Topic: *please help* clutch issue

[Bduck72750k]

I understand this is a hot topic thats been discussed; complete restore/mod to cafe. Complete engine rebuild, bore to std bore, new pistons etc, clutch fibre discs were within spec and i soaked the fibre discs overnight yesterday and have my steel plates all with the sharp edge facing inqard as Hondaman recommends. I have what appears as all 1974 to match the motor and frame. Hub is at the correct 90 degrees to meshappropriately, and the hub was also drilled per Hondaman in his book. Running 20w50 (castrol conventional) oil and bike has been running with carbs all synchronized well with Carbtune pro. Clutch has been adjusted with great feel at lever, and all my bearing, bushinsc springs etc have been replaced with OEM on the bike.

My problem is the clutch doesnt disengage, and i have briefly started it in a higher gear thinking maybe its sticking. Im no mechanic, but my only theory is the pressure plate seems too depressed maybe? Is it supposed to be flush with the exterior hub and allow springs to compress. If thats the case maybe new springs should resolve issue?

All bolts were tightened to 80inch-lbs.

[ekpent]

 Can't tell much from the pic but there are some splines that need to be aligned properly so everything seats together correctly.

[Bduck72750k]

I can pull clutch back out to show but the splines are lined up on the clutch center and clutch pressure plate, and there are no gaps when seated with all the discs in place. I have not actually rode the bike yet, rather have just run the bike since the rebuild. Im a bit nervous to pop it in gesr and start it in fear ill break something if its not the clutch sticking. Ive tried pulling the lever in and rocking it back and forth with it off and doesnt seem to change anything.

[steve g]

I had a similar issue where I’d put the clutch back in, PO had removed for some reason and engine hadn’t run for 5 years. Didn’t matter what I did, and I pulled the clutch out a couple of times to check everything, when I put it in gear the clutch wouldn’t disengage and the back wheel was locked in gear.  I was pulling my hair out and assumed something was wrong with the old clutch so ordered a new one and carried on with the build. Along came the day for its first start so I thought I would start it and make sure it ran but I would then change the clutch. Started, warmed her up a bit and then thought I’ll try and put her in gear assuming it would just stall as soon as I put in 1st, bingo, clutch worked fine. Spinning engine and hot oil I guess. Steve

[steve g]

And btw I still have the issue, if the engines not running and I put it in first, pull the clutch in the back wheel is locked in gear. Start her up issue goes away. Steve

[ekpent]

 Clutch plates can stick together a little over a long winter or if a bike has hibernated for a long time. When working on a new project with stuck plates I tie the clutch handle back to the grip when I know I'm getting close to a first start-up and as mentioned nice clean hot oil usually does the trick and if not some gentle rocking in a higher gear with hot oil and engine off.
  Sounds like though the poster is putting together a nice fresh clean clutch pack and having his problem.

[Bduck72750k]

I had a similar issue where I’d put the clutch back in, PO had removed for some reason and engine hadn’t run for 5 years. Didn’t matter what I did, and I pulled the clutch out a couple of times to check everything, when I put it in gear the clutch wouldn’t disengage and the back wheel was locked in gear.  I was pulling my hair out and assumed something was wrong with the old clutch so ordered a new one and carried on with the build. Along came the day for its first start so I thought I would start it and make sure it ran but I would then change the clutch. Started, warmed her up a bit and then thought I’ll try and put her in gear assuming it would just stall as soon as I put in 1st, bingo, clutch worked fine. Spinning engine and hot oil I guess. Steve

So did you run it in Neutral and once warm pop it into gesr with a depressed lever? Also i am running Castrol 20w50 conventional and even had considered warming oil dropping it and swapping it. I have attempted putting it in 4th to 5th gear and rocking it but wont budge. Im also thinking will it work if i get the rear wheel in the air and pop it into gear when running? Thanks for all the replies!

[steve g]

Yes I started her in neutral and was playing around with idle for a while, probably turned off and started again a couple of times, engine was hot. Then I just pulled the clutch in and to my surprise it went straight into first no problem. I had tried the rocking in gear and cable tying the clutch lever for 24 hours tricks but nothing made a difference, back wheel locked solid. I rode the bike at the weekend and went down to the garage just now and put it in first with the engine not running, clutch pulled in and back wheels locked, so that was 3 days ago I rode it. With mine unless the engines running, with maybe a one minute warm up, the clutch won’t disengage. Try it, the worst that will happen is it stalls as soon as you try and put it in gear, or you’ll get a crunching noise and can’t get it in gear. Or maybe like mine it just needs to be running. Steve

[Bduck72750k]

Yes I started her in neutral and was playing around with idle for a while, probably turned off and started again a couple of times, engine was hot. Then I just pulled the clutch in and to my surprise it went straight into first no problem. I had tried the rocking in gear and cable tying the clutch lever for 24 hours tricks but nothing made a difference, back wheel locked solid. I rode the bike at the weekend and went down to the garage just now and put it in first with the engine not running, clutch pulled in and back wheels locked, so that was 3 days ago I rode it. With mine unless the engines running, with maybe a one minute warm up, the clutch won’t disengage. Try it, the worst that will happen is it stalls as soon as you try and put it in gear, or you’ll get a crunching noise and can’t get it in gear. Or maybe like mine it just needs to be running. Steve

I will be by the garage tomorrow eve to try this out. Gives me a boost of confidence for sure! Will let you know how it goes!

[steve g]

Good luck. I’ve not come across anyone having the same issue as me where the clutch only works when it’s running, usually plates are stuck and once they’ve been unstuck everything’s fine. If you can I would try and cable tie the clutch lever back for say 12 hours, gets everything loosened up, then start it and warm her up, and try putting in gear. I’d just leave the cable tie on for the first attempt, cover the front brake just in case it lurches. Steve

[Bduck72750k]

Good luck. I’ve not come across anyone having the same issue as me where the clutch only works when it’s running, usually plates are stuck and once they’ve been unstuck everything’s fine. If you can I would try and cable tie the clutch lever back for say 12 hours, gets everything loosened up, then start it and warm her up, and try putting in gear. I’d just leave the cable tie on for the first attempt, cover the front brake just in case it lurches. Steve

So i got the bike nice and hot and ended up having it stall three times. I didnt depress the lever overnight so i guess i could try that. My new clutch fibre plates and steel plates 7/6 come in a couple days. Ill prob replace them and see if it changes anything. Is there any other component it could be?

[Bduck72750k]

When i have the clutch apart tomorrow i will take pictures of my components and basket so you can see. But everything appears as it should for a K4. Would love to hear Hondamans input!

[scottly]

Clutch has been adjusted with great feel at lever,

I suspect you haven't properly adjusted the clutch. Did you start with the lever on the clutch cover?

[Bduck72750k]

Clutch has been adjusted with great feel at lever,

I suspect you haven't properly adjusted the clutch. Did you start with the lever on the clutch cover?

After much research, i am thinking that me not putting the thick splined washer in has something to do with it….?🤔

[scottly]

All bets are off if you have parts leftover after refurbishing the clutch.

[CaptFatCat]

The pic looks like a clutch plate missing because there sure is a lot of room left in that basket.

[Bduck72750k]

Here are pictures; the large washer creates too much space and causes clutch pack to be spaced.

[Bduck72750k]

More

[Bduck72750k]

And more

[Bduck72750k]

Clutch pack

[Bduck72750k]

Better pictures

[ekpent]

 Does this picture from an official Honda shop manual help ?

[Bduck72750k]

Does this picture from an official Honda shop manual help ?

Yes and no. My problem is that when i put it all together i dont have enough on the adjustment screw so the nut has like maybe a thread to hold it on. I ordered the thin washer (splined) and will try that too. It i used the washer id almost need the shaft to stick out more to help the hub sit flush

[CaptFatCat]

Do the bearings line up on part 9 and part 6? http://www.hondachopper.com/engine/diagrams/images/clutchcover.diagram.gif

[Bduck72750k]

Yup! And when it is adjusted without that washer in it the lever has great lever feel and actuates correctly which is why im scratching my head.