Topic: Clutch installation issue

[Bankerdanny]

I installed a new clutch on my 750 today, including new Barnett springs. It seemed to go back together fine, but even when adjusted per spec the release lever moves easily and doesn't seem to do anything.

I watched a couple YouTube videos about clutch replacement (including Hack A Week's) and in both videos the lift plate bolts engaged easily with the plate set in place. On my bike that was not the case, I had to work up a system to partially compress the springs to get the bolts to start. I noticed with the plate bolts fully tightened the center bearing doesn't spin.

I can pull it apart again. I am sure I have the correct number of plates in the clutch, but I can double check.

What is everyone else's experience with replacing the clutch. Were you able to bolt the lifter plate back in without compressing it a little first? Should the bearing that the nose of the lifter arm runs in spin freely with the lifter plate bolted in?

Thanks

[goodtryer]

Don't know about the bearing spinning but on mine I was able to start the bolts on the plate without compressing the springs.

[madmtnmotors]

Are you sure the inner and outer hubs are "clocked" correctly" If they are 90 degrees out then the splines on the inner hub don't mesh with the notches on the inner flange on the outer hub and the splines on the outer hub won't mesh with the notches on the outer flange of the inner hub. Of course this would likely cause other issues and might even prevent installation of the clutch cover as well.

Just a thought, keep us posted.

[Kevin D]

Are you sure the inner and outer hubs are "clocked" correctly" If they are 90 degrees out then the splines on the inner hub don't mesh with the notches on the inner flange on the outer hub. Of course this would likely cause other issues and might even prevent installation of the clutch cover as well.

Just a thought, keep us posted.

+1
 I match marked the splined inner and outer pieces to keep this from happening. You can only see the one match mark in this photo, about 9 o’clock.

Sorry for this flipped photo… match mark at 12… opposite match mark not visible, it’s under the lifter plate.

[Bankerdanny]

Thanks for the replies.

I think they are lined up correctly. The inner and outer hubs seem to be correctly seated and the hub does rotate. I am going to take it apart again at lunch time and inspect to make sure there is no damage and reinstall. Hopefully 3rd time is the charm.

[PeWe]

I could use stock bolts with help of 2 longer bolt I hold the pack together with. When  2 stock bolts have been threaded a few turns, away with the other longer in with the correct stock.
I have mm bolt in plenty of sizes since they followed me home from my job in the 80's All nice allen heads my engknes got after finally removed the vad JIS. Nsnh had to get the head drilled off!

Here mm land in n my garage, M4-M8 in many sizes, especially M6. Plus various M10, M12.
I have refilled my stock from eBay tha last years.

[Bankerdanny]

3rd time was the charm. I solved the mystery of why the release plate was so hard to get on and also think I have solved the overall issue, although I need to take it for a test ride to confirm.

The overall issue and the problem starting the bolts that hold in the lifter plate are probably related. I completely disassembled the clutch again and then reassembled. During disassembly I compared the new Barnett springs to the stockers. As you can see below, the Barnetts are quite a bit taller. I also paid very careful attention to make sure that the pressure plate part of the clutch was completely seated and I went back to the stock springs, although that might not have been necessary. If there appears to be any slippage I will swap out the springs later.

I think that it was not and so when I was tightening the release plate it was too tight, which was why the throw out bearing wasn't spinning free. This time when the 4 lifter plate nuts bottomed the bearing still spun.

I got everything together and was able to adjust everything and have a good long clutch pull.

I did buy a new, shorter Motion Pro cable from 4into1, but it is an inch or so too short, so the old cable will have to suffice. I gave the cover a nice polish yesterday, so it looks nice and pretty. I still need to remove and polish the alternator cover and the small cover over the front sprocket and then all the outer covers and valve cover will be done.

Later tonight I will replace the two cover screws with stripped heads and take it for a ride.

[Bankerdanny]

Now it won't start. I have spark and I should have fuel. I have to renew my plate, once I'm done I'll sort it and go for a test ride

[HondaMan]

3rd time was the charm. I solved the mystery of why the release plate was so hard to get on and also think I have solved the overall issue, although I need to take it for a test ride to confirm.

The overall issue and the problem starting the bolts that hold in the lifter plate are probably related. I completely disassembled the clutch again and then reassembled. During disassembly I compared the new Barnett springs to the stockers. As you can see below, the Barnetts are quite a bit taller. I also paid very careful attention to make sure that the pressure plate part of the clutch was completely seated and I went back to the stock springs, although that might not have been necessary. If there appears to be any slippage I will swap out the springs later.

I think that it was not and so when I was tightening the release plate it was too tight, which was why the throw out bearing wasn't spinning free. This time when the 4 lifter plate nuts bottomed the bearing still spun.

I got everything together and was able to adjust everything and have a good long clutch pull.

I did buy a new, shorter Motion Pro cable from 4into1, but it is an inch or so too short, so the old cable will have to suffice. I gave the cover a nice polish yesterday, so it looks nice and pretty. I still need to remove and polish the alternator cover and the small cover over the front sprocket and then all the outer covers and valve cover will be done.

Later tonight I will replace the two cover screws with stripped heads and take it for a ride.

Back when dirt was young (me too), we installed the Barnetts with the OEM springs. This was to prevent breakage of the spring bosses, which the Barnett springs pulled to the max. The guys who dragraced (11000 RPM stuff) reported they could get them to slip when during their hard starts at the line, but no one else ever complained.

[PeWe]

My K6 has an F2 clutch with the even harder Barnett springs for CB550 and smaller.
The  aluminium part where threads are for the 4 bolts  should have a stronger version with thicker towers. The outer plate with ballbearing is a billet version.

I bought K6 clutch springs from VintageCB750 9 years ago. But they were the shorter version with hard short action.
Barnett 56lbs CB750 version felt better. I replaced those with the harder 66lbs version for CB550 when increasing the displacement.
Exercise for clutch hand!

I used washers under springs too. I think they were same as used in 1969 clutches. I got them in a clutch kit with +1 disc back in the 80's.

When changing to F2 clutch no need of washers since that pack is tighter. It use same alu pressure plate with 4 towers as the earlier despite the thicker package so it will get harder spring pressure by default using same springs.

Here that thread where I updated the clutch, last step F2 clutch wich was a good upgrade. No more rattle at clutching taking offs and leaning the bike making a turn on the street.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,165531.msg1916669.html#msg1916669

[Bankerdanny]

Back when dirt was young (me too), we installed the Barnetts with the OEM springs. This was to prevent breakage of the spring bosses, which the Barnett springs pulled to the max. The guys who dragraced (11000 RPM stuff) reported they could get them to slip when during their hard starts at the line, but no one else ever complained.

I still had a couple instances during Saturday's ride when I pulled in the clutch and felt something pop and the clutch cable went completely slack but the clutch stayed disengaged. This seems to happen when I pull hard on the lever for a fast shift.

After some discussions with Eric (Ekpent) and Sean Barney I think that the problem is in the release arm assembly on the clutch cover. The 3 bearings that transfer the lever action to pushing on the release plate are rotating out of their recesses and the clutch gets stuck for a time in the released position, eventually the rotation of the assembly gets them to pop back into place and the clutch works properly again.

The issue could just be a weak return spring on the release arm, or it could be wear on the bearings or the two plates with the ramps the act on the release plate. When I inspected them during the clutch replacement I didn't see any excessive wear, but perhaps the bearings have flat spots I didn't see an just the 3 bearing piece needs replacing.

[bryanj]

Much more likely you havent got the adjustment quiet right

[PeWe]

Much more likely you havent got the adjustment quiet right

+1
The mechanism must be in proper position with the 3 balls before that. I think possible if removing the nut fiddle it right without taking off the cover.

[Bankerdanny]

Much more likely you havent got the adjustment quiet right

+1
The mechanism must be in proper position with the 3 balls before that. I think possible if removing the nut fiddle it right without taking off the cover.

Both the factory manual and Mark's book are annoyingly silent on the last step of the new clutch process, the reinstallation of the mechanism in the clutch cover that the cable moves. The adjustment process in the manual is really aimed at periodic maintenance, not starting from scratch.

I think I put everything back together correctly. The clutch arm was set up so that the balls were fully seated in the dents in the two plates. Then when it was back together I screwed in the adjustment screw until it made contact with the release plate then backed it off 1/4 turn. Then I adjusted the cable to the appropriate level of slack.

[PeWe]

I had same issue  6-7 years ago.
The arm suddenly sat loose. I had no clutch when riding home avoiding all red lights I knew.
The entire device were not properly pushed all the way in from inside.
I tighten the screw until it stops before pushing the clutch. Then back 1/2 turn, lock with nut.
I had clutch slip once when only backing 1/4 turn.