Topic: Terry's Half Arsed Fake K0 K2 Rat bike project.

[Terry in Australia]

OK, so this was never gonna be a project. A couple of weeks ago I saw a CB750 on Ebay Oz that was supposedly a K0 frame, with K1/2 parts, and a K2 engine. I contacted the dealer, who gave me the frame number (1015XXXX) so I took him at his word, and offered him 600 bucks less than his asking price, which he accepted. Bonus!

I'd dealt with him before when I bought the F2, and while he hadn't mentioned some of the more glaring faults, it was cheap enough, so I bought it. By sheer coincidence, James H here contacted me and said that he had a set of 1016XXXX K0 cases he'd sell me cheap, plus a head and some cylinders. Brilliant! I'd intended to use a cheap transport company who moved my rolling K0 chassis from Brisbane to Melbourne for only $160, but the seller rang me to say he' put it on a trailer (even though I didn't ask him to) and the cost would be $350. Oh well, it saved me a job, I suppose.....

A week later, on my 61st birthday a sh1tty old truck arrived outside my house with a trailer in tow. The driver was probably the most disorganised person I'd ever met, and I had to help him completely unload his rented trailer to get my bike out, that had a new dent on top of the tank, probably from where he'd been walking on it. Anyway, I gave him his 350 bucks and helped him repack his trailer, and as it was my birthday, he gave me a can of beer that looked like he'd driven over it in his truck, but as I was already drunk (he was 2 hours late) I gratefully received it, and drank it in one swig. It was dark, so I wheeled it into the patio and had a quick look before retiring for the night.

K0 Bitsa K2 Bitsa Friday 12 Mar 2021 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Next morning I wheeled it out into the sun and took a closer look. The seat wasn't actually attached, it appears to be a NOS "Saddlemen" seat, as ugly as a Rottweiler sucking on a lemon, but surprisingly comfy.

K0 Bitsa K2 Bitsa Friday 12 Mar 2021 6 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Regardless, it wasn't staying. When I lifted it off and looked at the frame, my heart sank. One of the easiest "Telltales" on a K0 is that the cross brace on the frame behind the battery box is solid, it doesn't have a hole stamped in it like every other CB750. This frame had the hole.

Dodgy K0 frame number 1 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Fcuk. I double checked the frame number, and although it was the correct K0 number and the correct Honda script, it was sitting too low on the steering head.

Dodgy K0 frame number by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

By comparison, here's the number on my K2, in the same position as my real K0.

Dodgy K0 frame number 2 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

I sent the seller a text, and a couple of days later he replied saying that he'd accept my judgement, and offered me a 500 dollar refund. Hmmnn, well, better than nothing I guess. I contacted a guy I knew here to see if he had a K2 frame and told him the story. He's a K0 guy, and he laughed and told me that he'd told the seller that the "K0" was a fake a couple of days before he sold it to me. What a turd...... Anyway, my mate sold me a good frame for 500 bucks, plus the shipping from Brisbane. ($115) The intent was to put the K2 engine in the dodgy frame in a K2 frame and use the bike I build out of it to do a part trade for a Harley Heritage Softail with another mate.

That night, my mate Fred who was also aware I was looking for a K2 frame rang me to say a guy in far north Queensland (1400 miles away) had a K2 for sale for $1500. I found the ad, contacted him and said I'd transfer the money now, and organise transport. He rang me right back and said, "Sold! So now I have 2 K2 frames, 2 K2 engines, and enough parts to build 2 K2's, plus my K1. Sweet. Bottom line is, I didn't want to strip this bike for parts, but rather, build another 1970's themed "Rat" using as many of the parts as I can. I can't use the frame because, well, it's bogus, but I'll transfer everything across to another frame, and build something interesting out of it, once I've built the K2 for Dion, so I can have his Harley.

Funds are getting tight (I've just bought a set of K0 carbs from James for my K2 bitsa, because I love the light throttle pull of my K0) plus a new Kokusan ignition and K&N filter, but luckily Spotty came along with a cunning plan to buy his K7 back from me, which will free up some cash for more parts buying. I also sold Clay, the guy I bought the K2 frame from, my wrinkle tank, which pretty much paid for the transport of the newest K2 and the K2 frame, so things are kind of looking up. More tomorrow.

K0 Bitsa K2 Bitsa Friday 12 Mar 2021 9b by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

 

[PeWe]

Good Luck with the build Terry!
That frame number will not pass vehicle inspection when it look home made, right?

Not Honda specific stamps and different forces when stamped.

[BPellerine]

kinda sucks terry,but you will not have to hunt for ko parts

[PeWe]

An extra frame can be useful if you find a frame with historical important number you need to decaf.

[newday777]

Good Luck with the build Terry!
That frame number will not pass vehicle inspection when it look home made, right?

Not Honda specific stamps and different forces when stamped.

It might have been a dealer stamped replacement frame.

[Terry in Australia]

Good Luck with the build Terry!
That frame number will not pass vehicle inspection when it look home made, right?

Not Honda specific stamps and different forces when stamped.

It might have been a dealer stamped replacement frame.

Hmmnn, that’s a possibility I suppose, I guess I’ll find out once I strip it down and clean the paint off. I’ve seen restamped frames and cases, but not in the correct Honda font like this one. Regardless, everything else is K1 except the gauges and idiot lights, so I doubt it.

[WhyNot2]

wow......just wow......you got all those bikes, and running at that, and here all i have is 1 750, and can't get it running at all.

Nice, can't wait to see where this one goes......gotta get out there and yank those carbs again.

Bought some new berryman juice, so some soaking and cleaning and these 80 bux worth of gasket. We'll see, course it'll take me a month.

[Terry in Australia]

Ha ha, you'll get there mate! Make sure you strip the carbs right down, i.e., remove the jets, fuel mixture screws, everything! If you've got an air compressor, make sure you blow through every orifice and confirm that what goes in one end comes out another, then reassemble everything paying close attention to the mixture screw adjustment, float heights etc, try "bench synching" them using a piece of wire as a "gauge" to ensure all the slides are set at the correct height, and make sure the rubber insulators are all soft and not cracked, and they have to be good.

[Terry in Australia]

And I have to correct myself, the stamps used on the "fake" frame number are similar, but not the same as the standard Honda font. Not that it makes any difference, the seller made sure he didn't send me any pics of the frame number so I wouldn't have known until it arrived. Oh well, I kinda like it, so no biggie........

[BenelliSEI]

Terry...... I sure you’ll turn “a sow’s ear into a silk purse”, as usual!! I will be curious to see what you find on that headstock, when you clear away the paint above the stamped VIN number.

Last one I had that was “suspicious” had been smoothed over with nickel bronze and a file...... Lesson learned. I turned the bottom half of the frame into a lovely engine cart for the shop, and used the side stand bracket on the Rickman CR......

[Terry in Australia]

So moving along as chronologically as I can, once my heart healed and I realised that one of the benefits of not owning a second K0 is that I don't have to spend ridiculous amounts of money on crappy used K0 parts (not talking about the stuff James offered me, he was very generous, thanks mate!) so my thoughts turned to actually starting the bike up and taking it for a lap.

Well the first problem was that the seat wasn't actually attached to the bike, and the tank had no cap or petcock, and the rubber mount at the rear was missing, so the seller had secured the tank to the bike with a cable tie. I cut the cable tie and removed the tank, and noticed this.

K0 Friday 19 Mar 2021 1 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Yep, the bike that he'd advertised as "Runs Great" had a set of coils off a later model bike (which wasn't an issue) but the plug leads were so short they only reached 2 of the 4 spark plugs. Maybe "Runs great on two cylinders" would have been more accurate? Well I'd just removed the coils from my K2 bitsa, so I installed them, replaced the rotten fuel lines and routed them correctly, put the custom painted tank (which has a pinhole about halfway up, but is fine with just a little fuel down low) on, found a good used rubber rear mount, found a better seat and after searching through all my tubs found a K1 seat latch and hinges, and properly mounted the seat. The front master cylinder was also seized solid, so I removed it to rebuild at a later date, and installed an Ebay cheapie.

I stole the battery out of the Effing F2 and connected it up, turned on the gas, hit the button, and...... nothing. I took the tank back off and found that one of the wires from the ignition switch had fallen out of an aftermarket crimp connector, so I re-crimped it, put the tank back on, and even though the battery didn't have enough gumption to crank the engine, it fired up after the first or second kick.

   

[Terry in Australia]

Terry...... I sure you’ll turn “a sow’s ear into a silk purse”, as usual!! I will be curious to see what you find on that headstock, when you clear away the paint above the stamped VIN number.

Last one I had that was “suspicious” had been smoothed over with nickel bronze and a file...... Lesson learned. I turned the bottom half of the frame into a lovely engine cart for the shop, and used the side stand bracket on the Rickman CR......

Thanks John, yeah, sadly the frame is only good for parts, but my only other K1 frame has a broken lug for the passenger footpeg and someone's drilled a couple of extra holes in the frame, so it'll come in handy for parts. No biggie, I have an angle grinder and a welder, and my welds are no worse than Honda's were back then! While I've got you, my K1 frame number is 112XXXX and I'm really looking for a K1 frame in the 106XXXX region, so if you have one (or even the steering head........) let me know?

[Terry in Australia]

OK, so I installed the new MC, got the engine running nice, and thought I'd take it for a lap. I fired it up and grabbed the front brake so I could pull the clutch and pop it into 1st gear, and immediately started rolling backwards down the driveway. WTF? I had great lever pressure, just no front brake. OK, it had to be a blocked line or a frozen brake caliper piston. I decided to explore the caliper first:

The piston was badly pitted and the little domed "Hat" that allows the pad to self align with the rotor wasn't even there, so I found the piston from my K0 caliper rebuild, that was in much better shape, along with a new seal and "hat". The pads looked a bit odd.

Fake K0 tinkering 21 Mar 2021 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

I couldn't see much value in having a pad with a reduced surface area, God knows these things don't stop all that well with standard pads, so as there was plenty of meat on them, I put them in my lathe and machined them square and back to full width again.

Fake K0 tinkering 21 Mar 2021 1 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Fake K0 tinkering 21 Mar 2021 2 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

I reassembled the caliper, used some acetone to clean the disc rotor, and called it good. Whilst all this was going on I'd determined that it was the top brake hose that was blocked, so found a good used hose in a tub in my garage and installed it, then bled the brakes.

Fake K0 tinkering 21 Mar 2021 4 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

The rain slowed, so I rode it up and down the driveway, and apart from the noise, (no baffles) it went well. More on my absolute PITA  half-arsed baffle fix tomorrow.

[PeWe]

You need to describe all your CB750's with names and status
4, 5 or 6?
1x F2
2x K0 (1 real + 1 fake)
K2. Really only one?

I do not remember which you sold and not.

[Terry in Australia]

You need to describe all your CB750's with names and status
4, 5 or 6?
1x F2
2x K0 (1 real + 1 fake)
K2. Really only one?

I do not remember which you sold and not.

Ha ha, OK, current bikes in my garage as follows:

1970 K0 (my favourite)
1971 K1 (in pieces)
1971 K0 (fake, the featured one in this thread)
1972 K2 Bitsa (with recently rebuilt engine)
1972 K2 (to be delivered in the next two weeks, floods permitting)
1977(?) K7 (at Spotty's place, Spotty is buying it back)
1978 F2.

So, there's 7 CB750's that are more or less complete, but I also have another K2 frame coming down from Brisbane to build into a complete bike using parts from the "Fake K0" to build a rat. That still leaves several engines and frames around the place, but may or may not ever be built into bikes, I might just keep them for parts.
 

[BenelliSEI]

Terry...... I sure you’ll turn “a sow’s ear into a silk purse”, as usual!! I will be curious to see what you find on that headstock, when you clear away the paint above the stamped VIN number.

Last one I had that was “suspicious” had been smoothed over with nickel bronze and a file...... Lesson learned. I turned the bottom half of the frame into a lovely engine cart for the shop, and used the side stand bracket on the Rickman CR......

Thanks John, yeah, sadly the frame is only good for parts, but my only other K1 frame has a broken lug for the passenger footpeg and someone's drilled a couple of extra holes in the frame, so it'll come in handy for parts. No biggie, I have an angle grinder and a welder, and my welds are no worse than Honda's were back then! While I've got you, my K1 frame number is 112XXXX and I'm really looking for a K1 frame in the 106XXXX region, so if you have one (or even the steering head........) let me know?

Terry..... I have no frames left (and proud of it). K0/K1’s Getting very scarce around here. I will check around. John D..

[PeWe]

You need to describe all your CB750's with names and status
4, 5 or 6?
1x F2
2x K0 (1 real + 1 fake)
K2. Really only one?

I do not remember which you sold and not.

Ha ha, OK, current bikes in my garage as follows:

1970 K0 (my favourite)
1971 K1 (in pieces)
1971 K0 (fake, the featured one in this thread)
1972 K2 Bitsa (with recently rebuilt engine)
1972 K2 (to be delivered in the next two weeks, floods permitting)
1977(?) K7 (at Spotty's place, Spotty is buying it back)
1978 F2.

So, there's 7 CB750's that are more or less complete, but I also have another K2 frame coming down from Brisbane to build into a complete bike using parts from the "Fake K0" to build a rat. That still leaves several engines and frames around the place, but may or may not ever be built into bikes, I might just keep them for parts.

You need 73, 74, 75, 76 for a straight flush!
With a 69, a royal!!   

[BenelliSEI]

Terry...... checked around with “the usual suspects”, in my area. Closest bare frame i found is CB750-2018304. A K2, I think? Bare, with centre stand, no swing arm. Guy said he’d give it to me, if I lace him a couple of wheels. Been thinking of building an engine test bed, so will probably pick it up.....
Stay well. John D.

[Just John]

Terry, I have a spare 71 frame CB750-108xxxx if you are interested.  It is in Atlanta, GA.   Depending upon where your Florida shipper is located I may also be able to deliver it to the shipper.

Regards,
John

[Don R]

 Looks like fun, I'm diggin the paint job.

[Terry in Australia]

Terry, I have a spare 71 frame CB750-108xxxx if you are interested.  It is in Atlanta, GA.   Depending upon where your Florida shipper is located I may also be able to deliver it to the shipper.

Regards,
John

G’day John, hey thanks mate, that’d be great! My shipper is in Sarasota, is that do-able? I did have a Kawasaki Kz1000 frame sent to them from Ohio, but that was pretty expensive? PM me with a price, if you like? Cheers, Terry.

[BenelliSEI]

Terry..... I think getting a frame from Toronto to Florida is way more than it’s worth. I’m guessing $3-400. I’ll check and confirm. Something from the S.E. USA would be much less.

[Terry in Australia]

Terry..... I think getting a frame from Toronto to Florida is way more than it’s worth. I’m guessing $3-400. I’ll check and confirm. Something from the S.E. USA would be much less.

Ha ha, sorry John, different John. "Just John" offered me a frame, and he's in Georgia.

Terry, I have a spare 71 frame CB750-108xxxx if you are interested.  It is in Atlanta, GA.   Depending upon where your Florida shipper is located I may also be able to deliver it to the shipper.

Regards,
John

[PeWe]

Not good to read here!
Getting bad ideas...
I have a K1 bottom end in need of restoration, K1 cyl w head, K1 fenders, extra wheels....can get my Lotus root pipes.... Just find the other parts
Gauges a heavy cost....

Need a bigger garage to start with

[grcamna2]

Terry,it "Runs Great", with a bit of work.. 

[Terry in Australia]

Very true, Bill. Well I've just spent the last 3 days trying to quieten it down. I can honestly say, what a turd of a job! The megaphones were empty of any baffles that I could see, except for a 6mm thick "washer" welded (poorly) into the tail pipes, maybe to increase the back pressure?

K0 bitsa Monday 22 Mar 2021 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Now my first instinct was to remove the washers, which were tack welded into the back of the pipes, but it was too much of a PITA, so I decided to "Bore them out" instead, so that I could fit a length of perforated exhaust tube wrapped in fibreglass exhaust packing and somehow secure it to the exhaust. I have a huge 6-60mm step drill which is really only meant for mild steel, aluminium etc, and I found out very quickly that the "Washers" were more than likely stainless steel. the holes were around 25mm, and to take them out to approx 50mm, it took around 2 hours for the first hole, which included my big arsed Bosch drill occasionally grabbing and rotating 180 degrees, almost breaking my wrist, and at one stage crushing my right thumb betwixt the drill and the bike's rear wheel rim. Fcuk it hurt.

Fake K0 Wednesday 24 Mar 2021 3 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Not my worst injury ever, but the fcuker throbbed for the rest of the night. Due to my medical issues, I can't take anti inflammatory drugs, but in this case I made an exception, Tramadol wasn't working, so I found some Celebrex capsules and took one before I went to bed, and in the morning it was only sore.

Next day I cut a piece of perforated tube, used a hole saw and my poor suffering step drill to make another "washer" from 3mm plate, and tack welded them together.

Fake K0 tinkering 23 Mar 2021 6 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

I wrapped it in the fibreglass packing, and as the outer hole was very tight, wrapped it in masking tape so I could get it thru the hole.

Fake K0 Wednesday 24 Mar 2021 2 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Now my cunning plan was to drill and tap a couple of holes through my "washer" and the "washer" that was welded to the pipe, but after breaking my tap drill, I settled on 4 x 5mm long pop rivets instead. I could have welded them, but not knowing how the "baffles" would effect the performance or sound, I wanted to be able to remove them again if needed. I also slopped in some Wurth high temp silicone sealant to help reduce any vibration, rattling etc, as a rattling exhaust is a fools frustration, according to Maxwell Smart, from memory.........

Fake K0 Wednesday 24 Mar 2021 4 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

So that was one side. The next day (yesterday) I had to drill the hole on the left side. By this stage my step drill was so blunt it took almost 4 hours of drilling, grinding, sanding, weeping, swearing, gnashing my teeth and more weeping, until I'd achieved the aim. I cut another washer, (by now my step drill was almost dead so I had to enlarge the hole in my lathe, then welded it to another piece of tube, wrapped it in fibreglass packing, and shoved it up the hole. I bent my first 5mm drill bit which pissed me off, but I had another one, and managed to drill the holes, slopped in some more high temp silicon sealant and did the pop riveting thing.

Fake K0 exhaust 23 Mar 2021 3 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

I cleaned it with acetone, which immediately found every cut on every finger, then I sprayed some good old Rustoleum satin black on the new baffle plates to camouflage my redneck rework. I fired it up, and was happy with the result.

Thank God for that. I've just ordered another big arsed step drill, but I hope I never have another job like that, it wasn't just mind numbing, it was painful. Apart from my thumb, I almost broke my wrists several times when the bit grabbed and spun me and the drill around @ 500 revs. I was so tempted to just forget about it and buy another Delkevic, but I kind of like that old 4 into 2, so I persevered, and am happy with the result, but never again.

I did take it for a sneaky ride around the block at lunchtime, and discovered several other issues. It has either loose or buggared steering head bearings that are very obvious when you apply the (now working again) front brake, and a rear brake that jams on when you apply it, and won't release until you rock it back and forth for a few minutes, what a PITA. Of course both tyres are absolutely shot and there wouldn't be 10 psi in either of them, so it was a very cautious ride, but I did give it the berries on the straight sections a couple of times in 1st and second, and it's got plenty of power, so that was good.

I had more parcels arrive for the K2 bitsa, so I moved some bikes around between showers (it's been raining on and off all week) and parked the old rat in the garage so I had some space to work on the bitsa. More later.

Fake K0 exhaust 23 Mar 2021 4 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr





 

[BenelliSEI]

Terry..... I think getting a frame from Toronto to Florida is way more than it’s worth. I’m guessing $3-400. I’ll check and confirm. Something from the S.E. USA would be much less.

Ha ha, sorry John, different John. "Just John" offered me a frame, and he's in Georgia.

Terry, I have a spare 71 frame CB750-108xxxx if you are interested.  It is in Atlanta, GA.   Depending upon where your Florida shipper is located I may also be able to deliver it to the shipper.

Regards,
John

OK! Good Luck.

[PeWe]

Look good Terry!
You might have found the recipe for a power increasing exhaust!
Your bikes are really built with blood sweat and tears!!

"Terry bikes", they have your DNA and will run as raping monkeys!

[grcamna2]

Look good Terry!
You might have found the recipe for a power increasing exhaust!
Your bikes are really built with blood sweat and tears!!

"Terry bikes", they have your DNA and will run as raping monkeys!

Lol 

[grcamna2]

Terry,those hardened steel(SS?)washers welded onto the ends of those pipes.. What a PITA and some cursed parts to struggle with for you:you fought them for many hours and won. I would hate to need to deal with those,would rather consider removing them.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

I'm sure that acetone DID find every cut in your fingers!!

[RAFster122s]

Yeah, hate messing with acetone because you definitely find any and all cuts and the stripping oil from your skin isn't fun.  Almost as bad a messing with bleach stripping the fat or oils as well.

The washers remove nd me of that Snuf-not or something like that which was a washer that spun on a post you would use on open pipes to switch from drag race mode with them not blocking the pipe outlet but when you needed to be quieter so Johnny Law wouldn't hassle you turned them 90 degrees so they looked like large washers reducing the outlet and quieting the exhaust some.

Glad you got them fixed. Too bad ya couldn't easily attach the drill to a rig that allowed you to adjust the angle and height needed and be setup to where you could stand on this frame to keep from breaking your wrists and then a lever or you bend over to push it forward. Sliding trolly the drill is attached to and bearing/bushing rails it slides on as needed.
Probably failing miserable in describing...
Few laser projections from a bore sight style laser you could rotate and adjust how far from chuck center, so you could figure out if it is drilling at the right angles.

Glad you are progressing....

[Terry in Australia]

Thanks guys, and David, I do understand your Idea, it would work well, but building a rig like that would add more time and complexity that I didn't want to give it as I'd probably never need to use it again.

I actually thought about cutting the pipes off behind the washers as I probably would have destroyed them if I used my oxy torch to cut the welds off. I actually have a set of "Snuff or Not" thingies that I bought maybe 20 years ago?

They'd probably do the job, but as much as I like "loud" pipes, I don't like straight out pipes, a good "lightly baffled" performance pipe makes for a nice crisp note, whereas a straight out system just converts gas into noise.