Topic: Terry's Boneyard Barn find Budget Suzuki T500 Reanimation.

[Terry in Australia]

My name is Terry, and I love 2 strokes. No, this isn't a new thing, my earliest bikes were a Yamaha GT50B and a BSA Bantam, and along my journey I've owned numerous other 2 strokes. It has been a long time between drinks though, apart from my twin engined motorised bicycle, I haven't owned a 2 stroke bike in probably 40 years, or more? I think my last one was a Yamaha DT250, which was a great city commuter when I lived in Sydney for a couple of years. Fast forward to last year, and I bought a 1973 Yamaha RT3 360 which was a "Leg Breaker" before I fixed the ignition timing and it's now a sweet starter. (or at least, it was before I parked it and forgot about it.

I was looking for some better tins for it when I met a guy called Dion, who had the Suzuki T350 that had been laying in a field for almost 50 years. I bought it and immediately wished I hadn't, when I saw how horrible it was, but by the time it arrived I'd ordered some good/expensive parts for it, so I couldn't back out, I pushed forward and although I could only use a few parts from the original bike, I had some good guys here (RB550) and on Ebay, Gumtree (like Craigslist) and elsewhere who sold me everything I needed to make it look and run like the bike I wanted. It's not quite finished, but I have had a sneaky ride on it, and was immediately impressed with how quick it is.

T350 Tuesday 29 Jun 2021 5 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Then Eric and a couple of other guys started posting pics of their T500's, and I got a bad case of T500 envy. To be fair, I've wanted a T500 since riding my mate Pete's T500 Cobra in 1978. It was loud, obnoxious and smoked like a train, but it was also relatively light, and scary fast. Maybe not the same top end speed as a CB750, but compared to a 500cc four stroke of the era, very quick indeed. The trouble is that anything old and in good condtion is super expensive here, not many T500's have been imported into Oz like CB750's, Z1's etc, but the one I saw on Ebay Oz, which was pretty rough up close was $12000 AUD (Around $9K USD) and even one that was semi-restored but in a hundred pieces was bidded up to $8K and didn't make reserve.

Then I was trawling thru Ebay a couple of weeks ago, and I spotted an auction for a T500 in bits 900 miles away, with a spare frame, for just over 1000 bucks, so I bid on it. Surprisingly there wasn't much interest in it, so I won it for $1230.00 AUD. ($920 USD? around there anyway) Andrew, the seller turned out to be a nice old guy, and he gave me the contact details for a guy who'd transported his DOHC Honda 750 with sidecar, and packed up everything in tubs to keep everything together. Andrew is doing what I'll be doing in years to come, selling off all his surplus bikes and parts so he can afford to restore the 1969(?) Norton Commando that he bought new.

Andrew bought the T500 in bits from a bone yard in Penrith in 1992 with the intention of restoring it, but never got around to it. Good thing he did though, as he kept the bits in his garage (not leaning against a shed outside) so most of the parts are re-usable once they've been thoroughly cleaned. Everything was delivered last night, so I'm doing a "Loaves and fishes" The tank doesn't look too bad, the seat has a good base and foam, most of the chrome is rusty, but should come up reasonably presentable after a dip in the phosphoric acid bath, and Andrew (I presume) tipped clean oil into the bottom cases so the crank isn't seized, and quite possibly the crank seals will be fine. (But I've ordered new seals if it's not) While it looks horrible, there are a lot of good parts

Terry’s T500 6 Aug 2021 1 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Terry’s T500 6 Aug 2021 2 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

I need to get outside and strip all of the bits that are attached to the frames, and get the best frame ready to be blasted so that if we get some half decent weather here (last few weeks of winter) I can paint it. I better go do that, more later.

Terry’s T500 6 Aug 2021 6 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

       

[Alan F.]

Congrats on another to tick off your list Uncle Terry, I'll be along for the read but apart from positive energies likely won't have much to add.

I can't help but wonder what other bikes are on that bucket list?

I spotted the phosphoric acid solution the other day at Home Labrynth and I'm wondering about the container you soak parts in, what's it made of specifically? I wonder if it'll matter much?

[ekpent]

 Congrats on the 500 Terry,sounds like it will be kind of a rare bird down there. Here is some stuff to read over a ginger beer sometime. One link is a poor man's fix for the transmission inside the cases when you split them. Be neat if you could find the factory 'bridge' part that they used for a retrofit on 4 and 5th gear repairs. Another link is some fun service bulletins that were posted over the years on various Suzuki two strokes
Cheapie gearbox mod - https://ozebook.com/suzi/2017/10/13/suzuki-t500-gearbox-oil-level-modification/
Little more detail from the mothership - http://www.ozebook.com/compendium/techbuls/SerBulletin%20T%20Index%20plus%201-5.pdf
  Some fun general bulletins - http://www.ozebook.com/compendium/techbuls/

[Zunspec]

Hi Terry,

The T500 is one of those underrated bikes.  They handle well (with decent shocks), front forks are under sprung and the damping is basic. The front 2 LS brake can be....... challenging as a stopper.  Accurately set-up it's passable though.  Most parts are interchangeable across all years. Exceptions being the GT500 has PEI ign. (change to Timing side crank web and slight mod to cases) and regular forks and single disc,  ekpent has already posted links to the Ozebook site, run by Murry Bernard (Muzza) a fellow Aus. FULL of info and technical stuff.  There is also the Sundial Suzuki forum, much like this wonderful CB750 resource, but not so busy as it once was http://www.suzuki2strokes.com/forum/index.php?sid=d494ad5fb2b3facebd7894f179bc18d6

Very happy to assist with advice, may be parts etc.

Cheers  Geoff

Mine being featured in Classic Bike magazine a while back.



Cheers  Geoff

[Terry in Australia]

Hey thanks guys, that gearbox oil mod sounds interesting, I couldn't open the pics, so I'll keep looking elsewhere. I may as well strip the engine down and see if everything's OK and see if I can redneck something to stop 5th and 6th gear from self destruction, I might even change the crank seals and get the cases etc vapor blasted. As expected, mine is a mongrel, a 1972 "J" engine and both frames are 1974 "L" models. I couldn't really understand the problem with the swingarm shaft though, I removed both today and couldn't see a problem? 

Anyway, today I stripped both frames completely. I filled a couple more tubs with the parts I removed, and was happy that most of them look like they're still useable. I had a pr1ck of a time removing the steering damper rod, the last 6mm or so of the threaded rod that protrudes past the damper assembly was rusted, and making sure that I didn't break the knob off the shaft, I used heat, a wire brush, WD40 and anything else I could muster to get the shaft to turn without fcuking anything. As it was I had to grind that last 6mm off, so I'll have to remember to not back the damper all the way off, lest the damper assembly falls out on a ride. I might see if I can safety wire it, just in case....

The good thing is that apart from the knackered fork gaiters, the forks appear to be in really good nick. The rusty chrome parts all went into the phosphoric acid bath, to make room I had to remove a CB750 tank that I left in there too long, and the internal rust has now become pinholes. Oh well, it wasn't much of a tank anyway, but the chrome cap looks magnificent. I didn't take a pic as I was too busy shoving rusty chrome T500 parts into the acid. I need to buy a right hand side cylinder and head as there are some busted fins on the ones I have now, which is a shame, because the bores, and even the pistons, look really good.

I'm fascinated at the specs for the T500 compared to the T350, the T500 is around 40 Kg (88 pounds) heavier than the T350, with 44 BHP compared to 39 for the T350, and only a 5 speed box? I can't help but wonder which bike would come out on top in a race with a few corners? I'm assuming that the T500 was designed as more of a tourer than a racer, even though I presume it'd see off say, a CB450, which we all know is a very impressive bike?

Anyway, today's other news is that without trying, I sold my VFR750 today. Adrian, the guy who sold me the K0 frame and parts contacted me out of the blue. He was looking for a Suzuki RGV250 to go racing. I asked him what an RGV250 was worth now, and he said around $18K AUD? Fark! We got talking, and before I knew it, I'd sold him my VFR, for a good price for both of us.

Bottom line is, I would have had to sell it one day, I don't ride it enough, I know Adrian will look after it, it might give me some incentive to put my SP1 back on the road, the money will pay for a slightly better resto of the T500 than I'd initially planned, and it's freed up space at the storage place for my CB750A. The frames are both stripped bare, tomorrow I'll decide which one I use, and get it blasted next week.

Terry’s T500 Saturday 7 Aug 2021 5 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr 

[BenelliSEI]

Congrats on the Sale. My last two went to guys that really wanted them and will take care. They also paid fair money. Nice outcome.

[Terry in Australia]

Thanks John, it's one of those things. I didn't want to sell it to just anybody, but I know Adrian will love it, and while I could have asked for more money, I've got my investment from 2016 back, plus a fat margin, so it's a win/win.

[simon#42]

great i have been looking forward to this build  .   regarding the difference in performance between the 350 and 500 the hp figures dont tell the whole story . the 350 feels much more racy to ride , much more peaky but great fun and pretty fast . the 500 on the other hand has a bloody huge heavy crankshaft  , makes a lot more torque and makes its power more progressively . luckily you have both !   back in the 70s i raced a few tr500s ( the race version of the t500 ) an air cooled one . a water cooled one  and a very strange single carbed water cooled one made over here  .

[ekpent]

 I noticed Zunspec had a link to Paul Miller in his article.That guy has a ton of Suzuki stuff. Some have reported problems but its hard to make everybody happy all of the time.  http://www.millersvintage.com/

[Zunspec]

I noticed Zunspec had a link to Paul Miller in his article.That guy has a ton of Suzuki stuff. Some have reported problems but its hard to make everybody happy all of the time.  http://www.millersvintage.com/

I bought loads of parts from Paul Miller when restoring my road T500, no issues. (well now that remember I did by a pair of NOS clocks for big bucks.  The Tacho was for a T350 with redline at 8k rpm instead of 7k rpm. but who cares  ).  He is not spotless however so ensure you know what you are buying.

For parts the best place to start is your Suzuki dealer, there's a bunch of stuff still available.  look at the parts fiche at Robinsons Foundry (UK) or Alpha Sports (US) and go from there. 

Cheers  Geoff

[grcamna2]

Subscribed ! 

Terry,I think there's a lot more room for modifications in your T500 engine:the engine is under-stressed as stock. 

[Tintop]

Subscribed ! 

+1

[PeWe]

This will be interesting to follow and hear when running.
A 2- smoker is tempting....

[MauiK3]

Terry, your opening statement in this thread reads like a “two strokes anonymous “ meeting!

[Zunspec]

Subscribed ! 

Terry,I think there's a lot more room for modifications in your T500 engine:the engine is under-stressed as stock. 

This engine has been tweaked a bit  .   

I'd leave any fancy port work/pipes/ etc. to later.  A nicely "blueprinted" and gas flowed top end will enable the T500 to reach "brochure" levels of power and be a very nice bike to ride.

Cheers  Geoff

[grcamna2]

Terry, your opening statement in this thread reads like a “two strokes anonymous “ meeting!

I like 'Reanimation' in the title 

[MauiK3]

T500 warp speed here we come.

[Terry in Australia]

Thanks guys, well over the last few months the "workbench" in my patio workshop had become a repository for all kinds of crap, and as much as I love Spotty's tubs, I seemed to have a lot of tubs with just a few parts in them, so I sorted thru them and found another couple of spares and quickly filled them. The tubs that Andrew had stored everything in were fcuked, and looked sh1thouse, plus I like Spotty's tubs as they're just the right size.

I cleaned up around the bench, got rid of a dozen or so large cardboard boxes and some other crap, plus the parts that came from Andrew that were beyond redemption. I put some fresh cardboard on the bench to soak up any oil, and it looked good, for maybe an hour? That's only because I thought I better fix the choke mechanism on the CB750A and install the choke cable and airbox, as they were taking up valuable space on the bench. I did, and the Auto is just getting better and better. Once I'd done that, I hauled the T500 engine up onto the bench:

T500 Sunday 8 Aug 2021 1 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

The first problem that I noticed was this:

T500 Sunday 8 Aug 2021 2 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Bugger. The problem is it's not just a hole, but there's a tab on both pieces where the forward ignition cover mounting screw mounts, but the whole lot is gone. Further along I found a threaded hole under the engine had been busted out and filled with something horrible, so I bought a much better set of cases on Ebay USA for 56 bucks. I was hoping to find a set of 1974 cases to closer match my frame, but nada, so I bought some good 1971 cases. All the oil injection lines are good, which is a bonus, so I carefully removed them, and the oil pump etc. The JIS screws on the clutch side all came out nicely, and I wondered if the cover had ever been off, but then I saw a non-original screw in the clutch, and probably some heavy duty clutch springs as well.

T500 Sunday 8 Aug 2021 4 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr 

Anyway, I removed the ignition cover, and front sprocket (I had to laugh, some knob had put the lock washer behind the sprocket, and the nut just spun off with my big rattle gun, obviously whoever installed the sprocket didn't know what he was doing. Someone had installed allen screws on the sprocket side and then butchered them, so, even though I've ordered a new stainless allen bolt kit because I like allen bolts, they weren't worth keeping, so they went in the bin.

I was gonna give up for the day, but I couldn't leave it alone, so I removed the clutch, which looked fine, except for the fingers on the basket which were a bit notchy, I better see if I can find a better one too.

T500 Sunday 8 Aug 2021 5 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

The engine/gearbox was still full of oil, which was nice and clean, but plentiful, so my lovely clean bench got covered. Oh well, there are plenty more cardboard boxes to re-cover the bench with, so I undid the top engine bolts and flipped the engine over and undid all the bottom ones. The only screws that didn't want to come out were some countersunk JIS screws on a steel plate behind the front sprocket, so I'll drill them out and buy some new ones. Anyway, that stopped me from splitting the cases, it was getting dark and I was tired, but happy that there were no major problems. Tomorrow I'll split the cases, and see what lurks within.

T500 Sunday 8 Aug 2021 6 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Ooher, and I've just discovered Titan Performance expansion chambers, and of course, I now want some. I've just sent them a request for a shipping quote. Looks like the Genie is out of the bottle (and out of control) again.........

Titan Performance exhaust by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Titan Performance 22 degree exhaust by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr
 

[grcamna2]

You're giving the T500 the 'Terry Treatment'  for reanimation ! 
I'm upset that you have a chunk of engine case missing Terry:when do you expect the other bottom-end Ebay purchase to arrive from the USA ? Could be you might be able to replace just the lower case?  so you keep the engine numbers intact ?

Did you also get stock pipes from Andrew with the purchase?

[RAFster122s]

Do we need a new adjective in the title, big? As in "... big budget reanimation..."

[Terry in Australia]

Ha ha, yes David, I do need to be mindful that all my builds have a limit, I do admire big dollar builds, but with over 20 bikes, I really can't afford to build a showbike, and there's no point putting $20K into a $10K bike. Don't get me wrong, it'll be nice, but no show bike. I do like those expansion chambers though.

I do have the OEM pipes Bill, but they have the usual dents and scrapes, and so I will seriously think about some chambers. Re: the engine number, I can use just the bottom case as the T500 has a roller bearing crank, but the engine's a 1972 "J" model and the rolling chassis is all 1974 "L", so it makes no difference if I use the 1971 top and bottom case that I've bought. Turnaround time shouldn't be more than a couple of weeks, all going well, as the seller only needs to send them to Florida, and then they get Fedexed to me, with a heap of other parts I've bought already.  

[Zunspec]

Hi Terry,

All T/GT 500 engines will fit in any T/GT500 frame, all the same in that respect.  The broken ign. cover tab is not unheard of, I have a set of cases with the same defect.  It is outside of the sealed crankshaft area though so has no affect on crankcase sealing. 

Have a look at the oil capacity, cast into the upper c/case by the oil filler plug.  If it has "1200 cc" you need to check for the scary "oil dam mod"   If it has "1400 cc" you are good to go.  If your replacement lower has the "1400 cc" it's not a bad idea to fit it.

Titan Performance pipes have a sound reputation for a straight forward trouble free fit, and look the business.  They are not performance pipes though and Paul Courbot, to his credit, does not make any silly claims for them.  They are a a great choice to replace a scabby set of original silencers though, there's many happy customers who will agree.

Cheers  Geoff

[Terry in Australia]

Hi Terry,

All T/GT 500 engines will fit in any T/GT500 frame, all the same in that respect.  The broken ign. cover tab is not unheard of, I have a set of cases with the same defect.  It is outside of the sealed crankshaft area though so has no affect on crankcase sealing. 

Have a look at the oil capacity, cast into the upper c/case by the oil filler plug.  If it has "1200 cc" you need to check for the scary "oil dam mod"   If it has "1400 cc" you are good to go.  If your replacement lower has the "1400 cc" it's not a bad idea to fit it.

Titan Performance pipes have a sound reputation for a straight forward trouble free fit, and look the business.  They are not performance pipes though and Paul Courbot, to his credit, does not make any silly claims for them.  They are a a great choice to replace a scabby set of original silencers though, there's many happy customers who will agree.

Cheers  Geoff

Thanks Geoff, mine definitely doesn't have the "1400" label so I'm hoping I won't find some damaged gears therein when I open it tomorrow, but once I find a pic of the mod, I'll be doing it. I did think about "Rednecking" a repair on the cases, but if I start bodging things this early in the piece, I'll probably lose interest. Yeah I wasn't expecting a big boost in power by adding the chambers, but they sound good, and do look nice.

I think I mentioned that we're in lockdown at the moment, so no visiting your mates to bum stuff off them. I was therefore, very lucky that when I drove to the Shell station to buy some diesel to wash my gearbox and crank components that I bumped into Spotty, who'd driven to Hungry Jacks (Burger King) at the same location, to buy a burger.

Even more coincidentally, he had some empty tubs in the back of his car, it's almost like he somehow knew that I needed some more? Anyway, we quickly exchanged pleasantries and went home before the roving bands of Covid Police threw us into the back of one of their Black Mariaha's. I am so fcuking sick of this lockdown crap......    

[krusty]

G'day Terry. I have a August 69 T500 dealer's parts list (August 69) I don't need. PM me your address if you can use it - gratis.
Lyndon

[Terry in Australia]

G'day Terry. I have a August 69 T500 dealer's parts list (August 69) I don't need. PM me your address if you can use it - gratis.
Lyndon

Woohoo! Hey thanks mate, that'll be great, cheers!