Author Topic: 750 sohc main bearing dilemma  (Read 1003 times)

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Offline Smiffy3012

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750 sohc main bearing dilemma
« on: February 10, 2021, 10:08:02 AM »
Good afternoon from a very cold UK. Appologies as this has been covered a million times, but I want to ask about minimum main bearing clearances and my reasoning for this is a mate crashed my CB750 K2 and shattered the engine cases back in 1990, so as a lockdown project I've started putting bike bike together including a full engine overhaul. I have however some matched K5 cases that I've owned since breaking bike in 1987 (but no crankshaft) so I'm using the original K2 crank.

So BBBBB case and original K2 crank ABCCC I've worked out that I needed brown and green bearings (See pic)

Here's the problem... I am getting very little clearance on green Plastigauge....please see pictures and give me advice. The crank rotates perfectly when torqued down but I'm just a little worried that the gap is to small.
Here's hoping you experts can help me

Offline Smiffy3012

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Re: 750 sohc main bearing dilemma
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2021, 10:17:54 AM »
Picture 2

Offline Maltboy

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Re: 750 sohc main bearing dilemma
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2021, 10:27:10 AM »
Why are you using red plastigauge with a green scale?

Offline pjlogue

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Re: 750 sohc main bearing dilemma
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2021, 10:38:36 AM »
It looks like you are at around .004"  or a little more the shop service limit is between .0008"-.0018"  Your journal looks pretty rough with a lot of pitting and galling.  You may be able to dress the journal and get new bearings to match the dressed journal.

-P.

Offline Smiffy3012

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Re: 750 sohc main bearing dilemma
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2021, 10:55:38 AM »
The red stuff is all that's available in England now . After getting fatter reading than I expected I asked the same question and ordered some more green from another supplier... Guess what same red stuff in both the green packet and the blue one I ordered for another job.. It is definitely the correct diameter but a bit confusing. I now have to right on the baf which is which so I don't mess up. Also I will dress the journals before final. Thank you for your input on this so far. Smiffy

Offline Smiffy3012

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Re: 750 sohc main bearing dilemma
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2021, 11:15:31 AM »
Would the clearence I have restrict the oil flow to much?

Offline Maltboy

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Re: 750 sohc main bearing dilemma
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2021, 01:12:06 PM »
The red stuff is all that's available in England now . After getting fatter reading than I expected I asked the same question and ordered some more green from another supplier... Guess what same red stuff in both the green packet and the blue one I ordered for another job.. It is definitely the correct diameter but a bit confusing. I now have to right on the baf which is which so I don't mess up. Also I will dress the journals before final. Thank you for your input on this so far. Smiffy

The US green size measures between 0.025 mm and 0.230 mm.  That's what you'll need for a Honda crank.  The product you have is way above that range.  I don't think you'll be able to get an accurate measurement with it.


Offline Smiffy3012

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Re: 750 sohc main bearing dilemma
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2021, 02:31:38 PM »
Thank you I've found a USA Plastigauge that is identical to your picture. Seems like we're being led up the garden path as we say over here! There is only one seller on ebay UK with Clevite Plastigauge and he's just emailed to say he's out of stock... Bugger!
Bloody British invented it and now turn out some right silly sizes...
Thanks again people from a grumpy old Brit

Offline HondaMan

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Re: 750 sohc main bearing dilemma
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2021, 07:02:33 PM »
The main bearings from honda (new) ranged 0.0008"-0.0018", and the worn-out state is 0.0032", at which point it has trouble keeping the oil pressure up.

That all said: I have assembled this engine with as little as 0.0004" main bearing clearance. That one took a little while to break in (500 miles) with lighter oil (10w40), but it ran perfectly for 2 more years before I left that area to move to Colorado.

Essentially, if you have a non-new crankshaft, there are no bearings available from honda that will be too tight. The "optimum" clearance is Honda's best guess at a good all-around engine performance, for riders who might run too-light or too-dirty oil, and run at redline too much or lug the engine at low RPM too much. That clearance range is 0.0008"-0.0012", and the engines generally settle in at about 0.0016"-0.0018" after about 10,000 miles and run their best. I run mine tighter (quite a bit tighter) because I like to have higher oil pressure (so does this engine, so use 20w50 oil in it).

If the engine spins freely when bolted together with the bearings, it will run, and usually without problems. The oil is fed at 50 PSI by about 1500 RPM (about 15-30 PSI at 950 RPM) in the K2, approaching 60 PSI by 4000 RPM.

Honda's manufacturing 'rules' were set up so that the largest bearing journal, combined with the smallest bearing shell, would not make an engine that would not run: if the largest journal were place inside the tightest mainbearing, it made the clearance 0.0004", which is the same as the piston clearance used in the famous Honda 90 and 100cc engines. Roadracers I knew always went to tighter bearings for racing, not looser ones (like dragracers seem to do...), and they never had troubles, either. So, I seriously doubt you will, either. ;)
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Offline PeWe

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Re: 750 sohc main bearing dilemma
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2021, 11:29:53 PM »
I had no problem using the UK version. I ordered several models just for sure. Red, blue, green.

I used the red one for crank. Sticks and card red. Not using wrong card.
My engine had a little bit over, 0.0020" which I found to be OK. I found other threads where experienced tuning guys see a better oil flow.

Hondas service limit is way over that anyway.
Pressure at idle cold engine 70PSI, really warm engine crusing on 5th gear 4000 rpm usually 40PSI.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,155014.msg1780022.html#msg1780022

Both my bikes had similar clearances, around 0.050mm / 0.0020".
« Last Edit: February 10, 2021, 11:31:47 PM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Smiffy3012

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Re: 750 sohc main bearing dilemma
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2021, 07:08:56 AM »
Brilliant useful replies thank you all so much. Feeling happier now and I've managed to source some USA 'Plastigauge' it's totally different to the stuff I got from UK. Once again thanks from a cold UK

Offline Nurse Julie

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Re: 750 sohc main bearing dilemma
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2021, 02:08:32 AM »
Plenty of green plastiguage available here in UK
Trust me I'm a Nurse, I promise it won't hurt....much