Topic: 1975 cb550f

[Fezzler]

Chain...

...looks a little loose!

LOL.  Don't push me man!  I still need to pull the wheel back and adjust the chain.  I can't eat two pieces of elephant in one sitting.

[Fezzler]

Stuff.

[Fezzler]

More "braking" news.

Insight.  I have followed SohRon's Assembly Manual with great success and joy.  But he installs the rear brake pivot shaft after the center stand, swingarm, rear brake stop bar, chain, chain guard, etc. have been installed.

This is fine for the cb500/cb550Ks.  Well, with the "F" model of the cb550 the pivot shaft is much different than the 500/550Ks.  I could not figure out how to install it.  It would not clear the swingarm. So I dropped the swingarm to get it done.  Three steps forward, two back.  Pivot.  Moving on.

It has not been impossible or totally miserable, but I'm not sure I would buy someone's abandoned project bike again.  That said, enjoying the problem solving.

[seanbarney41]

Yeah, that brake pivot shaft has to go in first with cb750's also...



 

[Stev-o]

It has not been impossible or totally miserable, but I'm not sure I would buy someone's abandoned project bike again.  That said, enjoying the problem solving.

Hey Fezz...A few years back, I bought a "basket case" '74 Kawasaki H2  [750cc, three cylinder, two stroke]. The project came in 4 large containers, a bare frame and two wheels.
It was a very frustrating project, but I found I learned so much about it during the process, and once finished I felt very satisfied and proud of what I had accomplished. I hope the same for you.

[Fezzler]

It has not been impossible or totally miserable, but I'm not sure I would buy someone's abandoned project bike again.  That said, enjoying the problem solving.

Hey Fezz...A few years back, I bought a "basket case" '74 Kawasaki H2  [750cc, three cylinder, two stroke]. The project came in 4 large containers, a bare frame and two wheels.
It was a very frustrating project, but I found I learned so much about it during the process, and once finished I felt very satisfied and proud of what I had accomplished. I hope the same for you.

Totally. I do like working on them.  After this one I need to decide if I'll do another, take a break, or exit the hobby.  As I sit now, I think I'll do another but starting to think about how to reduce space used by the stash of parts that keeps growing.  Also, kinda wonder if it would be fun to attempt another bike. Something small.  350?  125?  175? 450?  Yamaha?  CX500? Not really interested in the 750s, but does 500/550 knowledge "transfer" to the 750s?

Well, need to stay focus on digesting what I bit off here.

 

[Stev-o]

It has not been impossible or totally miserable, but I'm not sure I would buy someone's abandoned project bike again.  That said, enjoying the problem solving.

Hey Fezz...A few years back, I bought a "basket case" '74 Kawasaki H2  [750cc, three cylinder, two stroke]. The project came in 4 large containers, a bare frame and two wheels.
It was a very frustrating project, but I found I learned so much about it during the process, and once finished I felt very satisfied and proud of what I had accomplished. I hope the same for you.

Not really interested in the 750s, but does 500/550 knowledge "transfer" to the 750s?

Yes, the CB750 is the same basic bike. 

I would encourage it for a couple reasons such as parts are readily available, it's a historically significant bike and we can help you!

[seanbarney41]

to me, cb750s are just easier to work on because everything is very similar to a 500/550 except just proportionately bigger...and maybe just a little bit simpler.  Honda's engineering always some to increase in complexity over time.

[BenelliSEI]

Yeah, that brake pivot shaft has to go in first with cb750's also...

It’s taken a while, but I did it in the right order on my last two! I like to drill and tap the pivot tube for a grease fitting. Surprised Honda never provided an easy way to lubricate that spot…..

The availability of parts makes the 1969-76 cb750 a good choice. A word of caution: start with a very complete bike, preferably with a running engine. It’s very easy for the “sum of the parts” to well exceed the value of the completed project!

[Stev-o]

Yeah, that brake pivot shaft has to go in first with cb750's also...

It’s taken a while, but I did it in the right order on my last two!

I think most of us have made that mistake once!

[Oddjob]

Yeah, that brake pivot shaft has to go in first with cb750's also...

It’s taken a while, but I did it in the right order on my last two! I like to drill and tap the pivot tube for a grease fitting. Surprised Honda never provided an easy way to lubricate that spot…..

The availability of parts makes the 1969-76 cb750 a good choice. A word of caution: start with a very complete bike, preferably with a running engine. It’s very easy for the “sum of the parts” to well exceed the value of the completed project!

And here's me thinking I was the only one fitting a grease nipple on the brake pivot tube, I also do one on the headstock so I can lubricate the head bearings without dismantling the front end, on my 500 I fit the 550K swinging arm as that still has the removable blocks for rear wheel removal and it also has a fitted grease nipple, I fit one on the centre stand, doing the side stand next and I've also done the front caliper brackets so I can grease that pivot. I prefer to spend a little time beforehand so it saves me time and money later in the bikes life. There may be more but that's all I can think of right now.

[Oddjob]

I use taper rollers, it works fine.

[Oddjob]

Are you sure you're visualising how the setup works? The rollers face up and down, the headstock stem is not a tight fit inside the outer race, so grease travels along the stem, through the gap between the stem and the outer race, around the rollers and finally forces it's way out of the ends of the headstock. When I pump grease in it comes out of both ends of the headstock the same way it does on the swinging arm.

Annual use, 10K approx, the 500 none at the moment as it's not finished. Grease goes hard over time, it moves away from the surfaces as it's compressed away, it's way most headstock bearings are surrounded by a wall of hard grease with little left on the bearings themselves. A quick squirt of new grease just helps keep them well greased and working as they should. No idea why this idea seems to upset you so much.

[RAFster122s]

It is the grease breaking down into oil at the moving parts that does the real work, the grease merely a carrier for the oil that does the lubrication. Any wear particles gets distributed out into the grease surrounding the parts of grot doesn't remain in the wear surfaces.
The grease serves as a viscous barrier to dirt getting to the moving parts being lubricated.
 Isn't that how it works?

[seanbarney41]

Lord help the mechanic that has to clean up that mess next time it's apart.  Those bearings survival, whether balls or tapered rollers, depend much more on proper adjustment than the presence of dirt and/or grease.

[Oddjob]

As in most things, time will be the judge.

I've also taken apart a headstock with this mod done, sure it was a little messy but easily doable. The hardest part was filling the headstock with grease first off. I can say though that when the nipple is used grease mushrooms out all around the headstock, not just in one place, to get there is has to pass through the rollers IMO. Usually the grease coming out is discoloured from usage. Showing that it has been replaced by new grease. Again, time will tell.

Oh and I have needle bearings in my swinging arm, the normal 500 swinging arm spindle has to be changed as the grease nipples wouldn't work as the collar is not drilled to allow the grease through so you'd just end up filling the collar. I had to change the swinging arm to a 550K one to get the central grease nipple which feeds grease in outside the collar. Same principle applies as the headstock there, again my opinion.

[Oddjob]

Yes but the needle roller conversion kit replaces that with a collar that doesn’t have any holes, fine on the 550 with it’s central grease nipple but not on the 500 which greases the bushes through the spindle.

[Oddjob]

Seals? There are no seals on taper rollers. If it was pushing old grease from the tube it wouldn't be discoloured, when I opened one recently that had been done for a few years the grease inside still looked like new, only the grease in the bearing and around it looked different.

[Fezzler]

Now back to regular programming . . .

More stuff:

(Seat, tank and exhaust just loosely positioned to see how it is shaping up.  On the "F", quite a feat of engineering integrating the right foot peg, kickstart lever and rear brake pedal! Oh, getting the brass swingarm bearings on the '78 and '71 was a chore.  On the '75 "F" the freeze/cold method worked perfect and I really like the rubber swingarm caps as opposed to the thin metal ones.)

Eating the elephant. 

[HondaMan]

Now back to regular programming . . .

More stuff:

(Seat, tank and exhaust just loosely positioned to see how it is shaping up.  On the "F", quite a feat of engineering integrating the right foot peg, kickstart lever and rear brake pedal! Oh, getting the brass swingarm bearings on the '78 and '71 was a chore.  On the '75 "F" the freeze/cold method worked perfect and I really like the rubber swingarm caps as opposed to the thin metal ones.)

Eating the elephant. 

About those swingarm bushings:
it sounds like you used the type with the 'top hat' bushing flanges on them? What brand are they (or where did they come from?)

Reason I ask is: I just finished re-rebuilding a 550 swingarm for a fellow Coloradoan, and his new bronze bushings that he'd installed left their outer width wider than the length of the collar inside by about 0.002". So, even if he could have inserted the collar, the arm would have bound up solidly when the long bolt got tightened. I've seen this often with the flanged bronze bushings out there. The bushings also 'accordioned' on their way in, almost 0.003" too small on one side and 0.002" on the other, so the collar wouldn't fit in. I had to pull them out and make new bushings for it (and replace the collar because the old one was egg-shaped on one side by 0.003", pretty bad.)

[Fezzler]

Now back to regular programming . . .

More stuff:

(Seat, tank and exhaust just loosely positioned to see how it is shaping up.  On the "F", quite a feat of engineering integrating the right foot peg, kickstart lever and rear brake pedal! Oh, getting the brass swingarm bearings on the '78 and '71 was a chore.  On the '75 "F" the freeze/cold method worked perfect and I really like the rubber swingarm caps as opposed to the thin metal ones.)

Eating the elephant. 

About those swingarm bushings:
it sounds like you used the type with the 'top hat' bushing flanges on them? What brand are they (or where did they come from?)

Reason I ask is: I just finished re-rebuilding a 550 swingarm for a fellow Coloradoan, and his new bronze bushings that he'd installed left their outer width wider than the length of the collar inside by about 0.002". So, even if he could have inserted the collar, the arm would have bound up solidly when the long bolt got tightened. I've seen this often with the flanged bronze bushings out there. The bushings also 'accordioned' on their way in, almost 0.003" too small on one side and 0.002" on the other, so the collar wouldn't fit in. I had to pull them out and make new bushings for it (and replace the collar because the old one was egg-shaped on one side by 0.003", pretty bad.)

I don't remember where I bought the bushings for the '71 cb500.  I'll look some more and let you know if I find where.  For the '75 cb550f, looks like I got them from an outfit on eBay from So Cal named CycleSmith.  Ad said:

Item Length: 26.5mm main OD size. ID 21.4 mm ID
Manufacturer Part Number: Replaces OEM# 52108-457-300, 52108-422-300
OE/OEM Part Number: 52108-457-300, 52108-422-300, 52108-300-300
Made in Germany
8oz

I just remember for the cb500, the heat/freeze install didn't work.  They got halfway in and I was uncomfortable aggressively pounding on them so I had them pressed in.  For the cb550f, the heat/freeze worked great.  Used heavy duty waterproof grease with both.  Both frames were powder coated and I made sure the clean swingarm well before install for good fit.

[Stev-o]

I like that header, Fezz. What brand, I dont recognize it?

[Fezzler]

I like that header, Fezz. What brand, I dont recognize it?

Something the PO cobbled together.  I don't know the origin of the headers.  Not '75 cb550f?

I do know the cone/silencer is stamped with some language about meeting sound (83 db) and emission standards.  It also has a marking that reads "HONMC90447" if that means anything.  There appears to be a baffle in there as well.

I cleaned them up best I could and primed with high temp primer and hit with high temp paint.  I was going to wrap the headers but I think I like the all black look for this attempt to make something out of someone else's abandoned project.

[Fezzler]

A race to the wire. . .

Armed with wiring diagram, going to identify these before approaching bike. Purchased from 4-into-1 some time ago.
With a very, very preliminary glance, it seems to me some wires may be factory colors and other not? 
I'm going to assume they are not until I check against the diagram.

(Is it odd that the manufacturer doesn't supply a color code/diagram with the product?  After all, they designed and assembled it?  Even if it is somewhat generic.)

Wife and daughters like to do puzzles over the holidays.  Maybe I'll give them the diagram and loom.

[HondaMan]

Wife and daughters like to do puzzles over the holidays.  May be I'll give them the diagram and loom.

Now, THAT sounds like a plan!
I once saw a CB550F with the headers painted an emerald green (looked like powdercoat-ish paint?) under its orange-gold (OEM) flake tank. It was stunning in the sunlight! The muffler was still chrome. None of the pipes were OEM parts.