Topic: Possibly moving to Michigan; Need ideas for "Garage" layout.

[onepieceatatime]

I grew up in Boon, Michigan. I left 21 years ago, when I joined the Army and have been living in Maryland and Pennsylvania since 2001. I might have an opportunity to move back home in the next couple of months.
Years ago, my parents offered to give me 10 of their 40 acres, to build on. Mom says the offer is still valid if I want to build a house, and I can stay in her motorhome (my sister and her 3 kids are in the house, so no room there) until it is complete. For a house, I want a smallish ranch style with a walkout basement. More important than the house though, is a nice pole barn for a garage.

I need ideas, square footage, doors, height, layout, etc.
I know I want it to be insulated, and I want to eventually put in a vehicle lift, since I do most of my own vehicle maintenance.

I need to have room for:
1977 Ranger F-150 XLT
1994 F-350 quad cab, long bed
1972 CB750
1974 CB450
(2) 1977 CB750s
1980 CB650
1982 CM450
1997 Goldwing
Future project motorcycles
blacksmithing tools (2 forges, 2 anvils, hammers, etc)
2 welders and 2 oxy-acetylene torch sets
3 work benches
Drill press
motorcycle parts storage
computerized wheel balancer
riding mower
air compressor
various other tools and tool boxes
and work space
My fiancé would probably appreciate a place to park her Subaru Outback too.

If you know or can recommend anyone in the Cadillac/Boon area for well drilling, septic installation, house building, driveway construction, pole barn building, and anything else I am not currently remembering, please let me know!

[grcamna2]

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[onepieceatatime]

I was messing around with ideas... not to scale.
Any thoughts on this layout? What's good about it, what wouldn't work in your opinion?
If I am spending the money to build it, I don't want to realize too late something should have been different.

[grcamna2]

You'll be near Forests,that's nice 

[onepieceatatime]

You'll be near Forests,that's nice 

It will be!
Hopefully have more time for hunting and fishing too!

After more thought, I shrank the size of the office space, or mancave, if that's what you want to call it, since I do not plan on running a business.
I almost forgot that I'll need some kind of nice wood stove in the large bay to keep the place warm. I still have to figure out where to put that.
The 24 x 24 bay will just be for parking, so no need to heat it.

[BenelliSEI]

Some food for thought..... I added my “forever shop” to the side of an existing 24 x 48’, pole barn building. It’s long and skinny (suits the building). Works well for a small race car and a few bikes, or (today), lots of bikes! I heated the entire place with in floor tubing. It’s about 18’ x 48’. I heat and light the entire shop, but only work in one, small area......

So here’s my advice. Make the small space the well light, heated space, with the lift. The larger bay leave unheated, with powered doors, for vehicle parking and storage space. We all just work on one or two projects at once, the rest are just parked.

[BigJimG]

Southeast Michigan here with family in the Cadillac area.

Don't cheap out on insulation.  When my Dad built his new shop, he used 2x6 walls with r19 fiberglass insulation and R30+ in the trusses, it's better insulated than either of our houses.

Consider propane/nat gas (if available) for heating.  Yes the wood burning stove is nice, and may be cheaper since you live in a wooded area.  But there's also a reason my Dad needed to build a new shop...    (I lost a '74K along with a lot of other $tuff...)  Maybe an external wood fired boiler if you must heat with wood.

Breakup cold storage vs workspace, no sense of keeping idle projects warm, but maybe insulate the area anyway incase you decide to heat later. 

I would try to separate the blacksmithing tools from rest of the workspace if possible, that tends to be a dirtier job.

Consider an attached garage for the daily drivers / wife's stuff.

I'm pretty sure Wexford County requires engineered septic fields in all new construction, so factor that into your costs.  My Mom's Uncle used to do that type of work on the side before he passed a couple of years ago, I don't know if my cousin has kept up the side business.

I have another cousin in Marion who is an electrician, but last I knew he was only doing commercial buildings.

[mrbreeze]

Following. I have been thinking along the same lines of setting up a large shop building in the future that would house cars and bikes and provide a heated space to work through the winter months. I don't have the property yet but between my son & his family and myself, it could be possible. It does get cold and miserable out here in Wyoming wintertime and a nice shop would definitely help to cure the cabin fever.

[seanbarney41]

Cadillac is right in the heart of Michigan's very extensive ORV trail system...you are gonna want some dirt bikes.  Endless miles of great road riding too!  I want to buy some property up there some day.

[BenelliSEI]

Insulation for sure! I had the exterior walls and ceiling of mine spray foamed. Amazing stuff I only run my floor heating system for 5-6 hours after midnight, and all the investment in insulation pays back all day. With a bit of sun, I’m comfortable until late afternoon. I do have a small overhead electric furnace, for really cool afternoons.

If you invest in really good windows, doors, and insulation, don’t forget an exhaust fans. I put a 24” X 24” barn fan in one end wall of my place. After using solvents, paints or even my cleaning tank, it’s good to be able to open a window and let the fan run for a few minutes!

[onepieceatatime]

Well, you all have given me plenty to think about.

Cadillac is right in the heart of Michigan's very extensive ORV trail system...you are gonna want some dirt bikes.  Endless miles of great road riding too!  I want to buy some property up there some day.

I was thinking along the lines of an old XL250. Also probably going to get a snowmobile at some point.

Consider propane/nat gas (if available) for heating.  Yes the wood burning stove is nice, and may be cheaper since you live in a wooded area.  But there's also a reason my Dad needed to build a new shop...    (I lost a '74K along with a lot of other $tuff...)  Maybe an external wood fired boiler if you must heat with wood.

Propane, heating oil, and wood are really the only options in the area, but the external boiler is a good suggestion, I'll look into that. Sorry to hear you lost a nice bike that way.

Breakup cold storage vs workspace, no sense of keeping idle projects warm, but maybe insulate the area anyway incase you decide to heat later. 
I would try to separate the blacksmithing tools from rest of the workspace if possible, that tends to be a dirtier job.

What you are saying makes sense form an energy efficiency point of view, but I also would like to keep the classic vehicles in a climate controlled area.
I'll probably build a small smithy later, but for now will just need a place for everything to live until I am settled in.

I heated the entire place with in floor tubing. It’s about 18’ x 48’. I heat and light the entire shop, but only work in one, small area......

So here’s my advice. Make the small space the well light, heated space, with the lift. The larger bay leave unheated, with powered doors, for vehicle parking and storage space. We all just work on one or two projects at once, the rest are just parked.

I see the logic to this, and a heated floor would be nice, but I always worry about "what if the tubing springs a leak?".

[BenelliSEI]

Under floor heating has beeen around long enough, that’s not a concern..... having sad that, even in my not so large shop, I dropped three separate loops. They are all valves separately, so in the event of a failure, I can still run at 66%......

[rb550four]

   You could run some extra lines if it makes you feel better, pex is cheap and easy to work with ....you  should cap one end and pressure test the lines first. You would be looking at a continuous lines ( each loop up to 300 ft in length ) from start to finish within 2 feet from each end, easy peasy , once you are convinced you have no leakage you hook one end into the out going manifold with shut off valves for each line and the other end for the return manifold  with pumps and shut off valves on each outgoing line like Bennelli did so if you should ever detect a leakage issue ,you can isolate the suspected failed line. There really is no reason for line failure unless you drill into it for some reason, plan your car lift and be sure to route your pex around the floor mounting bolt area. You'll be tying the pex to 6 x6 mesh so it doesn't move or float when you pour the concrete around it , it stays where you tie it. It is very nice to have warm floors, especially if you work on your knees.
  I was worried about these kind of issues when the idea of slab heat was new, well not really new, the Romains had it but didn't have pex, that was a game changer  and issues usually don't happen unless someone drills into it or the slab fails badly, in that case the water line should  be the least of your  worries. don't forget to insulate the floor before you lay the mesh so the heat will be directed upward instead of being wasted on heating dirt.
  You could compartmentalize each room for heat and not have to use it all so you would always have the option to turn on the heat throughout the entire structure as you see fit.
   Foam insulation is the way to go to control heat costs due to heat escape. There won't be much heat loss with 3 1/2" foam walls and 7 1/2" foam on the ceilng rock. don't forget the sill seal under the walls, it helps.
   We all know that no garage will ever be big enough........lay out this garage on your acreage so that you can easily add on to it when it is time

[Don R]

 I once had cheap insulated garage doors installed by a buddy, this go around I bought 4 new Ideal doors at Menards with windows in the top for light and 2" foam cores sections. I got a pro to hang them tight and my heat bill just keeps going down. I did 6" walls full of fiberglass and 8" in the rafters. Gas forced air, I learned the hard way if I turn down to 40* the furnace makes condensation and the heat exchanger rusts out. I keep it 55 or warmer now. I did consider feeding the combustion blower with heated air but a warm shop is nice too.

[grcamna2]

I once had cheap insulated garage doors installed by a buddy, this go around I bought 4 new Ideal doors at Menards with windows in the top for light and 2" foam cores sections. I got a pro to hang them tight and my heat bill just keeps going down. I did 6" walls full of fiberglass and 8" in the rafters. Gas forced air, I learned the hard way if I turn down to 40* the furnace makes condensation and the heat exchanger rusts out. I keep it 55 or warmer now. I did consider feeding the combustion blower with heated air but a warm shop is nice too.

Yes,a warm shop is nice.