Topic: Terry's horrible K2 Budget Build.

[Terry in Australia]

Thanks Sean, I paid the annual registration fee on the Sporty yesterday and thought, “I don’t think I’ve ridden it this year yet?” I might have in Early January while on annual leave as I have a vague memory that I rode all my rideable bikes over that period, but yeah, it’s doubtful that it’ll ever wear out while I’ve got it.

I did let my son ride it (and managed to burn my leg on the hot pipe, which became infected again.....) when I moved it on his return while I was wearing shorts and flip flops, and he hasn’t asked to ride it since, so he either hates it, or the “hair trigger” throttle response (when compared to his very docile Royal Enfield 650) frightened him a tad?

Regardless, yep, those hot up kits will probably still be in their original packaging as my ashes are being scattered as per my wishes, into the air conditioner ducting at the first Australian electric motorcycle dealership.

[Alan F.]

Terry I just spotted this 883 with a Hammer 1250 https://nh.craigslist.org/mcy/d/mont-vernon-2001-sportster/7304447103.html

[Terry in Australia]

Well I do worry a bit when I see someone describing a bike for sale as "My baby". I've bought and sold lots of bikes over the years, and if some of the bikes described like that actually were children, their "parents" would be jailed for child abuse......

$3250 seems a bit expensive for an 883 that's been painted matt black, and has a big bore kit (installed by whom?) while the front tank mounting bolt appears to be missing, and it still has the stock pipes and carb? No mention of cams either, and the ignition system may or may not be a Dyna 2000i like the one I still have in a box, or it might just have a dual fire Dyna coil (mis)matched to the OEM ignition?

Personally, I'd leave it alone. My advice, for what it's worth is try to buy a "one owner" 1994-2003 1200 in original (un-fcuked with) condition that has a service history, and do any mods as you see fit once you've gotten used to riding it. It may well be that the stock bike makes you happy and you don't need to hot it up, as I've previously mentioned, my stock engine with the Mikuni carb and Bassani pipe makes me happy, and I own far more powerful bikes.

Why did I start at 1194, and stop at 2003? Well the 1994 model was the first of the 5 speed gearbox models, and the later ones had the "Buell" heads and rubber mounted engines so made more power in stock form, but weighed a heap more than the older ones, and of course, the older ones are cheaper. (like me) The 883's are OK, but in stock form are fairly uninspiring, to me at least. (with apologies to any 883 owners) The best thing you can do is take it for a ride, and see if you actually like riding it.

[Alan F.]

Right, points taken its not like it was his primary transport, it was a cash drain/boat anchor that he's finally been instructed to sell or else....

Someday when my projects are all finished (HA!) I want to make the rounds of local bike shops with a few grand in my pocket to see what I can lowball them out of. There are a few areas nearby that have 5 or 6 different dealerships in as many miles, and they all have a building out back full of used bikes.

[Terry in Australia]

Yep, I was watching a "Motorcycle Only" episode of "Barn Find Hunter" a couple of days ago, and he was interviewing a guy who apparently owns 5000 motorcycles! (plus heaps of cars too)

This guy was doing a bit of that Alan, he had a lot of really nice, low mileage (and several "No mileage") bikes that he'd bought from dealerships, Harleys, Triumphs, all the Japanese brands, he was so well known that dealerships and private sellers would call him to see if he'd take the bikes off their hands? He doesn't sell them, and they're stored in dusty barns with cartons of various things stacked on, and around them, but he's not a seller, he's a bike hoarder.

As much as it'd be nice to see those bikes in pristine condition and out on the road, at least they're being saved, and as he's probably in his late 60's now, another generation will get to benefit from his passion when he finally turns up his toes, and there's a huge estate auction.    

[Terry in Australia]

But, as I'm wont to do, I digress. I can't remember why I didn't post this last night, I was only watching the movie "Weird Science" with Kelly LeBrock, and for some reason I couldn't take my eyes off the screen?

I got home from work and armed with my little Dewalt rattle gun, started the engine strip. The first issue, as previously mentioned, was some rust on the cam.

K2 misery 13 Apr 2021 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

K2 misery 13 Apr 2021 1 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Surprisingly, a little time on the wire wheel attachment on my pedestal grinder cleaned all the gunge off, and in a pinch, I'd use it with no real concerns. I'd removed the rocker assemblies so I could release the cam, and apart from a little surface rust they were good too. The cam towers again, were fine with no obvious wear. I still remember having to buy new rockers and cam towers to rebuild the top end of my K1 engine, and didn't get much change out of $1000, which really hurt as I'd only paid 300 bucks for the bike at the time, and it came with a spare bike. (which had been given to a mate, so I couldn't do any parts swapping)

As the engine is locked up, I had to drive some of the rocker arm shafts out with a brass drift, but they all came out fine, with no obvious damage either. OK, so far, so good. I'd doused all the head stud nuts with penetrating fluid the night before, and they all came off fine. Spotty had given me a heap of plastic tubs, as as I removed something I put it in the tub, which kept the bench slightly tidier, and will be handy when I've got the "donor engine" up on the bench to do some guts swapping.

Anyway, next step was to remove the head.

K2 misery 13 Apr 2021 2 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

All the nuts came off, and I was wondering if perhaps the top end hadn't been apart before because I couldn't find any sketchy odd nuts and bolts, but when I took the (rock hard) pucks out, I saw that one of the 6mm bolts beneath didn't have the "phillips" head, so obviously it's been off before. Oh well, no biggie, they all came out easily, so it was time to remove the head, which came off very easily too. sadly though, that's where the positives ended.

K2 misery 13 Apr 2021 4 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

K2 misery 13 Apr 2021 3 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

The two middle pistons (thankfully right at the bottom of their stroke) had a layer of wet, rusty mud at least an inch deep. I used a scraper and tissues to mop the mud out (I did it once before with compressed air, and answered the question, "Where were you when the sh1t hit the fan?" and never want to do that again) then decided to mix up some "Hot sauce" (50/50 ATF/Acetone) and fill both cylinders and leave them overnight.

I checked them again this morning and the levels had dropped 50%, but that may have been the Acetone dissipating into the atmosphere, so I've been outside twice topping up each cylinder with more acetone, and tomorrow (I had to work back this afternoon to make up for the couple of hours I took off this morning to take my Triumph Rocket III in for new tyres and a service) I'll see if the cylinder block will come off.

I'm heartened by the fact that the other two pistons aren't stuck, and the clutch came out with no "waterline" half way across the clutch basket, unlike the swamp rat's engine a couple of years ago, probably thanks to the sump plug and filter cannister not being in place, and allowing any water to run out. More soon.

[RAFster122s]

Boy, that is some body blows...but it was in an engine you were told was fubared... It certainly has lived up to that thus far.

Imagine that a lot of bikes were lost in flooding in the US and the same is probably true for many areas around the world.  Doesn’t make it easier to see... not that this was a flood bike, but it certainly has seen some rough things.

Another ran when parked,.... at some point in its life, just not the last time it was parked...

Saw a recent thread where a fellow was taking the original brass carb needles and replacing float pins with them. JB Welding the broken float posts as he apparently was pretty rough disassembling things...no patient clearly.
It was a done deal and I just had to shake my head and mutter beneath my breath and move on...Didn’t have the heart to tell him he shot himself in the foot and that he really should start reading old threads and be a sponge for a year while he educated himself through the expensive mistakes of others. I guess he prefers the hard knocks of life’s lessons jumping into the deep end.

[PeWe]

Who could say no to Kelly back then?
Another movie is Cherry 2000 (1987).
The beginning is very nice....

Good luck with those bores, Terry. (Not the movie stars).
+1.0mm bore can be possible?

[Terry in Australia]

Thanks guys, the thing to keep in mind is that none of my builds are "easy". No minty parts bikes that look like they just need a wash to look as good as they did when parked 25 years ago. Where's the challenge in "rebuilding" a bike that just needs a wash, an oil change, and new tyres?

All my builds require a bit of hard work, and I don't mind that at all. Once I get the cylinder block off and split the cases, I'll see what can be recycled, throw the "serviceable" parts in the ultrasonic cleaner, and get them minty clean while I get the cases cleaned/blasted/repaired.

Per, I have some tired 836cc sleeves that I'll bore (on my own boring bar) to 849cc (65.5mm) and install a new Cyclex 849cc kit. My ancient boring bar doesn't like doing more than 10 thou (.25mm) cuts with each pass, so it's easier to take the 65mm sleeves out to 65.5 (2 x .10 thou passes) than taking 61mm bores out 180 thou. (18 passes per cylinder) Plus, it's "Recycling", motorcycle style!

[PeWe]

Another cam than "Rusty"?
I'm sure you have some cams in forgotten boxes ...

KHD seems to be found everywhere provided by various companies.

[Terry in Australia]

Another cam than "Rusty"?
I'm sure you have some cams in forgotten boxes ...

KHD seems to be found everywhere provided by various companies.

Ha ha, I've got an F2 cam in one of my "spare" engines Per, it'll work well with the 849 kit.

[Terry in Australia]

Okay, so it was Friday here in the wonderful land of Oz when I started typing this, but I fell into a drunken coma and then dragged myself off to bed.

Working from home is the greatest, and most flexible way of mixing boring paid work with motorcycle pleasure. I woke up early yesterday, logged on at around 7.15, then by around 9.30 decided it was time to go pick up my Triumph Rocket III from the bike shop after dropping it off on Wednesday for new tyres and a minor service, including flushing and changing out the 14 year old brake fluid.

I hadn't noticed any braking degradation, but when I had the bike stored in a 20 foot shipping container I noticed one summer that there was a line of brake fluid bubbling past the seal in the MC, I guess it must have gotten pretty hot in the shipping container, and the brake fluid expanded in the MC's reservoir? Regardless, it was nice to ride it home with shiny new tyres, fresh oil, a new filter, new coolant and fresh brake fluid. Of course, all this came at a cost and I'm $1300 poorer for it, but that only equates to $100 a year for every year I've owned it, so not too horrible.

Rocket III Friday 16 Apr 2021 5 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Anyhoo, I went back to the ol' virtual saltmine for a few hours, then once I'd done enough for the day, my thoughts turned to the truly horrible K2 engine. I'd had the ATF/Acetone "Hot Sauce" soaking the two heavily rusted bores for a couple of days and still can't decide if it really did anything apart from waste ATF and Acetone, but it might have helped, maybe.

I'd decided that I was gonna remove every bolt and nut holding the engine top and bottom cases together, my thinking was that if the crank was seized in rusted/corroded main bearings, when I started pounding on the pistons, not having the crank locked in place would allow it to turn, thus (hopefully) not causing any additional damage to the cases. First of all was removing the 4 countersunk JIS screws that hold the external bearing plate on. No amount of heat, penetrant or smacking it with my JIS impact screwdriver was gonna shift any of those screws, so I had to drill the heads off.

Terry’s Horrible K2 Engine Autopsy 16 Apr 2021 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Once the cover was off, the nubs were easy to remove, and no threads were damaged. Yay!

Terry’s Horrible K2 Engine Autopsy 16 Apr 2021 1 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

I then went around the engine with my little rattle gun removing all the 6mm screws. I did manage to undo most of the 8mm crank bolts, but a couple were too hard for the little gun, so I had to bring out "Big Bertha", that made short work of those bolts, and the 8mm bolts at the rear of the engine cases.

Terry’s Horrible K2 Engine Autopsy 16 Apr 2021 3 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

So all done, I gave the engine cases a few smacks close to the joint surfaces, but no bueno. No biggie, I could come back to that later, my next task was to smack those pistons into submission, so I grabbed my big hex brass drift and my big ball pein hammer, and started laying into it, unmercifully. After a few big whacks, I could see a gap opening under the cylinder block.

Terry’s Horrible K2 Engine Autopsy 16 Apr 2021 6 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

More whacking gave me a bigger gap.

Terry’s Horrible K2 Engine Autopsy 16 Apr 2021 7 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

As the two centre pistons (in the badly rusted bores) were freed, I removed the cam chain tensioner assembly and slid some blocks of aluminium under the cylinder block to allow me to further smack the two outside pistons down without the two inside ones getting jammed under their sleeves, and to support the block as the pistons went further down and the block came up, I added more aluminium blocks, and this worked well.

Terry’s Horrible K2 Engine Autopsy 16 Apr 2021 9 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

While I'd initially thought that the outside pistons would just about fall out, that wasn't the case, and I had to keep right on smacking away until they were free. But finally, inch by inch, the cylinder block was completely free. Success!

Terry’s Horrible K2 Engine Autopsy 16 Apr 2021 9a by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

So after another swig on my bottle of Ginger Joe, I separated the cases, which by now were very loose, and I flipped the top case over, to take a look inside. I was pleasantly surprised, no rust or corrosion!

And that was enough for one day. as horrible as this bike was in general, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, after some not inconsiderable tunnel works over the next week or two. Good thing is I don't need to worry too much about internal carnage now, some new chains, bearings, camchain adjuster, gaskets, pistons, a rebore, case clean-up and paint, some new bolts and other stuff I've probably forgotten, and it'll be like a new one again. I think I'll celebrate today with a ride.

Terry’s Horrible K2 Engine Autopsy 16 Apr 2021 9f by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr






           

[PeWe]

Good news Terry.
How it look inside is always very interesting.
So crank and rod journals are OK?

What about primary hub cush rubbers? They might be hard and soon falling apart.....

Anyway, fix cases outside with new paint will make it too look good again.

I have heard about wheel paint to work fine. Rattle can silver/grey. I have a cheap rattle can, but not tested yet.
I know since before that wheel paint is durable.

[Terry in Australia]

Thanks Per, I haven't had a close look at anything yet, I'll do that tomorrow, but so far, it all looks pretty good. Hopefully tomorrow the weather will be as nice as it was today, I've just come back from a 160 KM (100 mile) ride on the Rocket III to scrub the new tyres in, run some fresh fuel through it and charge the battery, so tomorrow is bike fixing day.

[Trevor from Warragul]

Any broken fins on the cylinder block?  If not, it's actually a pretty good motor..

[Terry in Australia]

Any broken fins on the cylinder block?  If not, it's actually a pretty good motor..

Thanks Trevor, nope, no busted fins, even the head might be saveable, although there is one broken cam tower stud (my fault....) so I'm pretty happy, although I was looking forwards to pulling one of my dead engines apart for spares, that are probably not needed now.......... (fingers crossed)

[PeWe]

The cam tower stud really broke or its thread in head as usual?

My latest head to my K6 had threads that all looked OK but the use with higher lifting cam and race springs made it easy to go for thread inserts on all 12 holding cam towers.

One stud thread in head was bad which showed itself at stud removal. Half of the alu threads followed the stud. Stud was also slightly bent possible to fix in a vise.

Enough to punch stud sideways to damage the threads.

If anyone have fixed threads before, inspect the threads pairing up with studs. Hole should not go all thru. Only studs have hole going all the way out, these to plug cavities. I glued the ends when studs were in with JB Weld to ensure no oil leak that way.

I have a head were I fixed the bottoms with JB Weld. Thin bottom plug by their 2k clay, filled up with their 2k epoxy which is very runny but very durable when hardened.

Made sure so holes were deep enough for the bolts holding cam towers.

[Terry in Australia]

Sadly Per, my studs would probably have all come out easy if I hadn't set my little Dewalt rattle gun to "Righty tighty", not "Lefty Loosey". All my fault, the stud snapped off at head level. I'll need to drill it out, and either tap a thread, or prepare it for a thread insert. if I ever need to use that head. Over here, the post '72 heads are a dime a dozen, so no biggie. .

[PeWe]

A good head with all fins are worth to save.
Have you checked the guides?

I'm not surprised if ex guides are too worn.
I bought one really good looking stock K6 head from USA.
In valves, guides and seats like from a really low mile bike.
Ex another thing, valves rattled in guides, valves and seats looked really bad. Maybe too thin oil used?
All threads in that head as never been tampered with.
My K2 got it when restored.

[Terry in Australia]

A good head with all fins are worth to save.
Have you checked the guides?

I'm not surprised if ex guides are too worn.
I bought one really good looking stock K6 head from USA.
In valves, guides and seats like from a really low mile bike.
Ex another thing, valves rattled in guides, valves and seats looked really bad. Maybe too thin oil used?
All threads in that head as never been tampered with.
My K2 got it when restored.

Thanks Per, I've probably got 4 or 5 heads to choose from, and a bag of new valve guides that I bought years ago. You're correct, it's always the valve guides that go, but I think I've only ever replaced one or two sets? I even made a special tool for driving them out.

[MauiK3]

How do you plan to clean up all that nasty engine casing corrosion? Looks bad in the photos.
Following

[Terry in Australia]

How do you plan to clean up all that nasty engine casing corrosion? Looks bad in the photos.
Following

Thanks mate, yep, they do look pretty awful, I don't think the corrosion is very deep though, so I'll try scrubbing it with a range of wire brushes, and if it gets too hard I'll get them blasted. I have a wet blasting attachment for my pressure washer somewhere in my garage, and a couple of buckets of blasting grit so might give that a try, if I can find it........

[BenelliSEI]

Terry..... following along as usual. After what you accomplished yesterday, I had to take a nap!

[Terry in Australia]

Thanks John, yes my posts are rather long at times, but it's hard to trim them down after spending my whole day working on these old rockets, God forbid I ever work out how many manhours I spend on these things. OK, so today I resisted the urge to go for a ride on my K2 bitsa, instead, I decided to scrub the horrible K2's engine cases (and guts) to the bone, in anticipation of building a nice running engine for my mate Dion.

I stripped all the guts out of the K2 gearbox including the kick starter gear, then started scrubbing the engine cases with my little toothbrush sized wire brush. this is how it started out:

VHorrible CB750 K2 18 Apr 2021 9b by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

And this is what it looks like now:

Horrible CB750 K2 18 Apr 2021 1 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Not quite perfect yet, but I'm happy that it's looking way better this evening, than it was this morning. All I used was a little "toothbrush" sized wire brush and some degreaser, and some time in the ultrasonic cleaner, and things are looking good.

Horrible CB750 K2 18 Apr 2021 2 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

I wondered if it would be of any benefit to see if my engine cases would fit in my 30 litre ultrasonic cleaner, and was pleasantly surprised that they did, and the 90 deg F temps inside the cleaner helped break down the goop inside the cases, and was great to wash all the sh1t off my poor old hands in the "Simple Green Extreme Aircraft Degreaser" @ 32 deg C.

Horrible CB750 K2 18 Apr 2021 9 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

So this morning everything was black and horrible, but tonight everything is silver and clean. Not quite ready for paint yet, but a good first pass. Tomorrow (or whenever I get a chance) I'll strip the remains of the horrible paint off, and give it some etch primer and some engine enamel on top, and see if I can fix that bottom mount. If not, it'll go back into the frame and no-one will be the wiser.

Horrible CB750 K2 18 Apr 2021 7 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr
 

I had a bit of light left, so I looked around for things to clean, and saw the cylinder block:

Horrible CB750 K2 18 Apr 2021 4 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Horrible CB750 K2 18 Apr 2021 3 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

It wasn't painted black, that's just burned on oil from either a bad head gasket (doubtful) or more likely the rock hard pucks allowing oil to run out all over the front of the engine, and under the bottom case. I wasn't sure if throwing it in the ultrasonic cleaner would do much, but I was really surprised, and I'll post the pics tomorrow of the difference, I reckon you'll be surprised, I was!

[RAFster122s]

I will be surprised if it broke up the corrosion, but you do have a good quality ultrasonic cleaner, makes the harbor freight one a waste of money, but capacity and cost being what it is, for $60-80 depending upon when you bought it it is passable. I won't call HF ultrasonic cleaner a good one but it is OK.
My advice to anyone is to save more money and buy the bigger one,  you can always run it not as full ...you only need to immerse the parts.
Careful you don't mess up a mating surface leaning a part against the edge of top of the tank running it for very long. Aluminum is far softer than the stainless of the tank.