Author Topic: Oil pressure problems, now rebuild question  (Read 1071 times)

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Offline Trav-i

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Oil pressure problems, now rebuild question
« on: April 19, 2021, 06:23:13 PM »
Hey all,

As the title says it all my bike has developed new oil pressure issues.  I noticed it today while it was idling and the oil pressure gauge was reading zero, I checked the oil level and it was very low in the tank.  Just to check operation I started the bike again and revved the throttle which caused the oil pressure to rise to normal, as soon as I let the throttle go it dropped off to zero again.  I checked the level in the tank which was still low (I know the level was right after I rebuilt the engine), so I topped it off with a small amount of oil and it started to show pressure at idle.  I took it on a 20 mile round trip to the store and all seemed well, while riding it showed 60 plus PSI.  When I pulled in the garage I looked at the idle pressure and it showed zero again.  The level in the oil tank was a lot higher than when I left.

What is going on?  I think it's an issue with the relief valve or stopper valve, as it seems to be leaking down from the tank into the engine and not returning back up.  If someone else has another idea I'm all ears, I never turn down another view point.

As always thanks to everyone.

Travis
« Last Edit: May 06, 2021, 02:18:48 PM by Trav-i »
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I don't know a lot about anything, but I know a little about practically everthing. 

If your not first, your last - Ricky Bobby

1992 GL1500 Interstate

73 CB750 Bobber Project (Always an on going project) Sold
71 CL350 Scrambler Project (Done and riding it) Sold
78 CB750 F3 Super Sport with F 0 engine (Current project)

Offline bryanj

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Offline HondaMan

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Hey all,

As the title says it all my bike has developed new oil pressure issues.  I noticed it today while it was idling and the oil pressure gauge was reading zero, I checked the oil level and it was very low in the tank.  Just to check operation I started the bike again and revved the throttle which caused the oil pressure to rise to normal, as soon as I let the throttle go it dropped off to zero again.  I checked the level in the tank which was still low (I know the level was right after I rebuilt the engine), so I topped it off with a small amount of oil and it started to show pressure at idle.  I took it on a 20 mile round trip to the store and all seemed well, while riding it showed 60 plus PSI.  When I pulled in the garage I looked at the idle pressure and it showed zero again.  The level in the oil tank was a lot higher than when I left.

What is going on?  I think it's an issue with the relief valve or stopper valve, as it seems to be leaking down from the tank into the engine and not returning back up.  If someone else has another idea I'm all ears, I never turn down another view point.

As always thanks to everyone.

Travis

You're on the money, Trav: the check valve seal plug in the oil pump is likely hard, and leaking. This drains the oil into the crankcase when the bike is sitting (most of it when the bike was hot), so it's all sitting down there now. Adding much more will soon cause the tank to overflow, making a bigger mess, when the engine is run enough to pump most of it back up.

You can get the oil pump "refurbish" kits at places like eBay. It is a rubber plug with a spring. You'll have to drain everything (tank and crankcase) and pull off the pan to get to the pump. The rubber plug is in the long 'tunnel' on the front of the pump. When you take it apart, make sure the little aluminum piston into which this 'plug' fits can slide smoothly along inside the tunnel. Once in a while I get one where the tunnel is a little warped, which makes the piston stick open, draining the tank even with the new seal plug installed!

If you are adventurous, you can get the shaft oil seal for the inside of the pump, too. It is hard now, and leaks some oil between the 2 chambers, losing efficiency. It's tricky to replace, as the old one will simply lose its rubber when you try to remove it, leaving the ring still in place: I drill a tiny (#35-ish drill in a pin vise) hole alongside the ring so I can get a sharp pick in there and bend the edge of the ring inward to nab it with pliers and pull it out. The new one goes in the same way.

Look at the GL1000 Honda Gold Wing Oil Pump diagram to find the shaft seal from Honda: it is a custom seal. They still make them: I just bought 6 more.
It's shown here:
https://shop.hondabikes.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=3542437&category=Motorcycles&make=Honda&year=1977&fveh=1698042
Their partnumber is 91208-MN1-771
« Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 06:14:56 PM by HondaMan »
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Offline Trav-i

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Thanks for the confirmation Mark.  I figured it was that, just wanted some validation.  I have already ordered a kit from Ebay and it looks to actually have the shaft seal included.  Now it's time to wait till it comes in.  Got a few other projects to take care of at the moment.
Forum member #9962

I don't know a lot about anything, but I know a little about practically everthing. 

If your not first, your last - Ricky Bobby

1992 GL1500 Interstate

73 CB750 Bobber Project (Always an on going project) Sold
71 CL350 Scrambler Project (Done and riding it) Sold
78 CB750 F3 Super Sport with F 0 engine (Current project)

Offline HondaMan

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Thanks for the confirmation Mark.  I figured it was that, just wanted some validation.  I have already ordered a kit from Ebay and it looks to actually have the shaft seal included.  Now it's time to wait till it comes in.  Got a few other projects to take care of at the moment.

I bought a couple of those eBay kits some 4 years ago: the shaft seal was not correct. It is coated on both sides of the retaining ring with rubber, so it will either not fit in, or will come loose over time. The OEM seal is a metal outer ring with the seal bonded to the inside. I wrecked all the shaft seals in the kits just trying to install one of them in one of my [many] spare oil pumps! Then I tried the Honda seal and it tapped right in. I think I was using a 7mm 1/4" drive long socket for the driver.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 06:16:03 PM by HondaMan »
See SOHC4shop.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book
Link to My CB500/CB550 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?sortBy=RELEVANCE&page=1&q=my+cb550+book&pageSize=10&adult_audience_rating=00
Link to website: https://sohc4shop.com/  (Note: no longer at www.SOHC4shop.com, moved off WWW. in 2024).

Offline Trav-i

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Re: Oil pressure problems, now rebuild question
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2021, 02:25:02 PM »
Ok got a quick question for everyone,

I have rebuilt my oil pump, including the stopper and spring, relief spring, all o-rings and that *&%$#ing shaft seal.  As I put it back together I kept checking that the shaft rotated freely which it did.  I put the new o-rings in the covers then closed it up and as the screws got tight the pump stopped turning.  I back the screws off and it moved again.  I snugged the screws several times with the same result. 

What am I missing?  Those screws were tight as all get out when I took it apart and it moved freely.

I always appreciate everyone's input.  I hope it is just something simple.

Travis
Forum member #9962

I don't know a lot about anything, but I know a little about practically everthing. 

If your not first, your last - Ricky Bobby

1992 GL1500 Interstate

73 CB750 Bobber Project (Always an on going project) Sold
71 CL350 Scrambler Project (Done and riding it) Sold
78 CB750 F3 Super Sport with F 0 engine (Current project)

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Oil pressure problems, now rebuild question
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2021, 06:23:25 PM »
It is simple, but tricky to figure out. There are index marks on the rotors, whcih should be aligned on both sides when the halves are assembled. Make sure there is a little oil film in these rotors when assembling, too. Then, with all of them aligned, lightly close the screws and rotate the gear to see if it 'feels' smooth, then keep turning it while you sngu the screws closed. I've had to do this several times in some cases, but eventually the pins in the shaft settlie into their happy position (sounds Japanese?) as the cover is tightened, and it will spin again.

Sometimes I have screwed them together once and it worked!

The hardest part now: getting oil back into the dry pump. It's messy, so plan on that: turn the pump (sans the lower plate, do this, if you can, before putting the bottom on for ease, but otherwise it still works, just clumsy) upside-down in the oil and turn ti until th ebubbles stop, both directions. It WILL harbor a bubble in both sides, and if it is bigger than a certain size (that you can see thru the aluminum?) the pump will NOT prime when you put it back into the engine with the tank filled. Been there, sadly too often: now I immerse the pump and turn till the bubbles quit, then turn it upright and go drink some tea, or something. Then I come back, invert it and do it some more. Then I screw the bottom back on, using a NEW paper gasket: that silly thing is real important!
See SOHC4shop.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book
Link to My CB500/CB550 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?sortBy=RELEVANCE&page=1&q=my+cb550+book&pageSize=10&adult_audience_rating=00
Link to website: https://sohc4shop.com/  (Note: no longer at www.SOHC4shop.com, moved off WWW. in 2024).