Author Topic: Valve cover damage (Read 3414 times)

Kevnz · « **on:** April 09, 2021, 09:49:12 PM »

Pulled the pan off my "good" motor a while ago, found the expected sludge, but the screen was clean, and no metallic bits in the sludge.
Did the same to my 2nd motor, had the expected sludge, but the screen was blocked with crap, including metallic aluminium debris. Lifted the breather and found this, presumably the source of the metal. I know I will need to strip the engine now, but is this valve cover still useable? Will oil spray up and out the breather? Thought about repairing with JB Weld, but am concerned that if it came loose and went through the engine, not much good would occur. What about using fibreglass mat and resin?
Thoughts welcome,
Thanks,
Kevin

bryanj · « **Reply #1 on:** April 09, 2021, 11:17:33 PM »

I would be wanting to find out what caused the damage before worrying if the cover is useable. It may turn out that other internal damagemay make it uneconomical to rebuild

Kevnz · « **Reply #2 on:** April 09, 2021, 11:35:31 PM »

Good thought. Engine turns over freely and has good compression, so I am assuming that whatever happened, was rectified. The cam chain looks ok. I presume it broke at some stage and tried to exit via the valve cover. Does that ever happen? Strangely, the external appearance of the engine is not indicitive of abuse, good screw heads etc. But certainly agree that engine internals need inspecting. Easier to attend to external cosmetics while it's apart too.

bryanj · « **Reply #3 on:** April 09, 2021, 11:45:54 PM »

In all the years i have been working on Hondas i have never seen a 500/550 break a cam chain.
If it looks like it has had some new valves when stripped it is a possibility, i wouldbe looking for damage in head and cylinders from loose cam chain.
As to the hole i dont think it would affect running or put oil out of bather as there are breathing holes in that casting anyway

dave500 · « **Reply #4 on:** April 10, 2021, 01:49:45 AM »

i think oil from the chain whizzing past would swamp that cover,if all the engine needs is that hole fixed id look at getting another cover,a piece of thin alloy could be formed then jb welded(glued)in place.

caluser2000 · « **Reply #5 on:** April 10, 2021, 03:44:27 AM »

Getting an engineer to tig weld it shouldn't be too hard. Then tidy it up wit files a grit paper.

pjlogue · « **Reply #6 on:** April 10, 2021, 04:01:13 AM »

It looks like the timing chain was loose and jumped a tooth which knocked a hole in the cover. Debris from that would be caught in the oil filter. Check the valve timing to make sure it is correct. Options for fixing the hole are getting it welded or get a replacement cover. JB weld would be a last resort if it were mine. If you go the JB weld route be sure to de-oil the exposed metal so the JB has a good bond to the cover. Acetone soaks and rinses will do a good job of cleaning the repair area before using JB.

-P.

Kevnz · « **Reply #7 on:** April 10, 2021, 05:36:48 PM »

Investigated further; good news and bad news. 3 of the 4 bolts adjacent to the cam sprocket required a socket to remove all the way out, suggesting the threads in the head were distorted, as they usually become finger tight once loosened. Fortunately, the threads cleaned up ok. The 4th bolt had been sheared off in the head and further outboard there is a helicoil, so I'm thinking this damage was caused by ham-fisted assembly rather than a failure in use. Not a good sign. Just confirms the engine will need to come apart and undergo serious scrutiny. Will put it aside and concentrate on the other bike; only got sidetracked waiting for chrome plater and upholsterer. Should be able to find little jobs to keep me occupied.
Thanks for the input.
BTW should the breather cover be painted or polished?
Thanks

dave500 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 10, 2021, 11:44:50 PM »

i just paint em black,they aint really seen,nothing worse than unkempt polished cases.

bryanj · « **Reply #9 on:** April 11, 2021, 12:15:07 AM »

Polished when new, corroded months later

Kevnz · « **Reply #10 on:** April 11, 2021, 12:51:05 AM »

Thanks guys, doesn't matter whether it is seen, it's what it is supposed to be. Polished it is.

dave500 · « **Reply #11 on:** April 11, 2021, 01:59:50 AM »

sure not silver paint from factory?with clear?

caluser2000 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 11, 2021, 10:17:08 AM »

I get rid of any trace or paint and lacquer.. Store properly and has been fine for decades with regular tidying up.I spray CRC5.56 over the engine in winter to form a thin film and clean less until the weather gets better. If cow dung gets splattered on the engine yhough II remove that immediately after the ride with the engine still warm.Respray with crcwhen finished.

wolf550 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 11, 2021, 11:10:50 AM »

also check which breather cover you have there is one that has a fence or a divider near the opening of the breather tube hose connector.
I think they added this in case that hump/ cam cover got broken somehow (i.e. ham fisted)

Don R · « **Reply #14 on:** April 11, 2021, 12:30:58 PM »

The inside of that cover looks like a tensioner failure, it took a lot of slack to mill out that groove.

Kevnz · « **Reply #15 on:** April 14, 2021, 03:17:37 AM »

Hi Team,
I've scored a replacement cover, but it's a bare unit, sans rocker gear. Anyone able to tell me how it comes apart, please? Looks like the rocker shafts have threaded holes, do you insert a puller into them? They move freely in and out, seemingly spring loaded, but don't pull straight out. Some force required, or am I overlooking something?
Thanks in advance

flatlander · « **Reply #16 on:** April 14, 2021, 03:56:17 AM »

thread in a bolt and pull them out. there are no springs.
newer covers have pins that hold the shafts in place, that need to be removed first.

dave500 · « **Reply #17 on:** April 14, 2021, 03:01:40 PM »

they may have a little vacuum from oil inside?

caluser2000 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 14, 2021, 03:45:38 PM »

The O'rings swell over time. That is all it is. Get correct thread bolt wind the #$%*er in and pull the shaft out.

When fitting those tappets in to the other rocker cover put an Oring at each outer end of the shaft before you fit the two end caps in place. This stops the shafts from rotating and damaging the ali tunnels they are located in.

Kevnz · « **Reply #19 on:** April 14, 2021, 08:16:22 PM »

Got them, just needed a good tug. Service manual seems to bypass this procedure.Thanks for the guidance, as always.

caluser2000 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 14, 2021, 08:24:14 PM »

That's good to see. You can use the craws of a claw hammer as a sliding hammer on the bolt shaft as well if needed.

flatlander · « **Reply #21 on:** April 14, 2021, 11:00:32 PM »

this deserves repeating:

Quote from: caluser2000 on April 14, 2021, 03:45:38 PM

When fitting those tappets in to the other rocker cover put an Oring at each outer end of the shaft before you fit the two end caps in place. This stops the shafts from rotating and damaging the ali tunnels they are located in.

it's a common problem with the older covers that the bores wear due to the shafts rotating. then you get so much play that your tappet adjustment doesn't hold any more. the added o-rings are an easy and cheap insurance.

caluser2000 · « **Reply #22 on:** April 14, 2021, 11:10:25 PM »

Quote from: flatlander on April 14, 2021, 11:00:32 PM

this deserves repeating:

Quote from: caluser2000 on April 14, 2021, 03:45:38 PM
When fitting those tappets in to the other rocker cover put an Oring at each outer end of the shaft before you fit the two end caps in place. This stops the shafts from rotating and damaging the ali tunnels they are located in.

it's a common problem with the older covers that the bores wear due to the shafts rotating. then you get so much play that your tappet adjustment doesn't hold any more. the added o-rings are an easy and cheap insurance.

Yip works a treat. The original tappet cover shaft bores were completely knackered when I pulled my '76 CB550s engine appart at around 80.000kms. Got a good second hand CB500 one to replace it from a local m/c wrecker.

80,000kms later on that tappet cover is still fine and dandy.

Kevnz · « **Reply #23 on:** April 14, 2021, 11:44:47 PM »

Agreed, good to know.
Bad news and good news. New cover had aftermarket bling tappet covers that had seized in the cover; just would not move, some already rounded off. Tried resizing down to 16mm, but still no go. Resorted to the "in the bbq" trick , which combined with a Stilson wrench did the trick. Fortunately, the aftermarket tappet covers are taller (thicker) than the standard ones,so was able to get good purchase on them. All part of the fun of a restoration! Keeps you on your toes.

caluser2000 · « **Reply #24 on:** April 15, 2021, 12:07:32 AM »

A good solid wack with a club hammer on the top of them helps

Filing the flats down so an imperial spanner or socket works also.

dave500 · « **Reply #25 on:** April 15, 2021, 12:18:25 AM »

six sided socket with the ramps ground off,like the one on the left.

Kevnz · « **Reply #26 on:** April 15, 2021, 12:22:11 AM »

Place in pre heated bbq, bake at 250 deg C and serve with seasonal vegetables!

I filed the flats down to a tight 16mm, had to hammer the socket on, still no go, hence bbq trick.

caluser2000 · « **Reply #27 on:** April 15, 2021, 01:34:22 PM »

Where did you source that cover from Kennz?

wolf550 · « **Reply #28 on:** April 15, 2021, 02:12:55 PM »

Quote from: Kevnz on April 15, 2021, 12:22:11 AM

Place in pre heated bbq, bake at 250 deg C and serve with seasonal vegetables!
I filed the flats down to a tight 16mm, had to hammer the socket on, still no go, hence bbq trick.

That would have been a great pic in the BBQ!
that cover looks medium... Medium well?
If you are going to be looking I still have an extra cover in my cabinet.

dave500 · « **Reply #29 on:** April 15, 2021, 02:55:29 PM »

when you can push a fork into it its ready!

Kevnz · « **Reply #30 on:** April 15, 2021, 07:28:23 PM »

All beadblasted and ready for some bling. Fortunately, tappet threads all good.
Caluser, got cover from PO, plus a few other bits. Got seat back from upholsterer, looking good. Beadblaster is my go to tool. A cheapo from Supercheap, it bleeds grit around the seals so end up with grit all over the garage floor, but worth the inconvenience.

Kevnz · « **Reply #31 on:** April 16, 2021, 01:38:26 PM »

Hi Guys,
I just swapped over the rocker gear into the new cover. Just noticed, when picking up the cover from the other bike, that the rockers are quite loose, move freely. On the one I have just done, there were wavy washers on the rocker shafts that take out the endfloat on each rocker; not shown in the parts manual. Is this a later mod or something a PO has done? Rockers are quite stiff to move, others just rattle.
Thanks.

Kelly E · « **Reply #32 on:** April 16, 2021, 02:30:52 PM »

Quote from: Kevnz on April 15, 2021, 07:28:23 PM

All beadblasted and ready for some bling. Fortunately, tappet threads all good.
Caluser, got cover from PO, plus a few other bits. Got seat back from upholsterer, looking good. Beadblaster is my go to tool. A cheapo from Supercheap, it bleeds grit around the seals so end up with grit all over the garage floor, but worth the inconvenience.

When we got our blast cabinet we used silicone caulk for metal and layed a solid bead along all of the joints before assembled them. Once cured we removed any excess from the inside. It barely leaks any media. We spill more opening the door.

Kevnz · « **Reply #33 on:** April 16, 2021, 03:35:24 PM »

That's not a bad idea. I added spongy internal door sealing strips, but they have compressed a bit and are now leaking, although they were never really good.
Thanks for the idea.

Motorcycle jones · « **Reply #34 on:** April 17, 2021, 04:29:20 PM »

What motorcycle and what year?

robvangulik · « **Reply #35 on:** April 18, 2021, 02:48:07 AM »

If you read only the last few posts you'll never know

Kevnz · « **Reply #36 on:** April 18, 2021, 03:49:37 AM »

Picture about 3 posts ago is a bit of a clue. Made an executive decision and decided to remove the spring washers; the rockers were too tight on the shafts for my liking. Now on the bike with tappets adjusted.

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Author Topic: Valve cover damage (Read 3414 times)