Topic: Front Fork Bolts (male thread) for Wheel Securement

[YoungBlood]

Hi everyone,

New blood here, got a few questions for the good ol' folks. I replaced my fork seals today, it was a success, regardless of that... I ran into a headache with securing the front wheel to the fork's bottom bolts. The bolts themselves--the two threaded bolts on each front fork(I believe they are M8 1.25, not too sure)--had been gummed up with rust and crap. In the final stages of putting the old 10m nuts in place to secure the front wheel's Left and Right axle, the bolts would not fully tighten. In summary, the nuts kept rotating around, I tried to torque them to ~45 ft/pd but I could never get them to "click". I pulled the original nuts off to find that 2/4 nuts were now threadless. I went to HomeDepot and got new M8 1.25 nuts and tried the process all over again with no luck. Anyone here want to help my headache out? Hear are some pictures so we are all straight on wtf is the problem.
ftp://
Merci beaucoup...

Dying young and fast

[YoungBlood]

I hope these pictures help elucidate that my problem is with the front fork bolts that squeeze the front wheel axle down. Trying to solve my problem I purchased these red circled parts off an OEM website. I am trying to make sure I can actually replace the front fork bolts (all four of them). Any help would be appreciated. Is it possible that I am an idiot and these nuts are actually M8 1.0's? Also my nut hex was an 14m.

[steve g]

Hi Youngblood, the caps are directional, thicker to the front, there should be no gap at the front and about 0.5mm at the back once they’re torqued. Torque front bolt first then the rear. If you’re trying to torque to 42 ft/lb that’s probably your problem. I would say 15 to 20 max, I know from experience the nut will strip at 25. Steve

[Little_Phil]

If you have the manual you may have looked at the wrong line. Maybe its not very clear. Where it says "Front fork bolt" it is referring to the bolts (it's in the name) on the lower yoke clamping the stanchions. The "Front axle holder nut" is rated 13.0-16.6Ft lb. You'll have to replace the studs. Maybe file a couple of flats on the to remove. (plus usual heat etc)

[BenelliSEI]

Hi Youngblood, the caps are directional, thicker to the front, there should be no gap at the front and about 0.5mm at the back once they’re torqued. Torque front bolt first then the rear. If you’re trying to torque to 42 ft/lb that’s probably your problem. I would say 15 to 20 max, I know from experience the nut will strip at 25. Steve

+1 to this, except one thing. I always install th caps with the gap to the back too, but apparently, that is WRONG. Check the factory manual. Gap to the FRONT.

[Alan F.]

See below:

[StockRider]

Oh man, the debate is back. I have my front wheel off for brake and tire work. This issue has been kicked around in all corners of this forum.

I was all settled on following the advice from this 2009 thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,55545.msg598172.html#msg598172

[slikwilli420]

Gap toward the back, there is even and arrow on the cap, at least on early GL fork caps. For the M8 studs, I torque to 13lb/ft.

[YoungBlood]

Hi everyone, thanks for pointing this out to me! I now see that I got confuddled by thinking the torque specs for the front fork bolts were for the front fork nuts. Thanks Little_Phil, I'll be sure to look over things more accurately. I have a Haynes manual in the mail. As to the debate war, I'm going to put the gap in the rear... makes sense if there is an arrow and a Honda Bulletin post.

Changing the oil, throttle cables, and hopefully getting the nuts on at the correct 15 ft/lb torque range. If I'm lucky... I didn't strip the bastards.

Best!

-Trevor

[MauiK3]

Get Hondaman's book, it's going to save you a lot of heartache and money.

[754]

They are not bolts, they are studs.
 Double nut the studs to remove them.. if they need removal..looked pretty good in the pic..

[bryanj]

Forget the Haynes, download a genuine Honda one. If not on this site look on on the UK one

[YoungBlood]

Well having a really hard time with these nuts. On the driver's right side, the nuts are stuck and are pulling the studs out with them. On the left, one nut is off, but the other is spinning freely and not budging down. I've been messing with the nut for about thirty minutes with PB blaster, trying to pry the nut down with vice-grips and flat head. Any ideas?

[PeWe]

Measure the front axle holder. Its thicker (higher) on one side, this side to front.
Tighten in right order so front will be tighten without gap.

Next, it is vital to be aware of the  normal tightening torques to use on fasteners. M6, M8 are very common on the bike.
(Bolt & nuts common sense)
Grade 8.8
M5= 5Nm
M6= max 9Nm, covers 5-7.5Nm
M8 = I guess 15Nm-20Nm depending on which bolt or stud.

Thead lenght in aluminium very important. Not too short.

Tougher fasteners grade 10.9 or 12.9 handle higher torque, aluminium still the weak point.

https://www.convertunits.com/from/newton+meters/to/foot+pounds



When threads are in aluminium threads are weaker than steel.

[madmtnmotors]

Well having a really hard time with these nuts. On the driver's right side, the nuts are stuck and are pulling the studs out with them. On the left, one nut is off, but the other is spinning freely and not budging down. I've been messing with the nut for about thirty minutes with PB blaster, trying to pry the nut down with vice-grips and flat head. Any ideas?

https://www.amazon.com/Linkhood-Splitter-Cracker-Pressure-Extractor/dp/B085NYQJD7/ref=sr_1_49_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=Nut+splitter&qid=1618251804&sr=8-49-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFHNkpWWFZTVTlUTzQmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA4MzUzMjYxWjZGOVRIMVJDQjYyJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA4MjExNTkyRTc2RlNPU1VCQVI1JndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmX25leHQmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl

[754]

You can carefully  grind them till you see blue lines by the threads, stopthere, then the other side.. hold with vise grips . Then they soud come ofv or break in two.. check studs to see if threads deformed.

[BenelliSEI]

FYI..... Here’s what was said by Mark P. Had to change my ways.......

I questioned Mark, HondaMan, about this around 4 years ago.  Below is what he emailed me.... I thought it was fascinating:

"Yes, the gap should be to the front. I've seen many manuals with the things reversed in the pictures, too, as well as on a lot of bikes. I always switched them when they came through my arena, though. The stress "lift" from the bump travel is designed to go up the rear edge of the fork tube, which should have the solid mount."
 
"I got this straight from a Honda suspension engineer in 1973 or 1974 in Illinois. He was helping us with the Production roadracing stuff, and was quite sure to point out to us that we had them both ways on the 4 different bikes we were using that day. We changed them all to the rear, at his direction. On some bikes (I think it was the CB350 twins), the front studs were shorter than the rear, which was further indication of what he was pointing out to us."
 
"When I ran the shape of the structure through a stress program (it was an early PC-based finite-element analysis program we used in the oilfield), it showed the shear stresses concentrated at the end-of-thread of the front stud when the gap was in the back, and vice-versa. Since the entire body of the fork tube is available to suppress a rearward-moving bump stress, it makes sense that the Honda guy wanted that extra strength "in the front" of the fork. The front stud has to bear both the initial impact and the rearward shear if it is tight, without gap. The program showed this load to be split between front and rear when the rear had no gap."
 
"Although, I've never seen one break in real life..."
 
Mark
______________

[Alan F.]

Forget the Haynes, download a genuine Honda one. If not on this site look on on the UK one

Get Hondaman's book, it's going to save you a lot of heartache and money.

Love this forum above all others from the UK to the middle of the Pacific, wisdom is wisdom when we all speak Honda as a common language.

I'll stop posting that bulletin from 1970 without citing Mark's experience, thank you.

[BenelliSEI]

Forget the Haynes, download a genuine Honda one. If not on this site look on on the UK one

Get Hondaman's book, it's going to save you a lot of heartache and money.

Love this forum above all others from the UK to the middle of the Pacific, wisdom is wisdom when we all speak Honda as a common language.

I'll stop posting that bulletin from 1970 without citing Mark's experience, thank you.

Alan..... I have that bulletin in my three ring binder too! I also have to say the clamps look odd with the gap at the front. But I’ve been installing them “backwards” since I Joined this forum. No ill effects, so far.

[seanbarney41]

I like to put one cap with gap to the front and one with gap to the back just because I know that will piss everyone off.

[caluser2000]

I like to put one cap with gap to the front and one with gap to the back just because I know that will piss everyone off.

Yeah anororaks are everywhere.

I don't care as long as the axle is firmly secured it doesn't matter at all  at all. I never use a torque wrench on on these at all and prefer to use nylons if I have them on hand.

[BenelliSEI]

I like to put one cap with gap to the front and one with gap to the back just because I know that will piss everyone off.

I think I will do this too (and promise to never bring it up again)!