Topic: Early Sandcast Found......

[HondaMan]

I've long wanted to do 'nice' bolts to my steed, using the 8mm hex-head-with-integral-washer as seen on the CB650 bikes. I once rebuilt and engine for someone (I think he lives in Canada) and he had managed to find a complete set of them for his engine, which he sent to me for the reassembly. It looked fantastic! He paid over $70 CAD for them all (this was like 10 years ago?) but the vendor was gone when I tried to contact him later on.

Someday...?

Were the bolts zinc or chrome?
I have thought of using the chrome dome head bolts from a GL1100 that I tore down and scrapped. They look great. I'll take some pictures of them when I get down in the shop in a bit.

Sorry I missed this:
the bolts are plated like the normal engine screws, not chrome, but the rounded hex heads are polished and look like chrome. They have a flange under the 6mm 'nut' head, so they didn't fit down into the 2 deep holes on the tranny cover of the 750 (at least, not on a K1 that I had handy at the time). The flange seems to be the same OD size as the ISO metric heads on modern metric screws (like from Ace Hardware). I'm going to attempt to find one of these bolt/screws and see if this is the case, or not, for sure. I should have measured them back then.

Or, if you have a CB650 1979/80 handy, they used these fancy bolt/screws on those engine cases, too.

[newday777]

I've long wanted to do 'nice' bolts to my steed, using the 8mm hex-head-with-integral-washer as seen on the CB650 bikes. I once rebuilt and engine for someone (I think he lives in Canada) and he had managed to find a complete set of them for his engine, which he sent to me for the reassembly. It looked fantastic! He paid over $70 CAD for them all (this was like 10 years ago?) but the vendor was gone when I tried to contact him later on.

Someday...?

Were the bolts zinc or chrome?
I have thought of using the chrome dome head bolts from a GL1100 that I tore down and scrapped. They look great. I'll take some pictures of them when I get down in the shop in a bit.

Sorry I missed this:
the bolts are plated like the normal engine screws, not chrome, but the rounded hex heads are polished and look like chrome. They have a flange under the 6mm 'nut' head, so they didn't fit down into the 2 deep holes on the tranny cover of the 750 (at least, not on a K1 that I had handy at the time). The flange seems to be the same OD size as the ISO metric heads on modern metric screws (like from Ace Hardware). I'm going to attempt to find one of these bolt/screws and see if this is the case, or not, for sure. I should have measured them back then.

Or, if you have a CB650 1979/80 handy, they used these fancy bolt/screws on those engine cases, too.

Like this? I just looked up the numbers on the 650 cylinder head bolts and this shows them on an eBay listing.

[HondaMan]

I've long wanted to do 'nice' bolts to my steed, using the 8mm hex-head-with-integral-washer as seen on the CB650 bikes. I once rebuilt and engine for someone (I think he lives in Canada) and he had managed to find a complete set of them for his engine, which he sent to me for the reassembly. It looked fantastic! He paid over $70 CAD for them all (this was like 10 years ago?) but the vendor was gone when I tried to contact him later on.

Someday...?

Were the bolts zinc or chrome?
I have thought of using the chrome dome head bolts from a GL1100 that I tore down and scrapped. They look great. I'll take some pictures of them when I get down in the shop in a bit.

Sorry I missed this:
the bolts are plated like the normal engine screws, not chrome, but the rounded hex heads are polished and look like chrome. They have a flange under the 6mm 'nut' head, so they didn't fit down into the 2 deep holes on the tranny cover of the 750 (at least, not on a K1 that I had handy at the time). The flange seems to be the same OD size as the ISO metric heads on modern metric screws (like from Ace Hardware). I'm going to attempt to find one of these bolt/screws and see if this is the case, or not, for sure. I should have measured them back then.

Or, if you have a CB650 1979/80 handy, they used these fancy bolt/screws on those engine cases, too.

Like this? I just looked up the numbers on the 650 cylinder head bolts and this shows them on an eBay listing.

Those look pretty close: the ones I got from Honda (only in 6x35 size so far) have rounded tops on the bolts to make them look pretty. I'm thinking that having these on the clutch cover is a good idea, as those screws have been replaced more than once from buggering them. I currently have ISO/DIN size headed screws there now, gives the engine a caricatured look, sorta.

[BenelliSEI]

Nice engine hoist!

1965 MF135. Perkins 3 cylinder diesel. Best investment I ever made.

[newday777]

I've long wanted to do 'nice' bolts to my steed, using the 8mm hex-head-with-integral-washer as seen on the CB650 bikes. I once rebuilt and engine for someone (I think he lives in Canada) and he had managed to find a complete set of them for his engine, which he sent to me for the reassembly. It looked fantastic! He paid over $70 CAD for them all (this was like 10 years ago?) but the vendor was gone when I tried to contact him later on.

Someday...?

Were the bolts zinc or chrome?
I have thought of using the chrome dome head bolts from a GL1100 that I tore down and scrapped. They look great. I'll take some pictures of them when I get down in the shop in a bit.

Sorry I missed this:
the bolts are plated like the normal engine screws, not chrome, but the rounded hex heads are polished and look like chrome. They have a flange under the 6mm 'nut' head, so they didn't fit down into the 2 deep holes on the tranny cover of the 750 (at least, not on a K1 that I had handy at the time). The flange seems to be the same OD size as the ISO metric heads on modern metric screws (like from Ace Hardware). I'm going to attempt to find one of these bolt/screws and see if this is the case, or not, for sure. I should have measured them back then.

Or, if you have a CB650 1979/80 handy, they used these fancy bolt/screws on those engine cases, too.

Like this? I just looked up the numbers on the 650 cylinder head bolts and this shows them on an eBay listing.

Those look pretty close: the ones I got from Honda (only in 6x35 size so far) have rounded tops on the bolts to make them look pretty. I'm thinking that having these on the clutch cover is a good idea, as those screws have been replaced more than once from buggering them. I currently have ISO/DIN size headed screws there now, gives the engine a caricatured look, sorta.

[BenelliSEI]

Painted the engine today and then replaced all the case hardware with the freshly plated bolts that LASH sent. Looking good! Photos next time.

[denward17]

John, what does wrinkle tank mean?

Also, Does the sandcast cases look/feel different?

[BenelliSEI]

Den…. The cases, barrel and head are definitely much rougher than later engines. It also has a few areas that are really lumpy and obviously finished off with a hand held grinder. I’ll try for some photos, next time.

The early tanks are in fact extremely “wrinkled” on the underside. Whatever stamping process was in use probably had multiple steps and each one left its mark. You can clearly see the wrinkles when peering through the fuel cap. Note the additional four round dimples for the individual throttle cables that come out the top of each carb. The topside is different too. It’s bigger than later tanks (mine is the early “17 litre” one) and although it looks smooth, quite lumpy when you run your hand over it.

[HondaMan]

I've long wanted to do 'nice' bolts to my steed, using the 8mm hex-head-with-integral-washer as seen on the CB650 bikes. I once rebuilt and engine for someone (I think he lives in Canada) and he had managed to find a complete set of them for his engine, which he sent to me for the reassembly. It looked fantastic! He paid over $70 CAD for them all (this was like 10 years ago?) but the vendor was gone when I tried to contact him later on.

Someday...?

Were the bolts zinc or chrome?
I have thought of using the chrome dome head bolts from a GL1100 that I tore down and scrapped. They look great. I'll take some pictures of them when I get down in the shop in a bit.

Sorry I missed this:
the bolts are plated like the normal engine screws, not chrome, but the rounded hex heads are polished and look like chrome. They have a flange under the 6mm 'nut' head, so they didn't fit down into the 2 deep holes on the tranny cover of the 750 (at least, not on a K1 that I had handy at the time). The flange seems to be the same OD size as the ISO metric heads on modern metric screws (like from Ace Hardware). I'm going to attempt to find one of these bolt/screws and see if this is the case, or not, for sure. I should have measured them back then.

Or, if you have a CB650 1979/80 handy, they used these fancy bolt/screws on those engine cases, too.

Like this? I just looked up the numbers on the 650 cylinder head bolts and this shows them on an eBay listing.

Those look pretty close: the ones I got from Honda (only in 6x35 size so far) have rounded tops on the bolts to make them look pretty. I'm thinking that having these on the clutch cover is a good idea, as those screws have been replaced more than once from buggering them. I currently have ISO/DIN size headed screws there now, gives the engine a caricatured look, sorta.

Yep, that's what they look like! Pretty on the bike, too.

[grcamna2]

I've long wanted to do 'nice' bolts to my steed, using the 8mm hex-head-with-integral-washer as seen on the CB650 bikes. I once rebuilt and engine for someone (I think he lives in Canada) and he had managed to find a complete set of them for his engine, which he sent to me for the reassembly. It looked fantastic! He paid over $70 CAD for them all (this was like 10 years ago?) but the vendor was gone when I tried to contact him later on.

Someday...?

Were the bolts zinc or chrome?
I have thought of using the chrome dome head bolts from a GL1100 that I tore down and scrapped. They look great. I'll take some pictures of them when I get down in the shop in a bit.

Sorry I missed this:
the bolts are plated like the normal engine screws, not chrome, but the rounded hex heads are polished and look like chrome. They have a flange under the 6mm 'nut' head, so they didn't fit down into the 2 deep holes on the tranny cover of the 750 (at least, not on a K1 that I had handy at the time). The flange seems to be the same OD size as the ISO metric heads on modern metric screws (like from Ace Hardware). I'm going to attempt to find one of these bolt/screws and see if this is the case, or not, for sure. I should have measured them back then.

Or, if you have a CB650 1979/80 handy, they used these fancy bolt/screws on those engine cases, too.

Like this? I just looked up the numbers on the 650 cylinder head bolts and this shows them on an eBay listing.

Those look pretty close: the ones I got from Honda (only in 6x35 size so far) have rounded tops on the bolts to make them look pretty. I'm thinking that having these on the clutch cover is a good idea, as those screws have been replaced more than once from buggering them. I currently have ISO/DIN size headed screws there now, gives the engine a caricatured look, sorta.

Those are 8mm hex head;real handy to remove and install.
These are what they use on the 80'+ XR & XL dirt bike engines.

[BenelliSEI]

Nice people! I used to buy all my Honda parts from Cameron Cycle in Peterborough, Ont. They WERE a Honda motorcycle dealer for +50 years. Honda Canada foolishly opened large box store dealers and slowly shut down the small, local places. I still go there for aftermarket stuff and to search their old inventory. A very smart lady (Patti Lynn) runs the parts dept.
      In my stuff I have three, original finned exhaust clamps for the Sandcast. Still in the old bags. When I called Patti about #4, no luck. She called me this morning explaining that a few of the older dealers still share an ancient inventory system. When checking, she discovered a dealer in SW Ontario have ONE on the shelf. I called Davidson’s and Toby was kind enough to pull it out of “a very old bag”. Bingo! He’s posting it to me today. Brilliant!

[grcamna2]

Nice people! I used to buy all my Honda parts from Cameron Cycle in Peterborough, Ont. They WERE a Honda motorcycle dealer for +50 years. Honda Canada foolishly opened large box store dealers and slowly shut down the small, local places. I still go there for aftermarket stuff and to search their old inventory. A very smart lady (Patti Lynn) runs the parts dept.
      In my stuff I have three, original finned exhaust clamps for the Sandcast. Still in the old bags. When I called Patti about #4, no luck. She called me this morning explaining that a few of the older dealers still share an ancient inventory system. When checking, she discovered a dealer in SW Ontario have ONE on the shelf. I called Davidson’s and Toby was kind enough to pull it out of “a very old bag”. Bingo! He’s posting it to me today. Brilliant!

Yeah Man !  OEM Honda NOS !!!
I love surprise 'finds' like that.

[BenelliSEI]

Nice people! I used to buy all my Honda parts from Cameron Cycle in Peterborough, Ont. They WERE a Honda motorcycle dealer for +50 years. Honda Canada foolishly opened large box store dealers and slowly shut down the small, local places. I still go there for aftermarket stuff and to search their old inventory. A very smart lady (Patti Lynn) runs the parts dept.
      In my stuff I have three, original finned exhaust clamps for the Sandcast. Still in the old bags. When I called Patti about #4, no luck. She called me this morning explaining that a few of the older dealers still share an ancient inventory system. When checking, she discovered a dealer in SW Ontario have ONE on the shelf. I called Davidson’s and Toby was kind enough to pull it out of “a very old bag”. Bingo! He’s posting it to me today. Brilliant!

Yeah Man !  OEM Honda NOS !!!
I love surprise 'finds' like that.

Yup! Especially Patti and Toby that took the time to make it happen.

[newday777]

Cool beans. I love it. Always great to get nos parts

[BenelliSEI]

Dennis………here’s the “roughest” spot on the engine. Certainly not as tidy as the later castings!

[BenelliSEI]

Made some progress today. Despite the deadline I am determined to make this one my best effort. Using all the original bits (that had been neglected for many years) has its challenges. Note the early “nine hole clutch cover”. Later ones added a screw in the bottom right corner. I added a bit of gasket sealer there……

I was pretty frugal with paint, so as not to disguise the rough finish on this very early motor. Turned out OK. Mysteriously the original kick start lever doesn’t have any of the usual gouges and damaged chrome.

[denward17]

Looks good John, I can see the roughness in the texture.

[BenelliSEI]

Looks good John, I can see the roughness in the texture.

Dennis…. I hope you saw the info on the tank you asked about?

[denward17]

Looks good John, I can see the roughness in the texture.

Dennis…. I hope you saw the info on the tank you asked about?

I did, Thanks for the explanation.

[BenelliSEI]

Tomorrow I’ll put the alternator back together and work on closing up the top end. Every time I look at the engine #XXXX582 it makes me smile.

It appears the cam chain tensioner and top breather cover were painted too. More paint.

[HondaMan]

Tomorrow I’ll put the alternator back together and work on closing up the top end. Every time I look at the engine #XXXX582 it makes me smile.

It appears the cam chain tensioner and top breather cover were painted too. More paint.

Yep, they are!
I got kind of attached to that last sandcast engine I rescued, too. At first I didn't think it was going to make it, but after finding that final-drive bearing at CMSNL (it has a groove in it with a retainer ring, unlike all the later ones) it finally had a chance. You get too see a lot of Japanese handwork on those engines, which only faded away slowly until the K4 series.

Were the rods marked in crypto, or did they have the actual weight engraved on them?

[BenelliSEI]

Mark….. This engine ran so well I never took the bottom end apart. Cam and primary chains were snug and quiet. I took the top end apart to address the broken fins and some oil leaks. Changed all the cam chain guides and roller (HONDA Parts), light hone, fresh rings, lapped the valves and back together. I certainly plan on riding it, but it likely won’t get a lot of miles.

[Medyo Bastos]

Sure is pretty!


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[BenelliSEI]

Sure is pretty!


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Thanks! The set of case screws from Yamiya are worth every it.

[BenelliSEI]

Just putting all the covers back together for this project. There was no trace of any black trim paint around the HONDA logo on the alternator cover. Some restored bikes have it, some don’t. Does anyone know/remember how they looked when new?