Topic: What's the most common cause of a weak starter?

[juntjoo]

I'll second trying to crank it with all 4 plugs out and the kill switch off.

Oh, forgot to remove plugs, thanks, will do now...

Feels fine. A little squeaky. Gas in their from excessive cranking with throttle pumping getting gas in there? If so no biggie?

[juntjoo]

And no gas in cylinders stuck a pump in them

[newday777]

Just wanted to post this real quick. It might not be necessary by the time I get back. I'll be moving down all of your suggestions after posting this. I'm hand turning over the engine and it's squeaky. Doesn't feel difficult though the noise indicates to me some incorrect friction. It's short if you got a moment, thanks

This is with starter detached. I'm about to check the starter operation on it's own...

Are the spark plugs out? You know you spun it backwards right??
Be sure to do it forwards with the spark plugs out... Still have the squeak?

[juntjoo]

Ben: sorry if I missed this, but...did you test the voltage at the starter side of the Start solenoid while cranking? This is what DonR is getting at. The contacts inside the relay can be burnt a bit, and then after sitting a long time they corrode. The solenoid comes apart so you can clean off the little shorting bar (or some can just be flipped over to the unused side). Lightly snad off the copper bolt head contacts, too. A drop of oil (not WD40) will also help the solenoid plunger move more fully: it could also be suffering restricted movement from gunk built up in its tube.

Well I just bypassed it with a fat wire. Almost killed the weaker alligator clip. And it performed the same, no better. I should get a couple things clear first though:

If I'm getting 12.5v on my battery, how long should I be able to crank it over before it goes down to 12.1v?it seems to go down real quick and I always have my battery charger connected.

I'll also point out this weak output is intermittent but mostly the case  sometimes, and mostly after I've just charged the battery for a while it turns over really fast. Then quickly goes weak. I recall this being the case since I've had the bike.

I'll keep testing around the solenoid as I just did, directly to the starter to confirm there's  no difference. And if there isn't, that would rule out the solenoid pretty much right? Then we'll be left with the starter itself and possibly the battery? Check one of my vids above. It seems the starter works great but that's with it out of the engine. So maybe that's how would appear. So maybe the circuitry in the starter could be weak as one of you mentioned above?

Again, I did test it out with my truck battery connected behind the bike's battery with same results.

One last thing: I do have a crappy start with all this cranking being necessary which if I didn't this would not be such an issue so maybe I should address this first. I'm sure I have an old thread on this I could revive. But once it gets going it stays going strong. Had it going a bit ago. And it's not cold today down here in SWFL. yeah, I think in the meantime I'll read up on hard starting problems...

[robvangulik]

Why don't you just buy a (good) new battery and be done with it?

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

What results did you get when you had your battery load tested?! If you haven't done this you are just wasting your time and everyone else's.

[juntjoo]

Why don't you just buy a (good) new battery and be done with it?

Are you sure that's what I need? Otherwise I don't wanna get stuck $45 short. I totally would.

[juntjoo]

What results did you get when you had your battery load tested?! If you haven't done this you are just wasting your time and everyone else's.

K, I'll keep that in mind. I tried with my truck battery and same results. And I'm now more concerned with my starting issue, another thread, aside from the electrical part as if it started easier this wouldn't really matter.

[robvangulik]

Why don't you just buy a (good) new battery and be done with it?

Are you sure that's what I need? Otherwise I don't wanna get stuck $45 short. I totally would.

I'll also point out this weak output is intermittent but mostly the case  sometimes, and mostly after I've just charged the battery for a while it turns over really fast. Then quickly goes weak.

I'm quite sure....

[juntjoo]

Why don't you just buy a (good) new battery and be done with it?

Are you sure that's what I need? Otherwise I don't wanna get stuck $45 short. I totally would.

I'll also point out this weak output is intermittent but mostly the case  sometimes, and mostly after I've just charged the battery for a while it turns over really fast. Then quickly goes weak.

I'm quite sure....

Well it says "expert" under your name. And you seem confident. Hey.. Aside from this, and I'll keep your suggestion in mind when I return to this, but what do you think about new plugs. Once it starts it runs great as far as I can tell and I'm a newbie rider and these are the plugs that came with it. Runs great but starts horribly. Ever heard of new plugs fixing a good runner/bad starter bike? If yes, any recommendations on plugs. Never shopped for em. I hear there are "hot" ones and "cold" ones. Or something. Not too keen on plug operation. I'm in SWFL climate. Thanks

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

What results did you get when you had your battery load tested?! If you haven't done this you are just wasting your time and everyone else's.

K, I'll keep that in mind. I tried with my truck battery and same results. And I'm now more concerned with my starting issue, another thread, aside from the electrical part as if it started easier this wouldn't really matter.

This is THE best way to tell the health of your battery. Voltage does not do so.

[juntjoo]

What results did you get when you had your battery load tested?! If you haven't done this you are just wasting your time and everyone else's.

K, I'll keep that in mind. I tried with my truck battery and same results. And I'm now more concerned with my starting issue, another thread, aside from the electrical part as if it started easier this wouldn't really matter.

This is THE best way to tell the health of your battery. Voltage does not do so.

Thanks! Don't know if you saw my other post, wherever I put it asking about voltage going from  13+ down to 12 within a few cranks. Is that normal or an obvious sign of a weak battery? I'll be taking my battery in manana on my way to pick up some plugs

[evinrude7]

What results did you get when you had your battery load tested?! If you haven't done this you are just wasting your time and everyone else's.

K, I'll keep that in mind. I tried with my truck battery and same results. And I'm now more concerned with my starting issue, another thread, aside from the electrical part as if it started easier this wouldn't really matter.

This is THE best way to tell the health of your battery. Voltage does not do so.

Thanks! Don't know if you saw my other post, wherever I put it asking about voltage going from  13+ down to 12 within a few cranks. Is that normal or an obvious sign of a weak battery? I'll be taking my battery in manana on my way to pick up some plugs

13+ isn't right in my opinion.  dropping to 12v within a few cranks not good either.  sounds like you need a new battery. 

[RAFster122s]

I thought you were going to get the battery load tested, please do that...probably have a battery with a cell going on it’s way out and is intermittently working, could have a break indies the battery that is going from solid connection sometimes to intermittent or bad one. Starting puts a heavy load on the battery and battery issues show up first in trying to start the car/motorcycle/mower/etc.

Rotating motor in reverse has the potential to do strange things, the primary chain and cam chain are working in reverse. The cam chain is going up or down the opposite so it could be tensioner or slider complaining about the chain being dragged in reverse of normal direction... But, likely to not figure out where it is coming from...

Get battery tested and share the results then recal what you have done and document it here and in your maintenance log if you created a section to summarize what you repaired and any problems you noodled through or sought advice on. Makes for a story about your bike and it’s issues. You can identify those things you do not understand if you take the time to ask for clarification and get things straight. Sometimes it is useful to repeat back what you heard and your understanding on what stumped you that you might benefit from studying.

[juntjoo]

I thought you were going to get the battery load tested, please do that...probably have a battery with a cell going on it’s way out and is intermittently working, could have a break indies the battery that is going from solid connection sometimes to intermittent or bad one. Starting puts a heavy load on the battery and battery issues show up first in trying to start the car/motorcycle/mower/etc.

Rotating motor in reverse has the potential to do strange things, the primary chain and cam chain are working in reverse. The cam chain is going up or down the opposite so it could be tensioner or slider complaining about the chain being dragged in reverse of normal direction... But, likely to not figure out where it is coming from...

Get battery tested and share the results then recal what you have done and document it here and in your maintenance log if you created a section to summarize what you repaired and any problems you noodled through or sought advice on. Makes for a story about your bike and it’s issues. You can identify those things you do not understand if you take the time to ask for clarification and get things straight. Sometimes it is useful to repeat back what you heard and your understanding on what stumped you that you might benefit from studying.

Thank you! Great advice. I use my threads as a log book, a bit unorganized but sufficient. And I'm getting battery tested later and I ordered plugs too cuz I've got starting issues although bike runs great once starter thanks!

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

13+ should only occur when the battery is attached to a charger. Steady state without charger should be near 12.6V which is what matters first and what you see first. Have the battery topped off charger-wise THEN do the load test. The load test is THE determining factor. This battery stuff is not rocket science. Don't fight it..... This should be the very first test parameter then go from here.

[juntjoo]

13+ should only occur when the battery is attached to a charger. Steady state without charger should be near 12.6V which is what matters first and what you see first. Have the battery topped off charger-wise THEN do the load test. The load test is THE determining factor. This battery stuff is not rocket science. Don't fight it..... This should be the very first test parameter then go from here.

Never done a "load test". Looking it up now. What about how it goes from 13+v(yes after been charged) straight down to 12v after a few cranks? I'm about to take the battery to be tested...

[70CB750]

Weak battery or loose contact.

[RAFster122s]

That's why I think he has a cell or cells going bad or sulfated battery.

[Deltarider]

Never done a "load test". Looking it up now. What about how it goes from 13+v(yes after been charged) straight down to 12v after a few cranks? I'm about to take the battery to be tested...

No test needed. It's quite simple. Have you read reply #3?

[juntjoo]

Never done a "load test". Looking it up now. What about how it goes from 13+v(yes after been charged) straight down to 12v after a few cranks? I'm about to take the battery to be tested...

No test needed. It's quite simple. Have you read reply #3?

Thanks! Yeah, I can miss some details with all the relies. So a "load test" doesn't require that special device and you can check while under "load" cranking and if it goes below 10v it's going bad? I'll remember that.

[juntjoo]

Guys, thanks so much. It was the battery after all. Who do I owe a million dollars to? I'll have to get ya later on that.

She's to start up fine too. Might return the plugs. Runs awesome.

[HondaMan]

There's several things in these small batteries that make them 'weak'.
First is: poor quality, recycled lead, usually from Mexico or China (the latter is the WORST). The Bikemaster and Champion bike batteries are the worst in this category.

Second is: poor quality connections inside the battery. Champion and "Challenger", among others, win this award. These actually have the terminals clamped (crimped) to the plates inside the batteries, a completely STUPID idea. They cost $8-$10 less for this...

Third is: barely charged when made. The best hope fot hese is to: fill the battery with acid, let it sit for 24-48 hours to wet the cells, then charge overnight on a 1-2 amp charger before ever trying to use it. Batteries form India, Indochina, Korea and Mayalsia/Vietnam are like this type.

The best batteries I have found for the 750/500/550 are, in order of my choice (for my own ride) are:
Yuasa
Enersys (if you can fit it into the bike, they have thick casings)
Interstate
Hawker (if your wallet can fit it) - these are spiral-wound power cells of virgin lead with entraped electrolyte. Don't be fooled by the knockoff versions of these made by Exide, which are junk in comparison. These look like a little 6-pack. They will last about 15 years with little care and will deliver 100% performance for at least 10-12 of those years.

There are currently no others that make my "list" for me or my customers/friends.

[juntjoo]

There's several things in these small batteries that make them 'weak'.
First is: poor quality, recycled lead, usually from Mexico or China (the latter is the WORST). The Bikemaster and Champion bike batteries are the worst in this category.

Second is: poor quality connections inside the battery. Champion and "Challenger", among others, win this award. These actually have the terminals clamped (crimped) to the plates inside the batteries, a completely STUPID idea. They cost $8-$10 less for this...

Third is: barely charged when made. The best hope fot hese is to: fill the battery with acid, let it sit for 24-48 hours to wet the cells, then charge overnight on a 1-2 amp charger before ever trying to use it. Batteries form India, Indochina, Korea and Mayalsia/Vietnam are like this type.

The best batteries I have found for the 750/500/550 are, in order of my choice (for my own ride) are:
Yuasa
Enersys (if you can fit it into the bike, they have thick casings)
Interstate
Hawker (if your wallet can fit it) - these are spiral-wound power cells of virgin lead with entraped electrolyte. Don't be fooled by the knockoff versions of these made by Exide, which are junk in comparison. These look like a little 6-pack. They will last about 15 years with little care and will deliver 100% performance for at least 10-12 of those years.

There are currently no others that make my "list" for me or my customers/friends.

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind. I'm guessing all but the really expensive one cost around $70-100(?) as mine was $45 from Walmart. Got the same brand as last time as I just wanted to get it going. I'll get a better one next time, the one you suggested probably that will last a decade or more. This Walmart brand lasted a couple years half of which I didn't even ride the bike. Well it's good to know what my issue was and come to think of it it was doing this most of the time it's been working, struggling to crank the engine over if it didn't start right away and I always credited it to the charging system as you guys informed me of the issues with it with these bikes. But I also just threw in a new rotor too so maybe my dying rotor wasn't treating my battery well. Idk. We'll see now with a new rotor and battery.

[754]

Might return the plugs.. Hilarious... I hope in the rest of my life I never have to meet anyone in person like that....