Author Topic: Squirrel 3.0  (Read 16492 times)

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Offline river

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Re: Squirrel 3.0
« Reply #50 on: February 14, 2021, 08:14:18 AM »
Not a lot to report as life seems to be getting in the way. I got all the bearings and seals into the rear hub. I was putting one of the retainers into the rear and just wasn't thinking clearly at all (mind was pre-occupied with some work stuff). It felt bad right away but stubbornly I pushed on and eventually realized Hulk needed to stop but it was too late and didn't want to move in either direction. After letting penetrating oil work for a day I eventually got the retainer back out and it was trashed. Internal threads on the hub were gnarly too.

internal 1 by Chris Neumann, on Flickr

internal 2 by Chris Neumann, on Flickr

retainer by Chris Neumann, on Flickr

I thought for sure I was at square one again. I talked with half a dozen machine shops in person and on the phone and all said the hub was done and couldn't be repaired. I decided to try one more place on the way home and the guy I spoke with told me to bring it on in. I got there and saw this little old man wearing shorts, a cardigan sweater, sandals, and mismatched socks. He looked at it and then told me to follow him into his shop. He quickly grabbed some taps and started looking for the right one as a chicken ran around the shop. When he found it he started going to work on the threads by hand. Out of ignorance, I almost stopped him because I was worried he might be making things worse. Shouldn't the precision of a lathe be involved here?? Slowly but surely, the retainer (threading in backwards to have fresh threads) started going in and I felt like a jerk for questioning him. He was able to fix both internal threads and the retainer that I managed to destroy. Then he tossed the retainer in the lathe and took a bit off the face to make it look new again. As he worked, he kept telling me stories about his childhood in South Africa and the chicken continued to do laps. I had the best time watching him work. In the end he charged me $50 but I would have gladly paid him twice that. At a time when it seems most of the nation has lost it's mind, he kind of restored some faith for me. 

So I'm back on track but need to order new bearings and seals and get the rear hub completed. I've been searching high and low for the pieces I need for the rear caliper rebuild (both brake pad pins, a pad spring, a collar link that takes up the slop where the torsion bar mounts at the caliper, and a funky seal that I'd like to replace). I found one new pin but it cost me $25. Still looking for the rest of the stuff but Godffery was able to send me some links so I need to make some calls (thanks Jeff!).

About mid-week a box showed up and inside was a TTR400 swingarm that Cal graciously agreed to let go of (appreciate it friend). I managed to get it installed. Last night I loosely hung the exhaust again because I would love to grind off the passenger peg mounts when I get rid of all the ugly stock drum brake mounts/tabs but I use the right side one to support the muffler. Initially, my thought was to use a spring and hang it off the rearset to support the muffler but the bolt is pretty recessed on the back of it and that won't work. So now I'm thinking about welding a small tab onto the frame behind the rearset and using that to support the muffler but for the short term I'll use a P clamp. 

swingarm by Chris Neumann, on Flickr

Squirrel 1.0 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,127186.2050.
ml

Squirrel 2.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,176846.msg2055831.html#msg2055831

Squirrel 3.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,185362.msg2146449.html#msg2146449


"You wouldn't think that out here...a man could simply run clear...out of country but oh my...oh my...nothing but the light." -Ben Nichols

Offline Stev-o

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Re: Squirrel 3.0
« Reply #51 on: February 15, 2021, 08:46:10 AM »
Great story about the crazy old man and the chicken!
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline river

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Re: Squirrel 3.0
« Reply #52 on: February 19, 2021, 07:40:44 PM »
One of the golden pins showed up. It's glorious.

the golden pin by Chris Neumann, on Flickr

Tonight I got the bearings and seals installed in the rear hub and then put it on the bike to have a look.

fine by Chris Neumann, on Flickr

rear by Chris Neumann, on Flickr

Now I'm a little unsure how to proceed. I'm nervous about determining what spacers I'll need. Not sure why. I'm still waiting on some parts for the caliper to show up and then I need to rebuild it. But I think the rear wheel is very close to needing to be built. Also debating on whether or not I do that or have it done for me. I've done a lot of bicycle wheels but no motorcycle wheels.
Squirrel 1.0 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,127186.2050.
ml

Squirrel 2.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,176846.msg2055831.html#msg2055831

Squirrel 3.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,185362.msg2146449.html#msg2146449


"You wouldn't think that out here...a man could simply run clear...out of country but oh my...oh my...nothing but the light." -Ben Nichols

Offline seanbarney41

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Re: Squirrel 3.0
« Reply #53 on: February 19, 2021, 08:38:00 PM »
Once the wheel is laced correctly, it is really just a matter of tightening up the spokes patiently so you don't tweak the wheel all out of whack.  Really seems like you are the type of guy that is capable of such things.  Do it up.
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: Squirrel 3.0
« Reply #54 on: February 20, 2021, 07:28:18 AM »
I have a Harbor Freight truing stand in the basement if you would like to use it.
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline river

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Re: Squirrel 3.0
« Reply #55 on: February 20, 2021, 07:57:38 AM »
For some reason, I was way over thinking things last night when it came to establishing the correct spacing since I'm now using an aftermarket swingarm and 750 hub and caliper. I ended up making sure the axle nut was installed and had enough threads sticking out of it.

axle nut by Chris Neumann, on Flickr

Then I centered the hub on the axle and used the flanges and the inside of each shock as reference points. I made sure the caliper was up against the right side of the hub as it is stock and then measured the space on the left side of the hub and the space on the right side of the caliper.

spacing by Chris Neumann, on Flickr

I used a feeler gauge on the right side and got .55mm.

caliper side by Chris Neumann, on Flickr

On the left side I eyeballed the space with a tape measure after a few beers and got 3/16" but today I'll stack feeler gauges and get a better estimate.  ;D  Then I think I'll visit my new friend with the lathe and chicken again!!

left side by Chris Neumann, on Flickr
Squirrel 1.0 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,127186.2050.
ml

Squirrel 2.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,176846.msg2055831.html#msg2055831

Squirrel 3.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,185362.msg2146449.html#msg2146449


"You wouldn't think that out here...a man could simply run clear...out of country but oh my...oh my...nothing but the light." -Ben Nichols

Offline seanbarney41

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Re: Squirrel 3.0
« Reply #56 on: February 20, 2021, 10:18:23 AM »
What about chain alignment?
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline Stev-o

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Re: Squirrel 3.0
« Reply #57 on: February 20, 2021, 10:35:38 AM »
What about chain alignment?

My thought as well.

The parts looks fantastic, Riverman
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline river

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Re: Squirrel 3.0
« Reply #58 on: February 20, 2021, 11:09:37 AM »
See that’s what I’m not sure. What’s the best way to go about making sure everything is in line?
Squirrel 1.0 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,127186.2050.
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Squirrel 2.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,176846.msg2055831.html#msg2055831

Squirrel 3.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,185362.msg2146449.html#msg2146449


"You wouldn't think that out here...a man could simply run clear...out of country but oh my...oh my...nothing but the light." -Ben Nichols

Offline river

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Re: Squirrel 3.0
« Reply #59 on: February 20, 2021, 03:04:22 PM »
Spent time today grinding off the passenger peg mounts and the mounts for the stock drum brake.

left by Chris Neumann, on Flickr

right by Chris Neumann, on Flickr

right2 by Chris Neumann, on Flickr

right3 by Chris Neumann, on Flickr
Squirrel 1.0 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,127186.2050.
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Squirrel 2.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,176846.msg2055831.html#msg2055831

Squirrel 3.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,185362.msg2146449.html#msg2146449


"You wouldn't think that out here...a man could simply run clear...out of country but oh my...oh my...nothing but the light." -Ben Nichols

Offline seanbarney41

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Re: Squirrel 3.0
« Reply #60 on: February 20, 2021, 05:46:53 PM »
See that’s what I’m not sure. What’s the best way to go about making sure everything is in line?
I don't really know...all the components you are using were designed to work with sohc honda's?  Time for some research to see what parts work with what and how.  It really helps to have access to all the different bikes that donated the parts.  If it were me, I would start by lining up the sprockets and then see what combination of spacers fits in the swingarm.  This could result in the front and rear wheel being out of line but I doubt it would be enough to affect anything? ..I dunno.  I don't think front and rear wheels were aligned or centered in the frame necessarily from the factory?...I dunno
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline Godffery

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Re: Squirrel 3.0
« Reply #61 on: February 20, 2021, 06:44:09 PM »
chain alignment laser.
 

Offline wolf550

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Re: Squirrel 3.0
« Reply #62 on: February 20, 2021, 07:05:15 PM »
on mine with the 750 swingarm the chain is pretty straight on with the sprocket on the wheel.
it is more straight than when I had the 650 reverse comstar wheels on it, the chain was at an angle.
and it is way more straight than the 750 comstars that I tried to put on but the chain was way off center.

sorry I took a pic with the chain guard on
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Offline RAFster122s

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Re: Squirrel 3.0
« Reply #63 on: February 20, 2021, 08:09:48 PM »
Laser levels cal help you to determine if they are lined up or not and by how much. Shoot the level from the rear sprocket and then slide it on the axle from side to side to make it line up best if not dead nut on. Any angle change between front yo rear or offset will increase wear on your sprockets and chain.
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Offline river

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Re: Squirrel 3.0
« Reply #65 on: February 21, 2021, 08:38:54 AM »
The only way I can see to make damn sure that the chain is straight AND the tire is centered in the swingarm is to install the offset sprockets and check the chain line (thank you for the tip on the laser tool Jeff that will make things easy) and THEN measure the hub flanges like I did. Then I'll know if the rim will need to come one way or the other to make sure the tire is centered in the swingarm.

I assumed that motorcycle wheels had the hub centered on the rim. But this scenario may mean that rear wheel will require a bit of dish. That's precisely how bicycle rear wheels are built and what I'm used to worrying about. I imagine that without a dishing tool, the process will be longer because I'll have to keep throwing the wheel on the axle and measure frequently but it seems to me that with all of these frankenparts being used together that it's probably the best way to make sure things are correct and safe. Please let me know if I'm overlooking something and thanks for guidance.
Squirrel 1.0 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,127186.2050.
ml

Squirrel 2.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,176846.msg2055831.html#msg2055831

Squirrel 3.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,185362.msg2146449.html#msg2146449


"You wouldn't think that out here...a man could simply run clear...out of country but oh my...oh my...nothing but the light." -Ben Nichols

Offline Stev-o

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Re: Squirrel 3.0
« Reply #66 on: February 22, 2021, 04:35:25 PM »
I assumed that motorcycle wheels had the hub centered on the rim.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not believe this is always the case.  Keep in mind most of these CB's have a sprocket carrier on one side and a brake panel on the other, they fit into the hub differently, the large spacer is on the right. I didnt measure it, but on my 550F, it doesnt appear the tire is centered in the swingarm.

Now, you are running a disc so that makes it even more fun for you!
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: Squirrel 3.0
« Reply #67 on: February 23, 2021, 03:49:31 PM »
Where do you buy the laser line chain alignment tool? How much are they?
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline river

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Re: Squirrel 3.0
« Reply #68 on: February 23, 2021, 07:04:35 PM »
I found this one while searching. I think it was about $40.

https://www.tru-tension.com/best-motorcycle-chain-alignment-tool/
Squirrel 1.0 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,127186.2050.
ml

Squirrel 2.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,176846.msg2055831.html#msg2055831

Squirrel 3.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,185362.msg2146449.html#msg2146449


"You wouldn't think that out here...a man could simply run clear...out of country but oh my...oh my...nothing but the light." -Ben Nichols

Offline Sano

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Re: Squirrel 3.0
« Reply #69 on: February 24, 2021, 08:12:42 AM »
your eyeball is an amazingly accurate alignment tool.  As a first check you should be able to pretty easily detect any significant alignment issue by sighting along an installed chain from the rear.  Alternately you can remove chain, shock and front sprocket cover and us a straight edge of the correct length that is layed flat against the face of rear sprocket and the face of front sprocket.  Unmolested steel flat stock can be accurate enough.  I have a precision milled straightedge that works perfect for this.  I don’t believe motorcycle wheels are dished like bike wheels.  Flattening one sides spokes reduces triangulation between hub flange and center of wheel  which makes for a weaker wheel (laterally).

Offline river

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Re: Squirrel 3.0
« Reply #70 on: February 24, 2021, 05:36:15 PM »
Finding all of the small parts for the rear caliper was difficult. I found two NOS brake pad pins and they ran about $60 with shipping. The joint seal (it's a squared o-ring) was super tricky to find but I got one for about $20. I could NOT locate a brake pad spring or the pad shims so I bought a Goldwing caliper and hoped they were there. They were. I got everything cleaned up tonight and threw it together to see how it would look. I still need to order a rebuild kit and new pads but those will be easy to find. This is the gnarly GW caliper.

#$%*ty caliper by Chris Neumann, on Flickr

And here's the 750 caliper that Jerry hooked me up with. Thanks again Jerry.

pretty caliper by Chris Neumann, on Flickr
Squirrel 1.0 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,127186.2050.
ml

Squirrel 2.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,176846.msg2055831.html#msg2055831

Squirrel 3.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,185362.msg2146449.html#msg2146449


"You wouldn't think that out here...a man could simply run clear...out of country but oh my...oh my...nothing but the light." -Ben Nichols

Offline river

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Re: Squirrel 3.0
« Reply #71 on: February 24, 2021, 05:39:01 PM »
your eyeball is an amazingly accurate alignment tool.  As a first check you should be able to pretty easily detect any significant alignment issue by sighting along an installed chain from the rear.  Alternately you can remove chain, shock and front sprocket cover and us a straight edge of the correct length that is layed flat against the face of rear sprocket and the face of front sprocket.  Unmolested steel flat stock can be accurate enough.  I have a precision milled straightedge that works perfect for this.  I don’t believe motorcycle wheels are dished like bike wheels.  Flattening one sides spokes reduces triangulation between hub flange and center of wheel  which makes for a weaker wheel (laterally).

Good thoughts. I think once I get the offset sprockets, I'll eye things up or use a straight edge like you said (Steve-O also suggested I go that route) and see how things look and slide the hub laterally until I'm happy with chain line and then see where the tire would be and then go from there.
Squirrel 1.0 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,127186.2050.
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Squirrel 2.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,176846.msg2055831.html#msg2055831

Squirrel 3.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,185362.msg2146449.html#msg2146449


"You wouldn't think that out here...a man could simply run clear...out of country but oh my...oh my...nothing but the light." -Ben Nichols

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: Squirrel 3.0
« Reply #72 on: February 24, 2021, 09:45:24 PM »
Finding all of the small parts for the rear caliper was difficult. I found two NOS brake pad pins and they ran about $60 with shipping. The joint seal (it's a squared o-ring) was super tricky to find but I got one for about $20. I could NOT locate a brake pad spring or the pad shims so I bought a Goldwing caliper and hoped they were there. They were. I got everything cleaned up tonight and threw it together to see how it would look. I still need to order a rebuild kit and new pads but those will be easy to find. This is the gnarly GW caliper.

#$%*ty caliper by Chris Neumann, on Flickr

And here's the 750 caliper that Jerry hooked me up with. Thanks again Jerry.

pretty caliper by Chris Neumann, on Flickr

Wow! It's coming together nicely, Chris.
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Offline river

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Re: Squirrel 3.0
« Reply #73 on: March 06, 2021, 02:57:32 PM »
Here's an update. With the rotor bolted to the hub, the caliper needs to come to the right a fair amount and the left side of the hub hits the inside of the left shock.

2 by Chris Neumann, on Flickr

Rotor hits the right side pad but there's a lot of space between rotor and left side pad.

4 by Chris Neumann, on Flickr

5 by Chris Neumann, on Flickr

Caliper looks like it would need a fair amount of machining to move to the right.

7 by Chris Neumann, on Flickr

I installed a 77 swingarm that came with the axle (thanks Don) and I found the stock left and right side spacer and put that all on last night. Problem now is there's too much room and the hub and caliper slide left and right. Cmsnl shows that 75/76 and 77/78 use the same spacers but a different axle. Should I use a 75/76 swingarm and have everything back there from the same years? Should I try a 75/76 axle with this swingarm? Thank you for any help because I feel like I need to get everything lined up back there before moving any further.

10 by Chris Neumann, on Flickr

11 by Chris Neumann, on Flickr

12 by Chris Neumann, on Flickr



With the rotor bolted to the hub, the caliper needs to be a fair bit more to the right and with no spacers at all the hub hits the inside of the swingarm on the left side as well as the shock. On the right side, the caliper also hits the inside of the right shock. I do not see this swingarm working unless there is some machining to the caliper and hub and I'm not willing to do that.

I have a 77 swingarm that came with the tensioners and axle (thanks Don!). I ordered the left side spacer as well as the spacer that goes between the caliper and hub to see if that would work better.
Squirrel 1.0 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,127186.2050.
ml

Squirrel 2.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,176846.msg2055831.html#msg2055831

Squirrel 3.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,185362.msg2146449.html#msg2146449


"You wouldn't think that out here...a man could simply run clear...out of country but oh my...oh my...nothing but the light." -Ben Nichols

Offline river

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Re: Squirrel 3.0
« Reply #74 on: March 06, 2021, 03:38:35 PM »
The other thing I'm not 100% sure on is whether or not I have the correct spacers. This is what I have for left and right.

spacers by Chris Neumann, on Flickr
Squirrel 1.0 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,127186.2050.
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Squirrel 2.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,176846.msg2055831.html#msg2055831

Squirrel 3.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,185362.msg2146449.html#msg2146449


"You wouldn't think that out here...a man could simply run clear...out of country but oh my...oh my...nothing but the light." -Ben Nichols