Topic: Bridgestone BT45s or Bridgestone Spitfire S11? Or something else?

[PeWe]

Terry might have too good front brakes?

[RAFster122s]

A person's weight can impact wear as well as the construction of the roadways and the abrasiveness of the roadway surface.

[RAFster122s]

https://www.cycleworld.com/sampling-nearly-all-pirellis-motorcycle-tires-in-two-days/

Pirelli tire review/sampling from 2019

[caluser2000]

The rear has force provided by the drive chain and the majority of loads are fitted on the backseat/pack rack/soft or hard panniers/top boxes etc.

[Terry in Australia]

The BT45 front tyres on my bikes would always wear out on the edges, possibly due to their dual compound, but it pissed me off that there was plenty of tread in the middle of the tyre but the edges were scrubbed out after as little as 5000 Km. (3000 miles) I inflate pretty much all my tyres on CB750's to 32 psi in the front and 36 in the rear, but the BT45's were the only tyres that I've had this happen to, so I'm guessing their front compounds aren't perfect. I'm coming up to 2000 miles on the K0 fitted with the Stinko 712's, and they're showing no sign of wear so far.

[PeWe]

Too little braking and much curve bending then

My K6 front tire made 10000 km last year. It has worn 0.5mm more than my K2 that has done 6000 km.
Thread depths now 3.5 vs 4 mm.
That front tire can be able to do 25000-30000 km on my bikes. Replace before 1mm thread depth is reached.

My rears are usually done at 5000 km. 6000 km with more speed limit cruising. 4.0-18 kept handling better than 120/90 on stock 2.15" rear.

But I do not ride hard in corners.

[turkey4me]

I'm trying to replace a set of bridgestone raised white letter spitfires and can only find black.   Did they really discontinue these or just out of stock?  I have been pleased with the performance.   I do get a bit of speed wobble on flat straight roads pushing 95.  I think the wobble comes from the rim size difference between rear 130/90 R16 and front 100/90 R19.   Always feels solid in a twisty corner.

[Terry in Australia]

Too little braking and much curve bending then

My K6 front tire made 10000 km last year. It has worn 0.5mm more than my K2 that has done 6000 km.
Thread depths now 3.5 vs 4 mm.
That front tire can be able to do 25000-30000 km on my bikes. Replace before 1mm thread depth is reached.

My rears are usually done at 5000 km. 6000 km with more speed limit cruising. 4.0-18 kept handling better than 120/90 on stock 2.15" rear.

But I do not ride hard in corners.

I'm surprised at how little mileage (kilometer-age?) you're getting out of your rears Per, the rear on my 14 years old Triumph Rocket III has done 14000 Km and is still (marginally) roadworthy, but considering it's massive weight, horsepower and torque, I'm really surprised they've lasted so long. I'm putting it in next week for new Avon Venoms, and if they last as well as the Metzlers, I'll be 75 by the time I need to replace them.....  

[PeWe]

Too little braking and much curve bending then

My K6 front tire made 10000 km last year. It has worn 0.5mm more than my K2 that has done 6000 km.
Thread depths now 3.5 vs 4 mm.
That front tire can be able to do 25000-30000 km on my bikes. Replace before 1mm thread depth is reached.

My rears are usually done at 5000 km. 6000 km with more speed limit cruising. 4.0-18 kept handling better than 120/90 on stock 2.15" rear.

But I do not ride hard in corners.

I'm surprised at how little mileage (kilometer-age?) you're getting out of your rears Per, the rear on my 14 years old Triumph Rocket III has done 14000 Km and is still (marginally) roadworthy, but considering it's massive weight, horsepower and torque, I'm really surprised they've lasted so long. I'm putting it in next week for new Avon Venoms, and if they last as well as the Metzlers, I'll be 75 by the time I need to replace them.....

Yes, thats buggers me too. The K2 has not been ridden very hard so often nor too hard braking.

I'm sure the rubber mix is softer today for increased grip.
My K6 has a new dual compund tire of later design. I'll see if it will last longer.
We got snow back so no riding...

[caluser2000]

On my '76 CB550F I run Sinkos front and rear. A ribbed 3,25x19 54p up front at 28psi. And a 712 110\90'19 on the rear at 30psi. Both are 2psi above what is stated in the chain guard sticker for solo riding. The front states max speed of 150kph. This is fine for my style of riding. I get two rear tires to one front in this combination, Replace the rear tire at 11,000-13,000kms. I generally get a tire in stock a couple of months before having to replace them.

I find  them a great combination for my m/c and have no issue with handling at all.

The pressure reading on the tires side wall is the MAX pressure you can run that tire at. not the recommended tire pressure. I've always ran tire pressures is at or + or _ a few psi to what is recommended by the motorcycles manufacturer.

[Terry in Australia]

Don’t pay any attention to the 50 year old tyre pressure suggestions on your bike Mark, they were specific to the tyres that were available 50 years ago, not modern tyres.

Go to the manufacturer’s website and look up their recommendations, which will be invariably higher than they were for the tyres of the day.

I get at least the same mileage as you do on my heavier bike, running higher pressures, and riding hard, although I always change my tyres as a set, regardless of whether the front tyre still looks good or not, tyres (particularly Stinko’s) are cheap, but one night in intensive care would pay for a new bike.

[RAFster122s]

Don’t pay any attention to the 50 year old tyre pressure suggestions on your bike Mark, they were specific to the tyres that were available 50 years ago, not modern tyres.

Go to the manufacturer’s website and look up their recommendations, which will be invariably higher than they were for the tyres of the day.

I get at least the same mileage as you do on my heavier bike, running higher pressures, and riding hard, although I always change my tyres as a set, regardless of whether the front tyre still looks good or not, tyres (particularly Stinko’s) are cheap, but one night in intensive care would pay for a new bike.

Had night in ICU a few years ago and bill was over 17,500 and all they did was monitoring me after being given anti-stroke med because my hemiplegic migraine had stroke like symptoms/affectations...
ICU beds suck...
Was under observation for 23 hrs so I wouldn’t incur another day’s charge...going through ER of course...
That was after they discounted it because I had no insurance...

[caluser2000]

Don’t pay any attention to the 50 year old tyre pressure suggestions on your bike Mark, they were specific to the tyres that were available 50 years ago, not modern tyres.

Go to the manufacturer’s website and look up their recommendations, which will be invariably higher than they were for the tyres of the day.

I get at least the same mileage as you do on my heavier bike, running higher pressures, and riding hard, although I always change my tyres as a set, regardless of whether the front tyre still looks good or not, tyres (particularly Stinko’s) are cheap, but one night in intensive care would pay for a new bike.

The tire pressures I use are perfectly fine. I have  been using Shinko 712s rears for a long time on various motorcycles using tubeless tires combined with tubes. So I know bymy own experience my curent setup works..When warm the tires are very good on tighter roads.

Higher tire pressures are just going to wear out the tires quicker.Apart from the odd puncture I have never had a tire related accident in all the time I have been riding since 1978.I ride in all weather conditions not just a Sunny Sunday.

If riders tend to come off their machines often it is more than likely the riders riding style than the tires being at fault.

The tire pressure mentioned on Shinkos website for 712s is just the maximum tire pressure as I mentioned above.That is 40psi.

Increasing the tire pressures deduces the contact patch making them more dangerous.

Shinko Tyres Australia states the following:

SHINKO recommends the tyre pressure specified by the motorcycle manufacturer, except where otherwise stated.

[Terry in Australia]

Yep, I’ve spent too many nights in Emergency Wards Mark, but luckily I was either still in the Army or had private health insurance so I’ve never had to pay more than a few hundred bucks, but have heard horror stories about how much a medical emergency has cost someone. I did have to fork out a $7000 “Excess” on my gastric bypass in 2018, but if I didn’t have private health cover it would have been over $24K.

Tyre wise, under inflated tyres will overheat faster than over inflated tyres, and make for sh1t handling at speed. Modern tyres (including the Stinko’s, I have them on 3 CB750’s) are designed to be used at higher air pressures (the recommended air pressures for my FJR1300 is 38 front and 42 rear, my Rocket III is 42/46 etc etc) and my bikes are getting the same mileage as yours, even though they’re heavier and I’m probably riding them harder.

The recommendations on the sticker on your 50 year old bike is specific to the tyres that were available back then, but tyre technology has evolved markedly since then, so those recommendations should be ignored, and you should be checking the tyre manufacture’s recommendations. By the sound of things you’re not riding at 10/10ths so probably no biggie, but you’ll probably get even better tyre life on a smaller lighter bike if you follow the tyre manufacture’s recommendations.

[caluser2000]

See my previous Terry.

Shinko Tyres Australia recommends using the manufactures tire pressures, unless other wise indicated. That is from their font page at the bottom.

Where did you get your obviously blatently false information from prey tell?

I like to research on the topic I am discussing not rely some imaginary and totally obvious fictitious information.

My and other riders lives depend on it.

[Terry in Australia]

Ha ha, your angst is palpable Mark, what’s wrong mate, run out of those red pills? You understand of course, that the tyres we’re talking about are not made for just one model or brand of bike, the Stinko “Tourmasters” on my K2 for instance are listed for several bikes from Honda’s to Yamaha’s to Suzuki’s to Harleys, and if you read the recommendations for the more modern bikes, you’ll see that they recommend higher tyre pressures than Honda did 50 years ago for Bridgestone Speed Masters, which if course were completely different tyres with different compounds etc.

The statement that you’ve posted is Stinko’s generic legal statement, and not a true reflection of what modern tyres are capable of. I can assure you that no one is gonna die if they inflate their tyres to the pressures I’ve been using for the last 30 years or so.

I’m at work so I don’t have a lot of time right now, but if you’re genuinely concerned about people’s lives, and not just winning an argument, do some research into what other motorcycles those tyres also fit, and see what tyre pressures their manufacturers recommend. I’ll bet there’s a wider variance than that which Honda recommended for an obsolete tyre 50 years ago.

[markmyodb]

These are Avons run at Honda recommended pressures.  I like the low leakage tubes I bought with the tires; hold pressure within a few psi/month.

Pretty ain't she?
 

[caluser2000]

Ha ha, your angst is palpable

Absolutely no angst at all Terry. I've seen far too many old rider passing on totally INCORRECT INFORMATION which is exactly what you have done ol bean.

You just keep changing the goal post and does not change the previous posts you have made have been utter crap.

[Terry in Australia]

Ha ha, your angst is palpable

Absolutely no angst at all Terry. I've seen far too many old rider passing on totally INCORRECT INFORMATION which exactly what you have ol bean.

You just keep changing the goal post and does not change the previous post you have mad has been utter crap.

Ha ha, hey do you have an owners manual for Darky? I need to check mine when I go home, I’m sure there is a recommendation for increased tyre pressures for high speed/two up touring? I’ll take a look when I get home just to be sure.

[caluser2000]

These are Avons run at Honda recommended pressures.  I like the low leakage tubes I bought with the tires; hold pressure within a few psi/month.

Pretty ain't she?
 

It looks fantastic Mark.

[david 750f]

Nothing wrong with playing around with tire (tyre) pressures. My Avon RoadRiders handle much better with 32 front 36 rear. 3.25-19 and 4.00-18 tires.  Which is higher than Avon recommends, as Terry stated these tires are meant for a wide range of bikes (and weights).

[caluser2000]

Of course the is nothing wrong with experimenting wih pressures. It has been done since pneumatic tires have existed.

I run my CB550 tires 2psi above what Honda stated solo. My bike handles perfectly. It's 17kgs lighter wet than the stock 206kgs.
I run my XF650 at Suzukis recommended pressures. It handles perfectly as well. It's stock.

Start with the manufactures recommendation then adjust as you see fit. Don't start at some imaginary mythical pressure that is ment be on tire manufactures web site according to Terry. That is blatently false

[PeWe]

I have tried higher pressures which did not improve handling or comfort.
The opposite is my experience on my K6. More "jumpy" in corners on rather good country roads. It felt like occasional loss of grip. Not comfy for my hands and bottom.

I use the information on the Honda sticker for sustained high speed.
2.1 BAR/30 PSI front
2.4 BAR/34PSI rear

Test different pressures can be a good thing. Do not forget to try what Honda recommended and feel for yourself.

Shocks involved too....
I have good shocks rear on my K6. IKONs with stock look and progressive springs.
Front progressive springs from Wirth. (It had US made Progressive before I have given my K2)

My K2 has similar IKONs but with not progressive springs and they really sucks in comparison!
Not much better then the less than 200€ stock knock offs. Maybe not better....

I have tried all settings. Result is too soft or to hard.
With Progressive springs I have a good ride height for my hips (highest) and comfy setting at softest damping (1).
Run stable in higher speeds too.

A racer might choose 1 step lower height and damping 2. This for quicker cornering from one side to another.

I'll see.. I might give the K2 decent shocks as my K6 with progressive springs. I have only seen them at Classic Cycle City in Germany.

[Terry in Australia]

Of copurse the is nothing wrong with experimenting wih pressures. It has been done since pneumatic tires have existed.

I run my CB550 tires 2psi above what Honda stated solo. My bike handles perfectly. It's 17kgs lighter wet than the stock 206kgs.
I run my XF650 at Suzukis recommended pressures. It handles perfectly as well. It's stock.

Start with the manufactures recommendation then adjust as you see fit. Don't start at some imaginary mythical pressure that is ment be on tire manufactures web site according to Terry. That is blatently false

Ha ha, good old "selective understanding" Mark? What I actually said, was check what the manufacturers of the bikes recommend for their tyre pressures, not Stinko's website. I asked the question, do you have a Honda owners manual? and you didn't reply, because either 1. you saw the actual factory specs and didn't want to admit that you were wrong, or, 2, you hadn't done any actual research. As I still have a job, I had to wait until I got home from work before I could do any research, and fcuk me, Honda actually agreed with my suggested tyre pressure, 52 years ago?

I checked my 1969 CB750K0 owners manual, and found this:

Tyre pressures 1a by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Tyre pressures by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Yes yes, I understand that your tired old 550 will probably never see the 110 MPH or better speeds, but for those of us with hot rodded 750's, 110 MPH is no biggie, so the 1969 Honda recommendation of 34 PSI rear and 32 PSI front at those speeds isn't much different from my recommendation of 36 rear and 32 front, as Steve previously mentioned, and you agreed with. Definitely not dangerous, life threatening, and blah blah blah, that you ranted on when I suggested that I've been using those tyre pressures for the last 30 years, or so.

I checked the sidewall rating on the Stinko 712's on my CB750F2 and saw that they're "H" rated, i.e, 130 MPH at 140 PSI max, so my 36/32 psi recommendation is well within the tyre manufacturers recommendations.

Tyre pressures 2 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

So (not having the sticker on my chainguard that you apparently do) did you know that the Honda recommendation for "sustained high speeds" agreed with my recommendation, or did you just ignore that fact in your quest to win an argument? If so, that's pretty pathetic mate, and gives us all an insight into your own personal integrity. You appeared from nowhere, and that's where you're destined to return.      

[caluser2000]

Terry you really full of it I'm not going anywhere.

Pressure on side walls is max pressure.

When I see bull #$%* I'll call it it out. Simple as that.