Author Topic: Custom Transmission Gears (Read 3651 times)

Rocketman · « **on:** August 19, 2021, 07:20:35 PM »

Trying to find someone who can manufacture one off transmission gears. Something along the lines of the close ratio gears Moore Performance made for my CB550. He reduced first gear on the sprocket shaft by 3 teeth and fifth gear on the clutch shaft by one tooth. The gear on the opposing shaft is stock. Trying to get a gear made to close up the gap between fourth and fifth on my brother’s enduro based roadracer. Need to change the 22 tooth fifth to 21 teeth. Nova is not interested nor is Robinson in the US. Asked Motogears and they want to change both gears. May take another run at Motogears. Any suggestions welcomed.

turboguzzi · « **Reply #1 on:** August 20, 2021, 02:04:05 AM »

what enduro is it based on?
i raced a XTZ660 based supermono in the past, so collected some info...

Sam Green Racing · « **Reply #2 on:** August 20, 2021, 02:17:32 AM »

Quote from: Rocketman on August 19, 2021, 07:20:35 PM

Trying to find someone who can manufacture one off transmission gears. Something along the lines of the close ratio gears Moore Performance made for my CB550. He reduced first gear on the sprocket shaft by 3 teeth and fifth gear on the clutch shaft by one tooth. The gear on the opposing shaft is stock. Trying to get a gear made to close up the gap between fourth and fifth on my brother’s enduro based roadracer. Need to change the 22 tooth fifth to 21 teeth. Nova is not interested nor is Robinson in the US. Asked Motogears and they want to change both gears. May take another run at Motogears. Any suggestions welcomed.

Rocketman, can Ellis Moore not still do the work for you ?

Sam.

Rocketman · « **Reply #3 on:** August 20, 2021, 05:23:07 AM »

His racer is based on a 1972 Kawasaki F7. He is using a fifth gear set out of a KE 175 which is slightly better than the stock F7 fifth gears.

My understanding is Ellis has shut down his business after a racing accident. That would be wonderful news if he is okay and back making gears.

bwaller · « **Reply #4 on:** August 20, 2021, 09:28:21 AM »

Martin, send me an email with a picture and I'll contact my guy. If it's a simple job it's probably worth checking with him.

simon#42 · « **Reply #5 on:** August 20, 2021, 10:44:47 AM »

Quote from: Rocketman on August 20, 2021, 05:23:07 AM

His racer is based on a 1972 Kawasaki F7. He is using a fifth gear set out of a KE 175 which is slightly better than the stock F7 fifth gears.

My understanding is Ellis has shut down his business after a racing accident. That would be wonderful news if he is okay and back making gears.

i dont think he is ok and as far as i am aware he is no longer making gears .

Sam Green Racing · « **Reply #6 on:** August 20, 2021, 03:19:35 PM »

Quote from: simon#42 on August 20, 2021, 10:44:47 AM

Quote from: Rocketman on August 20, 2021, 05:23:07 AM
His racer is based on a 1972 Kawasaki F7. He is using a fifth gear set out of a KE 175 which is slightly better than the stock F7 fifth gears.

My understanding is Ellis has shut down his business after a racing accident. That would be wonderful news if he is okay and back making gears.

i dont think he is ok and as far as i am aware he is no longer making gears .

Simon and Rocketman, he only lives a few miles from me but I hadn't heard of this, I hope he is OK.
If I remember, I'll ring him tomorrow.

grcamna2 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 20, 2021, 03:43:55 PM »

subscribed

simon#42 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 21, 2021, 04:23:20 AM »

hi sam , as far as i am aware he had an accident at aintree a few years ago and was paralysed .

754 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 21, 2021, 12:32:21 PM »

Think about it, I dont think you can change tooth count on one gear and not the other.. unless you change shaft centers..
Its not sprockets you are changing..

If you dont understand this, I can see why they say No..

bwaller · « **Reply #10 on:** August 21, 2021, 01:41:00 PM »

Well Frank, that's exactly what I did when I built the 6spd then tightened the ratios!

MRieck · « **Reply #11 on:** August 21, 2021, 05:05:17 PM »

Quote from: 754 on August 21, 2021, 12:32:21 PM

Think about it, I dont think you can change tooth count on one gear and not the other.. unless you change shaft centers..
Its not sprockets you are changing..

If you dont understand this, I can see why they say No..

Yes.....it's a 2 gear change. I usually don't comment on stuff like this but it is a very basic point.

simon#42 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 22, 2021, 02:59:44 AM »

no its not always a 2 gear swap . my rotax has a choice of 6 ratios for each gear and they are changed for each circuit . sometimes its a 2 gear change sometimes only one .

kmb69 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 22, 2021, 08:14:04 AM »

Quote from: MRieck on August 21, 2021, 05:05:17 PM

Quote from: 754 on August 21, 2021, 12:32:21 PM
Think about it, I dont think you can change tooth count on one gear and not the other.. unless you change shaft centers..
Its not sprockets you are changing..

If you dont understand this, I can see why they say No..
Yes.....it's a 2 gear change. I usually don't comment on stuff like this but it is a very basic point.

Yes, you can sometimes change only one, depending on size of gear(s), tooth count, etc.
It's called "profile shifting".

bwaller · « **Reply #14 on:** August 22, 2021, 12:10:22 PM »

Quote from: kmb69 on August 22, 2021, 08:14:04 AM

Quote from: MRieck on August 21, 2021, 05:05:17 PM
Quote from: 754 on August 21, 2021, 12:32:21 PM
Think about it, I dont think you can change tooth count on one gear and not the other.. unless you change shaft centers..
Its not sprockets you are changing..

If you dont understand this, I can see why they say No..
Yes.....it's a 2 gear change. I usually don't comment on stuff like this but it is a very basic point.

Yes, you can sometimes change only one, depending on size of gear(s), tooth count, etc.
It's called "profile shifting".

Thanks for the explanation Keith, and I won't pretend to be in the know as to the process, but this is what Ellis did for me. I picked the ratios that I wanted and determined tooth count change needed. There were four individual gears on one shaft or the other, and for 1st gear it required a new mainshaft (integral 1st gear) and it's mate on the countershaft needed to be replaced. For two individual gears, there was a 2 tooth change.

turboguzzi · « **Reply #15 on:** August 22, 2021, 12:21:18 PM »

Quote from: simon#42 on August 21, 2021, 04:23:20 AM

hi sam , as far as i am aware he had an accident at aintree a few years ago and was paralysed .

had only some email exchanges with the guy, but still very very sad to hear this. I hope for him all the best, even if in that condition, life is not really smiling at you.

bwaller · « **Reply #16 on:** August 22, 2021, 01:23:02 PM »

Agreed TG. He was a fellow racer and I hope he is able to enjoy life.

MRieck · « **Reply #17 on:** August 22, 2021, 02:36:11 PM »

Quote from: kmb69 on August 22, 2021, 08:14:04 AM

Quote from: MRieck on August 21, 2021, 05:05:17 PM
Quote from: 754 on August 21, 2021, 12:32:21 PM
Think about it, I dont think you can change tooth count on one gear and not the other.. unless you change shaft centers..
Its not sprockets you are changing..

If you dont understand this, I can see why they say No..
Yes.....it's a 2 gear change. I usually don't comment on stuff like this but it is a very basic point.

Yes, you can sometimes change only one, depending on size of gear(s), tooth count, etc.
It's called "profile shifting".

I stand corrected. My point was based on trying to swap gears years ago from F2 to K transmissions. Thanks for the clarification fellas.

turboguzzi · « **Reply #18 on:** August 22, 2021, 11:19:22 PM »

in the town where my GF lives there's a guy doing gears for vintage rally cars.
showed him a pair i needed for my supermono, he could replicate them no problem, but setting up the machine for just 1 set puts you in the hundreds of $/£/Euro range per unit.
if you can pool some people into doing a small run gets way cheaper... but cant think that many guys racing kawasaki 2 stroke off-road singles!

Rocketman · « **Reply #19 on:** August 23, 2021, 05:43:44 PM »

You are right on that TG! Off road Kawasaki two stroke enduro road racers are few and far between! My brother has decided to go with Motogears. Hoping they can use one of the F7 or KE 175 stock gears. If not he will have a set made. Will post his experience and the amount spent.

turboguzzi · « **Reply #20 on:** August 25, 2021, 07:36:35 AM »

czech republic, interesting,
out of curiosity, how much were they quoting you for a one gear or a matched set of 2?

Rocketman · « **Reply #21 on:** August 26, 2021, 06:13:17 PM »

The quote for a pair of gears is 400 euros. I thought the price was reasonable. We will see if they deliver quality parts in a timely manner.

kmb69 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 27, 2021, 06:56:29 AM »

This attachment shows a good example of a "Profile Shifted" gear.
The centerline is such that the small gear cannot have the standard Module 2 tooth form to match the large gear.
Same type of thing is done occasionally to change gear ratios.
They can be thickened or thinned keeping the same pitch.

754 · « **Reply #23 on:** August 27, 2021, 07:41:07 AM »

Its a new concept to me, goes against all the tgeory we were taught.
So i can see changing the big one a tooth or two, but changing the smaller even 1 tooth would really affect clearance a lot.
Must be increased wear ir noise when doing this ?

kmb69 · « **Reply #24 on:** August 27, 2021, 08:08:22 AM »

Quote from: 754 on August 27, 2021, 07:41:07 AM

Its a new concept to me, goes against all the tgeory we were taught.
So i can see changing the big one a tooth or two, but changing the smaller even 1 tooth would really affect clearance a lot.
Must be increased wear ir noise when doing this ?

It is quite commonly done. These are stock Honda starter gear parts.
Old man Weissman, RIP, of Weissman Transmissions got his big start by changing ratios with only one of the gears for racers.
Most gear calculation software has the option to allow shifted profiles.

Cannot answer your last question.

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Author Topic: Custom Transmission Gears (Read 3651 times)