Topic: Winter/Spring lay-up work 2020/2021

[Kevin D]

This is my first project thread even though I have been a member here from the early days. I have had a great riding season this year even though the start was delayed due to lockdown. My day rides on my Honda was about the only recreational activity open to me in 2020 so I made the most of it. For 2021 I have a couple opportunities for next level riding: overnight travel to Ohio’s Windy Nine and a visit to Benellis in Ontario for a vintage MC party. Either trip will be hundreds, maybe 1000 miles. So, the CB at 91000 miles has to be in tiptop shape and as comfortable as possible for me.

 - I replaced the original rear shocks with Hagons several years back. They are fitted with 23kg springs and set at the minimum preload. It’s tolerable, but harsh. I’m working with Hagon GB to get a lesser spring. I have to fashion a spring compressor. I don’t have lathe mill drill press to make this kind of stuff.

 - At the front end, I have unusual tire wear, scalloping and off center. Maybe not unusual for BT45. I have had some input at the 20/100/2020 thread that others have noted this same type of wear, thanks guys. I try to run about 37/38psi, and not the 30psi? that was standard in 1970.

 - Also at the front end, I’m picking up some minimal kind of vibration through the handlebars:
B-d-d-d-d-d-smooooooth-B-d-d-d-d-d-smooooooth-B-d-d-d-d-d-smooooooth-    on a few seconds interval.
It happens even on expected smooth pavement. I have never done any upgrades on the front suspension, only the occasional fluid change with ATF, one time leaky seal replacement, and tapered roller bearings in the triple tree. I’m thinking I need more dampening, maybe new springs? A 1” preload spacer? emulators?

- I have a small fluid seep from the front brake piston that must be addressed. At the last brake service I got new pads, seal, phenolic piston, holding arm from godffrey, and it has been good for several years.  Prior to that I got a new seal and pads, reused original piston with minor rust divots and it was also good for several years until a seep began.

- My starter clutch is acting up just the tiniest bit. I have the roller/spring kit from Yamiya and a rotor puller, but not the $150? gear. I hope to refinish the chatter marks on the gear and avoid the $150? cost of a new gear.  It’s only occasional misbehavior, but it won’t get better without service, it will only get worse.
 Also have the oil seepage at the alternator wires. That seep might be stopped while I’m into the starter clutch.

- I have a K2 luggage rack to fit, it came without its hardware kit, and as my CB is a K1 the turn signals don’t have have the correct mount. I will be seeking some used parts here, new $100? ouch!

That’s most of it, a lot for me, probably not too much for all you builders. I have to start rounding up material. Anybody in US getting parts form Yamiya in a timely manner?

[Kevin D]

Tire wear 2020, scalloped and off center
Tire wear 2011, severely scalloped after 8000 miles

[StockRider]

Anybody in US getting parts form Yamiya in a timely manner?

Ordered several small bits and pieces from Yamiya on 12/08, shipped on 12/08, and made it to Central Illinois, USA on 12/14 via UPS.

[newday777]

Tire scalloping also known as cupping is caused by a loose point in the steering bearing race, which is results of a dent in the race by hitting bumps. Replace the round ball steering bearings with tapered bearings, properly torqued with a torque wrench and castle nut socket.

When you change the fork oil, do you disassemble the forks and totally wash out the out gunk in the bottom? If not start there and replace the bushing.
There is a lot in play to give the action you mentioned of the forks. Different lengths in springs and spacers can give that to your ride(never assume that even new springs are the same length sent to you. You have to measure every thing.
Uneven fork oil levels also play into the fork action you mentioned. Use a fork oil suction tool to get equal oil levels nit just by liquid pouring in measurements.

https://www.motosport.com/product/?cc=us&gclsrc=ds>_Fork_and_Shock_Maintenance=>_Suspension_Parts_and_Accessories_=&key=Motion-Pro-Fork-Oil-Level-Gauge&product_id=MOP002G-X001-Y001&psreferrer=https://www.bing.com/&pssource=true&segment=badger&utm_campaign=Shopping+-+Dirt+Bike+Parts+-+B&utm_content=Dirt+Bike+Parts+&utm_medium=pla&utm_source=bing&utm_term=4580771602876218&variant=MOP002G-X001-Y001&variant[MOP002G]=MOP002G-X001-Y001

[Kevin D]

Thanks for your input sirs.

It’s good to know that even with the holiday season+covid that Yamiya shipping is timely. Thanks StockRider.

newday, I have not been thorough with my fork oil changes, probably a flush until clean if nasty stuff came out. I haven’t yet started on this winter work so I don’t know what I will encounter. I hadn’t noted any kind of rattle in any of the front end parts. The guide bushing at the top of the fork tube is €38, not currently available 51451-319-000, but I have found the piston at CMSNL for €29, 51442-300-000P.
 The manual describes the piston and the lower case as the wear items in the front fork.
 The tapered roller bearings were installed (2007 61000mi) several years back, thoroughly lubed, properly snugged, but no follow up has been done.
 I have an old timey baby bottle used for fork oil filling and while I can’t say the quantity is exactly 7.0oz, I can say that both are equally filled.

I’m hoping that a fluid change/flush, bearing snug, spring tune/replace, new tire will take care of this.

Bushing
Piston

[Kevin D]

 I put the first wrench on my CB today, removing a rear shock for disassembly. I found a suitable and safe spring compressor in my garage, a 1” ratchet strap! It worked like a charm as the springs only needed 1/4” compression to remove the keepers. I’m not the first guy to use a ratchet strap, I found this using Google advanced search.
 I also noted a wear bar showing on my rear BT45, and since the front tire is also shot it’s might be time to switch brands. I have been using Bridgestones since putting my CB back on the road in 2002. The first set were Spitfires, and the rest have been BattleAx BT45’s. The Spitfires were available locally, but with a computer and a PayPal you can get whatever you want. I’m looking at ContiGo’s now, in the inch sizes, instead of the 120/90-18 and 100/90-19 that I have been using. Anybody using them?

[Stev-o]

 - At the front end, I have unusual tire wear, scalloping and off center. Maybe not unusual for BT45.  I try to run about 37/38psi, and not the 30psi? that was standard in 1970.

Hey Kevin...I recently noticed unusual tire wear on the front of my K4's BT45 as well.  A couple years back, I refreshed it with tapered bearings, new Progressive springs and of course fork oil. I run pressure 38psi.
My tire is at least 5-6 years old so I will just replace, but now you have me thinking why?

Subscribed to follow your progress.

[Kevin D]

Stev-o,
 I have had some input from Terry, who has given up on BT45’s due to this front tire wear. He is on many other forums and apparently this kind of front bt45 wear is not specific to CB750.
I’m looking at ContiGo, also Michelin Pilot Activ. Avon and Metzeler sold out.

[Stev-o]

I’m looking at ContiGo, also Michelin Pilot Activ. Avon and Metzeler sold out.

Avon and Continental are both great tires, I run them on my Kawasakis.

[Kelly E]

Have you found a solution for the stiff spring issue. I have Hagon shocks on my 74' 550 and they are much too strong. I ordered the spring for a 150lb rider but my 250lb friend can hardly budge the rear suspension. It has been a couple of years since I bought them and I recently finished the bike only to find out that it's way too stiff to ride. Hagon told me to try the place I bought them (Dime City Cycles) instead of trying to help me figure out what springs I do need for their shocks.

[Kevin D]

Have you found a solution for the stiff spring issue. I have Hagon shocks on my 74' 550 and they are much too strong. I ordered the spring for a 150lb rider but my 250lb friend can hardly budge the rear suspension. It has been a couple of years since I bought them and I recently finished the bike only to find out that it's way too stiff to ride. Hagon told me to try the place I bought them (Dime City Cycles) instead of trying to help me figure out what springs I do need for their shocks.

Yes Kelly, I have new springs on the way from UK, 20kg, to replace the 23 kg springs that came on the shocks. $125 shipped. I don’t know a thing about spring rates, but at $125 a pair, I hope the 20s will be good. When I bought these, I was expecting an occasional passenger and that got me the 23’s. I was told by Hagon that 20’s are standard for a 220lb rider. I asked about other spring rates but didn’t get any other info. Maybe there is something buried in the Hagon website.
 The ratchet strap worked very well to compress the spring and release the keepers, $12(?) for 4 at Harbor Freight.
The hardest part was lacing the strap correctly. The spring weight is marked on the end and 214mm is the unloaded spring length.
 I have never shopped at Dime City, do they offer alternate springs?

[Kevin D]

When we had Hagon USA (aka Dave Quinn),  Dave offered one free spring change if your new shock/spring combo was unsuitable. With shipping costs being what they are, I understand why Hagon UK doesn’t make that offer. Maybe Dime City will pick up that slack.

[Kevin D]

It’s almost a month has passed since I made my material orders.
The tires and tubes showed up pronto.
The rear shock springs came almost as fast, from UK, but while they are lighter at 20kg vs 23kg and will fit the shock body, they are a wider diameter than the originals and the spring covers will not fit over them. If I use the wider springs I will give up the stock look, functionally ok but not what I want. I went to this vendor because their shocks perform well and resemble the originals. So after much correspondence I am patiently waiting for the correct springs to arrive.
The comprehensive parts order with 15 items, brakes sprockets gaskets lighting, was being held as one of the 15 items is back ordered. But more correspondence and maybe I’ll get 14/15 soon.

So I’m sitting here watching it snow 17f, 2-4” today, 6-12” midweek and 0f in the forecast.
The most important thing from Moderna was received early February so I am counting my blessings.

[Kevin D]

Finally... my 14/15 parts order from DSS showed up Saturday 2/20. The front sprocket will be along sometime soon.

The 20kg slimline chrome shock springs showed up today 2/22 from British Cycle Supply in Wolfville, Nova Scotia. They also have a big warehouse in Limestone, Maine to service the US customers. I’d not been aware of their business but if you’re a Triumph/BSA/Norton owner, I’d bet that you know them. They have a terrific customer bike gallery that’s about to get a submission from me..... and they are a Hagon dealer. I probably would have been way ahead if I had started at British Cycle Supply and not Hagon UK.        http://www.britcycle.com/

So, I have most all of my parts and a few days to begin the work. The garage is unheated but it will be a bit warmer this week with highs in the 40’s and no more single digit lows.

[70CB750]

Following 

[Kevin D]

I found this video of the unique Norton Transformer amongst the customer bike photos posted at British Cycle Supply.

http://www.britcycle.com/Bikes/customer/JoeW_Nor_Transformer.htm

[Kevin D]

My first task was completed yesterday. I loaded the 20 kg springs onto the Hagon shocks. There are new upper bushings at the upper shock mounts. I still need to disconnect the shocks, exercise and lube the HondaMan swing arm bushings.

The ratchet strap spring compressor did the job.

[Kevin D]

I pulled the rear wheel off yesterday and replaced the sprocket and brake shoes. The old sprocket is original with 91000 miles and is showing wear. Not too badly but, it’s time. New front sprocket is on back order for now. Both sprockets are aftermarket. I hope that works out OK and it takes another 50 years to wear them out haha. The front has been replaced twice and flipped twice. The rear sprocket is stepped can’t be flipped because of the offset. I’m staying with 18/48 ratio. If I did more in town riding I might go for 17/48 but I like my 48mpg and don’t want to mess with that. The Diamond chain is in good shape.

I also replaced the brake shoes. I was running out of adjustment and it seemed like a good time since I was in there. It looks like about .040” worn from the old shoes. These are also aftermarket and one of the shoes gave me trouble at reassembly: it wouldn’t fit over the pin. 10 minutes with a round file corrected that and I hope and expect it won’t be any further problem. A stuck brake shoe would not make for a fun afternoon of riding.

[Kevin D]

I have been fitting the rack and signals. It’s not quite a done deal but I have all the hardware on hand and the turn signals are fitted to the rack. As the rack is for a K2, I needed to get the long bolts and the make the necessary spacers for the rear mounting. The turn signal location is about 6” wider 3” higher 6” back from stock. I hope that works out OK.

Prokop, I need to find your link to the waterproof bags. Are you happy with them?

The new TL lens came with a dried up old DOT sticker attached. I soaked it WD40 for an hour, heated it, and still managed to scratch the new lens. It’s a good thing I’m not a heart surgeon.

[Kevin D]

Today’s challenge. Off with the BT45. On with the Conti.

[Stev-o]

Today’s challenge. Off with the BT45. On with the Conti.

Good luck!  I think you will run the Conti's, I run them on my Kawasakis...

[70CB750]

Prokop, I need to find your link to the waterproof bags. Are you happy with them?

Here you go:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B089ZZRPXL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Great bags, you can haul a lot in them.  Roll top keeps them dry too.

[Kevin D]

Halfway done... the easy half. A long time ago I did this job with the 8” irons on a regular basis. Now I’m struggling with the 16” tools.
 
I found this sticker on the tire: 3 years flat tire towing, 150 miles. I hope I never have to use it.

[Kevin D]

Prokop, thanks for the link. I saw a larger top bag as well that might make a nice backrest. It looks as if it would leave the rack empty for a top box.

Stev-o what pressures do you run? How many miles do you get out of them?

[PeWe]

Too easy to pinch a tube when mounting the tire by yourself.

Really important to have tire irons without sharp corners and have a little bit air in tube when wrestling on the half last part of tire. 
Tire must be richly lubed with tire lube where in contact with rim. Both sides of tire.

It glide nicely on without a hard fight when irons can pinch the tube.

I learned the hard way. I pinched some tubes the last years. Luckely not stranded away from my garage.
One flat happened 1 1/2 year after.
I saw the bite marks after the tire iron I later shaped rounder on a bench grinder.
I'll grind it smoother where it can hit rim. Surface has a molded not perfecly smooth surface.

Rim protector is not always that cooperative.
Always have extra of new tubes.

[newday777]

Prokop, I need to find your link to the waterproof bags. Are you happy with them?

Here you go:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B089ZZRPXL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Great bags, you can haul a lot in them.  Roll top keeps them dry too.

These bags are 50L compared to the 35L above.
I'll probably go with these

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B077TQ8R81/ref=sspa_mw_detail_0?ie=UTF8&psc=1&pd_rd_i=B077TQ8R81p13NParams

[Kevin D]

Too easy to pinch a tube when mounting the tire by yourself.

Really important to have tire irons without sharp corners and have a little bit air in tube when wrestling on the half last part of tire. 
Tire must be richly lubed with tire lube where in contact with rim. Both sides of tire.

It glide nicely on without a hard fight when irons can pinch the tube.

I learned the hard way. I pinched some tubes the last years. Luckely not stranded away from my garage.
One flat happened 1 1/2 year after.
I saw the bite marks after the tire iron I later shaped rounder on a bench grinder.
I'll grind it smoother where it can hit rim. Surface has a molded not perfecly smooth surface.

Rim protector is not always that cooperative.
Always have extra of new tubes.

Yes PeWe,I have pinched the tube occasionally, more so when I was a beginner, only once in recent times. The tools I have are all good/smooth/round. As a bead lube I have used talcum powder, but mostly dish soap works well. My Honda was parked for 15 years and it was probably 20 years between tire changes for me and the CB and I believe that tire construction is much changed in that time and for the better but more difficult to change, say 1980 until 2000. In my working days 1970+/- the 8” spoons were adequate but not today.
My rims are original, when I look at a restored bike with shiny rims I’m envious. The rim protectors belong to my son, for his alloy rims. I use a new tube every time I get a new tire and save the old tube for an emergency spare. In this case the old rear tube is 2 years.
Gotta make sure I locate the directional arrow and put the sidewall dot by the valve stem. I sure don’t want to do this twice. 

[Kevin D]

So this tire was made the fourth week of 2020, it’s a year old.
The balance dot and the directional arrow are right next to each other.
And Continental Moto tires are made in Korea, that’s OK with me as long as I’m not buying missiles and submarines for North Korea. I thought they were a German company.

[newday777]

And Continental Moto tires are made in Korea, that’s OK with me as long as I’m not buying missiles and submarines for North Korea. I thought they were a German company.

Back in the 70s yes they were made in Germany

[PeWe]

Interesting, I had to check my German tire Metzeler, new since November.
Made in Indonesia
I suppose the previous tire was made there too. It worked fine.
The DID rim is made in Indonesia too so they fit!

[Stev-o]

Stev-o what pressures do you run? How many miles do you get out of them?

I like higher pressures, the roads are smooth around here so it isnt a harsh ride, may be different for you [MI = bad roads?!]
You should expect 4K miles on the rear and 5+ on the front. Contis hare a relatively soft compound so not the longest lasting tire but I prefer a soft tire for performance.

[Kevin D]

Stev-o what pressures do you run? How many miles do you get out of them?

I like higher pressures, the roads are smooth around here so it isnt a harsh ride, may be different for you [MI = bad roads?!]
You should expect 4K miles on the rear and 5+ on the front. Contis hare a relatively soft compound so not the longest lasting tire but I prefer a soft tire for performance.

Good to know. I’m usually on the asphalt country roads, not the highway.

[Kevin D]

Resuming work after a warm weather vacation....
I have missed my completion date of 4/15 but the Michigan weather has turned back from 70-80f to 40-50f so I have only missed a bit of riding. Lots of post-vacation chores competing now with CB wrench time.

I have taken the front wheel off and fitted the new Conti, but the date code for the front tire says 0819 so my zero mile tire is already 2 years old. The rear date code is 0420, only 1 year old. That’s about typical for my online purchases from AMT and I generally wear the tread off before the sidewall cracks show up.
 I’m 67 with a bum knee and kneeling on the tire while using the spoons was painful, but I got it done anyway. Powdered the tube and dish soap on the bead made it easier.
 The new front sprocket showed up while I was away. This new sprocket is the third front sprocket that has been on the bike and the new rear sprocket is the second. I kept the 18/48 ratio as I like my 48 mpg and the bike is plenty fast enough for me. I expect these sprockets will see me to the finish line.
 I have had a small stain on the disc so I peeked in to the brake piston and found it wet. The last time around I replaced the leaking/rusted original piston with a phenolic replacement piston and new seal. It was good for a lot of miles and several years, but it’s clearly leaking now. I had hoped that the Master cylinder and brake piston would be good forevermore but it hasn’t worked out that way. I have a new DSS piston and seal on hand for replacement. I have to find my small rotary brass brush for the seal groove.

[Kevin D]

Here is the leaky phenolic piston. It’s a few thou less than the new piston and below the service limit of 1.500”. The seal is loose on the piston: no drag at all. But hey, for 4 years and thousands of miles it stopped me every time it was asked and there is no rust at all. The seepage was so small that I never noted a change at the master cyl level.

The new piston and seal are in, new fluid in and bled. I have new pads on hand, the old ones are soaked. They’re hardly worn but I’m reluctant to use them. Maybe I can touch them with the pad sander, square them up and put them in deep storage.

[Kevin D]

This speedo cable retaining screw almost torpedoed the front wheel removal. It was rough when I first tried it and I made it worse. Then I went for the hand impact and there is enough left there that the hand impact got it out. Both of these screws are hardware store screws: it’s supposed to be an oval head, not flat head. I hope to remember to include one 5 x 15 mm oval head screw 93700-05015-0A in my next genuine Honda part order.

[Stev-o]

Agree with not using the fluid soaked pads. For the cost of replacements, not worth using them

[Kevin D]

On to the front forks today. Changed the fluid. Added fresh 220cc trans fluid. The springs measured up at 481mm, 3mm shorter than new so I added 1/2” worth of shims to give about 3/8” preload.

The brake lever is rock solid. I wrapped the lever to the handlebar with a bungee cord overnight, after the caliper rebuild. IIRC that’s a TwoTired tip.

Snow last night and on the ground this morning: the early spring has disappeared.

[Kevin D]

The off-season work is done, it’s time to ride.
 I finished with the oil change and had a 40 mile test ride this week. So the completed work is tires, brakes, suspension, oil change.
 The rear tire Conti 120-90x18 is a smidge wider than a BT45 of the same size, reducing clearance to the brake stay arm. There is enough clearance, but I would be more comfortable with it if the clearance was closer to 1/8”.
 The brakes are good: new shoes, new pads, new caliper piston and seal, new fluid. No leaks, lotsa stop. I’m disappointed in the aftermarket phenolic piston.
 The suspension is a work in progress and time will tell if it is good. It’s totally subjective and I’m certainly not qualified to comment beyond “too soft”, “too stiff”. A nasty cornering episode led me to find that the original rear shocks were shot: weak springs zero damping. The replacement Hagons corrected that but with too much spring. So the 20kg rear springs now mounted are the second step of improvement. I added 1/2” preload to the front springs along with new fluid. Maybe new Progressive springs $100, but I think that would be throwing good money after bad.
 
For the future:
- There is a tight spot in the chain and a new Diamond conventional chain with clip master link is on the way $92.
      The old Diamond chain was good for 7 years, about 18000miles.
- The starter clutch reminded me that it wants attention and I will get to that on a rainy day.
       There is also a nuisance leak, presumably from the alternator wire grommet. It’s not a big deal, it just
       contributes to the chain lube mess on the left pipe.
- There is a smaller nuisance leak recurring at the head. It’s been 14 years, 30000 miles since I was last in the
        engine.
        I don’t want to pull the engine, I don’t want to cut the frame. It’s just seeping a bit and I can tolerate that.
        I believe it’s the pucks. Wishing I had a visual... I have seen smart phone cameras that could go into the fins.
- The rack won’t go on until I’m certain I’m traveling, but it will be an easy installation as I have all the hardware on hand, and it’s been test fitted. I don’t yet have the travel bags either, but Father’s Day and Birthday are on the horizon.

[Kevin D]

The new chain showed up, was installed, and a successful shakedown ride was made. For some reason, Diamond could not provide a 100L chain in a timely manner, so I accepted and fitted a 102L chain. The 100L chain runs with the axle all the way forward in the swing arm slot, the 102L runs about an inch back, maybe halfway through the index marks. I might have to cut the extra links out later on, but I think there is enough adjustment provided.
In the meantime, I have added an inch to the wheelbase.

$92 Diamond chain
$213 ContiGo tires/tubes
$125 rear springs ($47 shipping ouch)
$280 sprockets, brakes, brake piston, misc

It should be good for a while.