Author Topic: Early Sandcast Found......  (Read 89754 times)

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Offline 34barab

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Re: Early Sandcast Found......
« Reply #175 on: March 12, 2021, 12:21:42 pm »
Frank

“ There is a lot of people paying good money , to get their brand new paint to try to look like this.. to get a fake patina vehicle.”

How long has this been a business?  Hondas too?
Current Projects: 1973 CB750K3; 1972 CB350K4; 1980 CX500D;1969 CB750.  Roadworthy: 1971 CB750K1

Offline 754

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Re: Early Sandcast Found......
« Reply #176 on: March 12, 2021, 12:30:33 pm »
At least 15 years.. probably  longer.
 Not so common on Japanese  bike yet.. except when it comes to bobbers..

 But as indication show  this is the direction we are headed..
 Check this one below,  big auction house expects it to bring asmuch as restored price..
 One thing they use on them for cleaning is 1 tbsp kerosene to a gallon of water for wiping it down.
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline 34barab

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Re: Early Sandcast Found......
« Reply #177 on: March 12, 2021, 12:53:20 pm »
At least 15 years.. probably  longer.
 Not so common on Japanese  bike yet.. except when it comes to bobbers..

 But as indication show  this is the direction we are headed..
 Check this one below,  big auction house expects it to bring asmuch as restored price..
 One thing they use on them for cleaning is 1 tbsp kerosene to a gallon of water for wiping it down.

That ha all been faked?
Current Projects: 1973 CB750K3; 1972 CB350K4; 1980 CX500D;1969 CB750.  Roadworthy: 1971 CB750K1

Offline 754

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Re: Early Sandcast Found......
« Reply #178 on: March 12, 2021, 01:22:33 pm »
That was barn fresh, like my sandcast when I found it.. mine was dirtier.
Cleaned up pretty nice though..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Early Sandcast Found......
« Reply #179 on: March 12, 2021, 04:23:15 pm »
The whole "Patina" thing is a personal choice, a little bit of surface rust here and there, some paint fade, that's fine. When there's more rust than paint though, any reasonable person would want to make it look nicer. I hate over-restored show bikes that are trailered from bike show to bike show by boring old farts who only ride their bikes from their trailer to the show and back to impress like minded boring old farts who aren't motorcyclists, they're investors.

Having said all of the above, Sandcasts are in big demand, and worth big money. There are folks with deep pockets who are more interested in owning a shiny over-restored status symbol than a bike with some history. I have to laugh when I see how these things have gone up in value, I bought so many CB750's for less than a dollar per cc, (I paid $300 for my K1 in 1980 and the seller threw in a K0 as a spare) and nowadays they've been put on a pedestal by "collectors" (investors) and the prices seem to go up every time I see one for sale.

If it was me I'd get the frame blasted and paint it with rattle can paint (2K and powdercoat wasn't around when out bikes were built, and doesn't look anything like the OEM cheap arse paint that Honda used, I know, I bought my first CB750 new) clean up the chrome if possible, or have it re-chromed is necessary, and sympathetically restore the paint and plastics. It'll still look like a patina bike, but will be still very desirable. But if you're building it with a mind to selling it John, then go the whole hog and do the Vic World thing, as much as I don't like show bikes, there are plenty of people out there who want a brand new looking sandcast. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline seanbarney41

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Re: Early Sandcast Found......
« Reply #180 on: March 12, 2021, 04:47:13 pm »
My opinion on restorations, not that anybody else cares what it is, just another idea to share...of course everyone can appreciate the beauty of a nice original survivor.  Such things should not be messed with.  The question is when the bike or even certain parts didn't really actually "survive".  In order for the bike or part to be useful again it's gonna need to be restored.  Then it is not the end of the story, just a new beginning of another chapter.  But a bike that does not get used as it was intended?  That's not an interesting story.  And interesting stories are always better than boring ones.  So go ahead and restore it, but then USE the damn thing!  Ride it.  Dirt roads, unexpected rain, crashes, vandalism, races, burn outs, peg scraping...if you did the restoration properly these things will not destroy the bike, they just add to it's story and beauty.
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline 754

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Re: Early Sandcast Found......
« Reply #181 on: March 12, 2021, 05:39:02 pm »
 Start counting how many sandcasts you have seen turn up in the last few years, that need only a few parts,  and then could be ridden........ not very many..
 Now we all don't have to look very far ... to find a 1/2 done or partly restored example. These come up  every week. Want a really shiny one.. take your pick, plenty to choose from... Not very many have  the majority  of their parts in runnable condition..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Don R

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Re: Early Sandcast Found......
« Reply #182 on: March 12, 2021, 07:11:15 pm »
  I agonized for two weeks whether to even wash the dirt off of mine. I had recently retired to take a job that vanished and was unsure if I could afford to keep it. One day I cleaned a turn signal and realized it was not pitted but coated in WD40 and bike shop dirt. The paint was covered with dirt over blue coral wax, I knew then no one else could have it as long as I can still enjoy it. 
 There is still blue wax in a discreet place that I left in honor of the guy that stored it away. His lighter is still on the handlebar bracket, I may hook it back up to charge a phone. Or not.
No matter how many times you paint over a shadow, it's still there.
 CEO at the no kill motorcycle shop.
 You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: Early Sandcast Found......
« Reply #183 on: March 13, 2021, 06:25:13 am »
Thanks for all the really great feedback. Really appreciate the detail from all of you. I suspect the mechanical “underside” of this project (leaking head gasket, brakes, forks, shocks, rims and tires), will get the most attention. I already have a “show bike”, so this one will turn out more a “rider”. Stay tuned,

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Early Sandcast Found......
« Reply #184 on: March 13, 2021, 09:25:02 pm »
Good idea John, show bikes are for folks who can't see past their wallets, and aren't motorcyclists. Get it running right, and ride the wheels off it. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline y2kc0wb0y

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Re: Early Sandcast Found......
« Reply #185 on: March 14, 2021, 03:58:34 am »
Historic thread. Thanks for sharing the journey with us.
CB750K3 890cc| 2004 VFR800A| 76 CB550F| 77 CB750F| 73 CB350G| 79 XLH| 2007 BMW R1200GS| CB750K2

Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: Early Sandcast Found......
« Reply #186 on: March 14, 2021, 06:50:50 am »
Historic thread. Thanks for sharing the journey with us.

This one may take bit longer. I want to complete the Rickman CR. and get a few details on  my new to me “Chopper” cleaned up in 2021. Determined to “ride more”. My Benelli SEI (Honda 550 with two more cylinders) never got used in 2020. Just insured it again!

Offline bwaller

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Re: Early Sandcast Found......
« Reply #187 on: March 14, 2021, 09:52:42 am »
Well the riding season is approaching and projects are less the focus. Yup you're human!  ;D

Offline 754

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Re: Early Sandcast Found......
« Reply #188 on: March 14, 2021, 10:15:33 am »
 I just think this pair of bikes , might be your favorite buy ...ever...

 When I still had my sandcast,  people would ask what I was going to do with it.  And restoring it at the time would have cost a bit of money.. but what kept going through my mind was... then what do I do with it...  and having it sit around and worry about people touching it.. or getting a scratch on it... and riding it very little.....just did not seem as much fun as just riding it..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Don R

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Re: Early Sandcast Found......
« Reply #189 on: March 14, 2021, 11:05:08 am »
 Sometimes a bike will tell you what it wants to be, my K2 with a k1 motor, no frame numbers and a lot of non stock parts wants to be a day 2 hot bike. However, the former heavily parts swapped K0 is trending back towards stock.
No matter how many times you paint over a shadow, it's still there.
 CEO at the no kill motorcycle shop.
 You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: Early Sandcast Found......
« Reply #190 on: March 14, 2021, 12:38:59 pm »
Don.... so right! Today I loosened off the two, lowest through bolts on the engine mounts. To my surprise, both slide in and out, no corrosion!! 

Next I went around and “knocked” loose all the side cover screws. My luck ran out. Two will need the heads drilled off. Oh well, not the first time.

Started carving off the two stumps of tubing (a previous owner brazed two luggage rack braces to the rear foot bracket triangles). One will come away cleanly, but there is a “blow hole” under the other one. Good news: that’s the only frame damage. No scrapes, dings or missing side stand!

Offline 754

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Re: Early Sandcast Found......
« Reply #191 on: March 14, 2021, 01:01:56 pm »
Side stand damage an frame rot around there, are a big problem these frames sometimes have..
 If you do weld that little hole.. or solder...  I bet touch up with a Q tip and paint would  take care of it..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: Early Sandcast Found......
« Reply #192 on: March 14, 2021, 06:01:50 pm »
Side stand damage an frame rot around there, are a big problem these frames sometimes have..
 If you do weld that little hole.. or solder...  I bet touch up with a Q tip and paint would  take care of it..

Good idea! I’ll flux and lead it tomorrow. Nice and soft, easy to smooth. I put a bright light in and it wasn’t leaking. Tube is spotless, inside. Side stand bracket is perfect. Some of the welds (original) on the lower engine mounts are truly horrible. I’ve done better with my stick welder on my bush hog!

Offline 754

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Re: Early Sandcast Found......
« Reply #193 on: March 14, 2021, 07:43:36 pm »
 It's true.., most welders .. weld too nice to do stock looking welds on these years of frames. .
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Don R

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Re: Early Sandcast Found......
« Reply #194 on: March 14, 2021, 08:37:53 pm »
I would venture a guess Honda was welding with war surplus equipment. And coat hangers.
No matter how many times you paint over a shadow, it's still there.
 CEO at the no kill motorcycle shop.
 You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: Early Sandcast Found......
« Reply #195 on: March 15, 2021, 07:53:27 am »
It's true.., most welders .. weld too nice to do stock looking welds on these years of frames. .

You guys are probably both correct! Carefully studying the pretty bare frame, the guy on the left side of the “line” was more skilled than the other side! Clearly noticeable.....

Offline Don R

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Re: Early Sandcast Found......
« Reply #196 on: March 15, 2021, 09:23:36 am »
 Imagine the frenzy when Honda realized the Sandcasts were selling like hotcakes and they could instantly sell every one that they could make. The new factory not yet finished and money tight, I've heard stories of employees going out on nut and bolt runs when supplies ran out, multiple suppliers of the same part just to get enough, Mr. Honda patrolling the assembly line and jumping in where ever there was a bottle neck. Exciting but maybe not a good time to be on the assembly line. I'd bet 450 production was slowed when the first 750 line was parallel to it stealing employees and parts.
 I can easily imagine a veteran frame welder on one side of your bike's frame and a new hire on the opposite side.
No matter how many times you paint over a shadow, it's still there.
 CEO at the no kill motorcycle shop.
 You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: Early Sandcast Found......
« Reply #197 on: March 15, 2021, 12:22:15 pm »
I can just see it. What a success story! You’ve probably noticed my engine number is hundreds less than the frame (58X vs. 12XX). Verified story is that every so often an engine was run for a few hours then torn down for “Quality Inspection”, then carefully rebuilt. Because they were the slowdown, it then went back in the line. Kind of cool to think mine got the extra attention!

Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: Early Sandcast Found......
« Reply #198 on: March 15, 2021, 12:28:08 pm »
Wondering what float height you went with?

Further to my response on setting float heights, finally remembered to take a photo! This gauge is specifically marketed for 1971-76. The gap to the prong from the “saddle legs” is 26mm. I rest the carbs at a 45 degree angle so the float tab is resting lightly on the valve pin. The legs of the saddle just touch the float bowl base (where the gasket goes) and the prong just clears the float. Flip it around and make sure both floats are at the same level......

Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: Early Sandcast Found......
« Reply #199 on: March 15, 2021, 12:33:14 pm »
Used the 10:1 phosphoric acid again, yesterday. Tossed in the first exhaust spigot I removed from the head, to see what happened. Amazing results.