the stock 1.85 width and thinking about using a 4.00-18 rear tire on this rim. What are the possible issues beyond the fact is is not the stock 3.75 -18 tire size that is unobtainable?

This bike was a time capsule and very original with low usage, so I actually have the the original Bridgestone correct tires that came from the factory with the bike. I was thinking I have a parts distributor locally that I could have them compare some of these brands directly to the original tire for overall sizing. I believe that there are some differences between brands, even though the sizes are listed as the same metric dimensions.

[flatlander]

So since I am running stock rims (1978 CB550K) at the stock 1.85 width and thinking about using a 4.00-18 rear tire on this rim. What are the possible issues beyond the fact is is not the stock 3.75 -18 tire size that is unobtainable?

it will work. i currently have a 4.00-18 BT45 on the stock 1.85 rim. the tyre might be pinched a bit more than the manufacturer intended, meaning you'd be using less of the thread on the side. but it will work.

[flatlander]

found this chart which corresponds with the info that i saw on sites of tyre manufacturers and other places.


source: https://thisiscasperslife.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/motorcycle_rim_width_tire_size_chart.pdf

this is how i came up with the idea of using 2.15 front and 2.5 rear for the new rims.

according to this, the 1.85 stock rims would have been too narrow from the start. why would honda have done that? or is there something wrong, somewhere?

[Stev-o]

Steve-O, i believe it is the overall height, not the width, and the shape of the carcass that throws off the handling of metric tires.  There were very few metric sizes available in the 70s, if any?

Some good discussion boys.  [will tire threads will be the new "oil thread"]?!!  Which tire is best? Ha

I just snapped a pic of some tires that I just happened to have lined up [waiting to be mounted]

To me, it's seems like most modern Metric tires are very rounded, and this makes for good handling on the turns [Pro]  Case in point tire #2 from the right. It's a Shinko 712F 100/90-19 [front tire]
Cant remember why I bought this tire? But if just used an a crusier bike, the tire may develop odd wear patterns and it gets squared off, and can feel weird when laying the bike over in the curves.

Tire #1 is an Avon Speedmaster, cool vintage tread style I wanted for my K3 "Park Racer".
Still has curvature but not as much. 3.25-19   Perfect size I think.

Tire #3 is a Dunlop Goldseal, an excellent vintage tire from back in the day. I specifically bought this tire for my '74 Kawasaki H1, replaces same tire on rear, it was original tire spec back then
The curvature is much less pronounced and not really a high performance tread pattern.
It is NOS with a manufacture date 2016

Can anyone guess Tire #4 from the right?!


          [/url]

[seanbarney41]

lots going on here...some things I have found to be true...if you don't agree with all of it, that is fine
     1.  The cb550 has such perfectly light steering (and yet is still quite stable at high speed!)  It is precise and neutral...a pleasure to turn.
      2.  There is nothing unsafe or incorrect about putting a slightly larger tire, you probably actually are gaining more grip but the more oversized you go, the more of that perfect feel you lose.  I don't think the rear makes much difference here, but I would think Honda designed the geometry of the frame around the appropriate tire size for a mid sized bike of the era...they got this #$%* right whether intentionally or by accident. 
     3.  I don't really feel a 550 needs more grip, especially at the expense of that amazing light, neutral handling.  Actually, I don't really think the frame and forks are capable of handling more grip.  That is why going big has such a detrimental effect on the feel.
     4.  Metric tire sizes and profiles vary measurably from brand to brand.  I am sure inch sizes do too, but I have not been bothered by this.  So you are never really sure what you are in store for until that puppy is mounted and aired up.
     5.  In the past, I have experimented mostly with cb750's, which are totally different.  The cb750 is a bike that you really have to stomp over sideways to get it to turn.  They need a LOT more help in the handling department.  Even so, when I get back on a stock bike, with stock tire sizes, I realize every change is a trade off.

[jlh3rd]

bf goodrich radial ta...225/70R/15.....on a ....camaro?

[PeWe]

Tire thread is as good as an oil thread!
Even the old tire patterns have updated rubber.
Some tires live longer than others with good grip.
(Oils changed too, our old bikes have different needs than modern bikes)

I have had issues with short lived rear tires. Maybe I do not lean bike and give the throttle enough to wear the sides. Tire flattens which cause very unstable bike in corners.
Not much needed to get it to handle as a snake. Steering damper a great helper when this occur)

Metzeler Lasertec and Dunlop Streetsmart did not live long.
Bad handling around or before 4000km.
4.0-18 handled better a little longer than 120/90-18 on 2.15" rim.
Replaced tire at latest 5000km, one had horrible handling before 4000km.

Heidenau K36 4.0-18 with typical stock look lived a little longer, maybe 6000km as most.

Latest Metzeler Roadtec 01 handles much better then the others and have longer life. My first 4.0-18 got lots of abuse on carb test rides and several dyno rides last summer.
But I'm sure it can live at least 7000km compared to the others max 5000 and 6000km.
It had not that bad handling as the others when flattened.

I'll see next year how it will behave on 120/90-18. If 4.0 will be next again. 4.0 cost more than 120 which has more rubber!

I saw that 80 profile is available too. This affect the gearing so I stayed with 90 since bike runs fine on 17:48. Maybe if using 18 teeth front.

There is an old thread about tires and rims.
Tire angles to compare tires with stock size and match front and rear for a stable behavior in corners. Different angled tires will affect handling.

Here interesting discussion, forum member Tower attach a chart of mathing tire sizes on different rims.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,19346.msg274511.html#msg274511

One more. This is mostly CB750 related sizes. It should be sizes for other bikes too. Rim vs tire most important. Same ideas must fit all bikes using same rim size.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=56494.0


http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=111400.0


I have had changing front rim from 19 to 18 in mind but the dual stock brakes do not allow it, not space enough when I measured. Rim too close/ hit right side caliper bracket.

[grcamna2]

I have used
 100/90-19 or stock 3.25-19 on 1.85 front rim.

 120/90-18 or stock 4.0-18 on  2.15 rear rim.

Per,Have you ever run Heidenau ?

[PeWe]

I have used
 100/90-19 or stock 3.25-19 on 1.85 front rim.

 120/90-18 or stock 4.0-18 on  2.15 rear rim.

Per,Have you ever run Heidenau ?

Yes,
My K6 still has the Heidenau K44 front.
It has used 2 rounds of rear 4.0-18 K36 before.
Better experience than with the Lasertec and Streetsmart.

My K2 has them too. Size 3.25-19 and 4.0-18.
Good stock look.
K44 look almost as Metzeler ME11 and ME77 that still are produced.

I think the front tire on my K2 is not OK, bouncing front despite rim is trued. Tire refitted, tube changed. It does not help with tire mounting grease on rim-tire, inflate to 5-6 BAR, deflate completely and overfill again, reduce to 2.1 BAR.
Even rolled bike with no air to get tire to let go from the rim before inflating it.
Same jumping front. Only tire left. It's visible when riding, tire wobbles a little, rim not.
Same tire model on my K6 is OK.
Might need to replace tire earlier to not stress wheel bearings and myself.
I think I'll order a new tire very soon when thinking about it
My Lasertec front tire was also a jumper, replaced with rear tire when flat.

EDIT:
Thanks to this thread!! New tire ordered to my K6, Metzeler Roadtec 01 90/90-19. A little wider than 3.25-19. Similar height and similar speedo accuracy.

120/90-18 of same model just mounted rear.
The old Heidenau K44 3.25-19 will enter the K2. Only 1mm differ in wear.
If still bouncing, rim is faulty.

The choice is also stock looking tires OR modern OR just best handling vs tire wear/life?

[Stev-o]

bf goodrich radial ta...225/70R/15.....on a ....Camaro?

Close!   275/60R-15 on my friends '69 Chevelle

[grcamna2]

I have used
 100/90-19 or stock 3.25-19 on 1.85 front rim.

 120/90-18 or stock 4.0-18 on  2.15 rear rim.

Per,Have you ever run Heidenau ?

Yes,
My K6 still has the Heidenau K44 front.
It has used 2 rounds of rear 4.0-18 K36 before.
Better experience than with the Lasertec and Streetsmart.

My K2 has them too. Size 3.25-19 and 4.0-18.
Good stock look.
K44 look almost as Metzeler ME11 and ME77 that still are produced.

I think the front tire on my K2 is not OK, bouncing front despite rim is trued. Tire refitted, tube changed. It does not help with tire mounting grease on rim-tire, inflate to 5-6 BAR, deflate completely and overfill again, reduce to 2.1 BAR.
Even rolled bike with no air to get tire to let go from the rim before inflating it.
Same jumping front. Only tire left. It's visible when riding, tire wobbles a little, rim not.
Same tire model on my K6 is OK.
Might need to replace tire earlier to not stress wheel bearings and myself.
I think I'll order a new tire very soon when thinking about it
My Lasertec front tire was also a jumper, replaced with rear tire when flat.

EDIT:
Thanks to this thread!! New tire ordered to my K6, Metzeler Roadtec 01 90/90-19. A little wider than 3.25-19. Similar height and similar speedo accuracy.

120/90-18 of same model just mounted rear.
The old Heidenau K44 3.25-19 will enter the K2. Only 1mm differ in wear.
If still bouncing, rim is faulty.

The choice is also stock looking tires OR modern OR just best handling vs tire wear/life?

How do you 'rate' the over-all performance(wear,handling,smooth running,wet weather grip,weight,price,longevity,etc.)of Heidenau tires compared to other popular brand motorcycle tires,in your opinion ?

[PeWe]

No wet handling tested. I have respect for wet roads, easy to slip fataly. Old oil stains, white lines, metal manhole covers and tar repairs are really slippery when wet.
Only stability feeling on dry roads, when tire started to feel unstable and when replaced.

When it comes to rain, the newer Roadtec 01 has several good reviews. But mostly the radial versions reviewed. For our bikes x-ply diagonal released 2019.

I hope I can test the tires better coming season with Roadtec 01 on front as well.

If you need a stock looking set, the Heidenau's are OK.
 3.25-19 and 4.0-18

If you need better, Metzeler Roadtec 01 available in sizes for our bikes.
Front:
3.25-19
90/90-19
100/90-19
Rear:
4.0-18
120/90-18

Up to you to try. I'm sure most of us have different experiences and minimum demand how tires looks, behaves and cost.

There are many tires I haven't tried. The tires I used in the 80's are not valid now.
Even the Continental K112 I with friends did nit like early 80's has orobably got different rubber mix today.

[Flyin900]

Seems most of these recommendations are now for a 2:15 width CB 750 rear rim and the CB 550 rear is a 1:85 width. The fellow Tower did shed some light with his calculations and info supplied, although that was 13 years ago which may no longer apply to some of the recent tires.
I see Avon has a few tires that can be used as a front or rear depending on the orientation of the tire and rim. They have a 100-90-18 size that maybe closer to the 3:75-18 stock rear tire. I think the 400-18 tire size that has been discussed/proposed is more appropriate for. 2:15 rim width on the CB750 and would be detrimentally pinched on a CB550 1:85 width rim.

[Stev-o]

Seems most of these recommendations are now for a 2:15 width CB 750 rear rim and the CB 550 rear is a 1:85 width.

Yes, but Flatlander is considering buying new rims and would most likely get a 2.15". 
I have considered this as well for my 550.