Author Topic: Grocery store gas stations  (Read 4375 times)

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Offline KennyRedman

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Grocery store gas stations
« Reply #50 on: October 13, 2021, 05:19:31 AM »

umm....no....pay attention to who's elected and who's forcing what. I didn't vote to cancel the keystone pipeline......stop fracking.....and beg opec to produce more.....
    big oil was doing just fine until jan 2021........wake up.
Not to get political, but my best friend sells oil and has done so for 20 years. It has nothing to do with that, and he knew prices were going to go up last year. He’s been telling shops and dealers to stock up and when they didn’t, they get pissed at him when they have to pay double now. There’s a direct correlation between refinery fires, shutdowns, and prices a year or more later.

Offline KennyRedman

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Re: Grocery store gas stations
« Reply #51 on: October 13, 2021, 05:24:11 AM »

Offline goodtryer

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Re: Grocery store gas stations
« Reply #52 on: October 13, 2021, 07:13:16 AM »
Quote
There’s a direct correlation between refinery fires, shutdowns, and prices a year or more later.

This is correct except for the delay. The price effect is immediate. The recent storms in the Gulf Coast are prime examples. As soon as the forecasts started predicting an impact, spot market prices went up, futures prices went up... Fires and electric supply problems on the West Coast are not uncommon causes of supply issues and price spikes. The correlation is easy to see.

Collectively, the refineries spend hundreds of millions (not exaggerating) each year on planned maintenance on units that must be shut down, cleaned, rebuilt, expanded, etc. These maintenance events can last up to 60 days for the largest complexes, less than a week for smaller ones. However, these events are planned and public knowledge; the market plans for them. The refiner will stock up products in advance and supply the market from storage. And other refineries, locally or via pipeline, will fill the market demand. The real problem occurs when you have one or two refineries down for planned maintenance and then a third or forth go down due to a storm or fire or power outage.

The market in California is complicated, to put it mildly, and adding uncertainty like the small engine thing is not going to help; refiners have no incentive to invest in additional capacity. Pile the shipping logjam or labor shortage on top and you have a perfect storm to cause higher prices in the short term also. All of this is without considering the effect of increasing taxes* or inflation from creating TRILLIONS of dollars out of thin air.

Arizona, New Mexico, and that area are victims of their location regarding petroleum products. Regional refining capacity is miniscule and adding pipeline capacity is high-risk, low-return. There is more demand and easier supply to the east and west so that's where the investment goes. Consequently, if there is any kind of disruption (in the supply to the refineries, in the pipelines from the refineries, or in the local market area [electrical, flooding, freeze, etc.]), like I said, the price effect is immediate.

*According to this article, taxes and fees are as much as $1.21 PER GALLON. I'm old enough to remember when the entire cost for a gallon of gas was less than $.50. No doubt, many of you bought it for much less in your youth. https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/news/how-much-do-californians-pay-in-taxes-and-fees-on-each-gallon-of-gas/ar-AAMd2Es

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Offline seanbarney41

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Re: Grocery store gas stations
« Reply #53 on: October 13, 2021, 08:07:22 AM »
No!  Dont ban lawns!   My purpose in life will be over!
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Offline KennyRedman

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Grocery store gas stations
« Reply #54 on: October 13, 2021, 08:09:59 AM »
Quote
There’s a direct correlation between refinery fires, shutdowns, and prices a year or more later.

This is correct except for the delay. The price effect is immediate. The recent storms in the Gulf Coast are prime examples. As soon as the forecasts started predicting an impact, spot market prices went up, futures prices went up... Fires and electric supply problems on the West Coast are not uncommon causes of supply issues and price spikes. The correlation is easy to see.

Collectively, the refineries spend hundreds of millions (not exaggerating) each year on planned maintenance on units that must be shut down, cleaned, rebuilt, expanded, etc. These maintenance events can last up to 60 days for the largest complexes, less than a week for smaller ones. However, these events are planned and public knowledge; the market plans for them. The refiner will stock up products in advance and supply the market from storage. And other refineries, locally or via pipeline, will fill the market demand. The real problem occurs when you have one or two refineries down for planned maintenance and then a third or forth go down due to a storm or fire or power outage.

The market in California is complicated, to put it mildly, and adding uncertainty like the small engine thing is not going to help; refiners have no incentive to invest in additional capacity. Pile the shipping logjam or labor shortage on top and you have a perfect storm to cause higher prices in the short term also. All of this is without considering the effect of increasing taxes* or inflation from creating TRILLIONS of dollars out of thin air.

Arizona, New Mexico, and that area are victims of their location regarding petroleum products. Regional refining capacity is miniscule and adding pipeline capacity is high-risk, low-return. There is more demand and easier supply to the east and west so that's where the investment goes. Consequently, if there is any kind of disruption (in the supply to the refineries, in the pipelines from the refineries, or in the local market area [electrical, flooding, freeze, etc.]), like I said, the price effect is immediate.

*According to this article, taxes and fees are as much as $1.21 PER GALLON. I'm old enough to remember when the entire cost for a gallon of gas was less than $.50. No doubt, many of you bought it for much less in your youth. https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/news/how-much-do-californians-pay-in-taxes-and-fees-on-each-gallon-of-gas/ar-AAMd2Es

Cheers!
That’s great info, appreciate it.

And it was only 25 years ago (seems like yesterday) that it was a dollar-something. I traveled around the country on $15 a tank or less.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2021, 08:11:55 AM by KennyRedman »

Offline Don R

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Re: Grocery store gas stations
« Reply #55 on: October 13, 2021, 09:07:37 AM »
I mentioned elsewhere I got 10 gallons of 110 avgas for about $50. My plan is mix it 50/50 with no alky pump gas and use it for my bikes that sit too much. A friend uses it in his Simplexes and Indians with good results. The airport has a self service pay at the pump setup. I just acted like I owned the place, someone drove by to see what I was up to and didn't say boo. I did use the guys that buy there N number N12345678 to make it work.

Don,How does 100 avgas run for you,and what color is 100 oct. fuel? Do you need to use different local plane I.D. numbers(N12345678,etc.)and key the pumps in to their exact number? I plan on going to a small airport and purchase from the self service pump,just haven't gotten up the nerve yet.
The pump gave letter choices and N came up automatically, I clicked on it, next it wanted a number, my buddies said they used N12345678. It had an option to use a local number or create a new one, I chose create a new one but the guys I know have used that one before so either would have worked.  Our local fbo does not mind selling fuel, a truck came flying past and then turned around and went flying back. I didn't even look at it. I think a lady coming back from lunch told them someone was out there.  It took two tries on the credit card to get it through but I'll be quicker next time.
  I think the gas was blue but I pumped it into a tank with blue 2 stroke oil already in it.  I don't plan to run it 100% but the bike ran fine last night on the weak mix.
  I also have a 10 gallon red plastic jug on an aluminum two wheel cart, just what an airplane owner might use to transfer a little fuel. Use the ground cable too just in case.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2021, 09:29:06 AM by Don R »
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Offline grcamna2

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Re: Grocery store gas stations
« Reply #56 on: October 13, 2021, 02:28:53 PM »
I mentioned elsewhere I got 10 gallons of 110 avgas for about $50. My plan is mix it 50/50 with no alky pump gas and use it for my bikes that sit too much. A friend uses it in his Simplexes and Indians with good results. The airport has a self service pay at the pump setup. I just acted like I owned the place, someone drove by to see what I was up to and didn't say boo. I did use the guys that buy there N number N12345678 to make it work.

Don,How does 100 avgas run for you,and what color is 100 oct. fuel? Do you need to use different local plane I.D. numbers(N12345678,etc.)and key the pumps in to their exact number? I plan on going to a small airport and purchase from the self service pump,just haven't gotten up the nerve yet.
The pump gave letter choices and N came up automatically, I clicked on it, next it wanted a number, my buddies said they used N12345678. It had an option to use a local number or create a new one, I chose create a new one but the guys I know have used that one before so either would have worked.  Our local fbo does not mind selling fuel, a truck came flying past and then turned around and went flying back. I didn't even look at it. I think a lady coming back from lunch told them someone was out there.  It took two tries on the credit card to get it through but I'll be quicker next time.
  I think the gas was blue but I pumped it into a tank with blue 2 stroke oil already in it.  I don't plan to run it 100% but the bike ran fine last night on the weak mix.
  I also have a 10 gallon red plastic jug on an aluminum two wheel cart, just what an airplane owner might use to transfer a little fuel. Use the ground cable too just in case.

The 'N' is the first letter(the large row of numbers across both sides of the fuselage)that planes use for their registration/identification number here in the USA. I wonder if using a plane's number that's presently sitting tied-down on the parking area would work ? I imagine there's a policy/rule that says they can't sell it to someone unless they have a plane? How about saying I have an 'ultralight' ? I have a small motorcycle  :D but I won't tell them that  ;)
« Last Edit: October 13, 2021, 02:32:22 PM by grcamna2 »
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Offline Don R

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Re: Grocery store gas stations
« Reply #57 on: October 13, 2021, 04:50:02 PM »
 Agreed, my brother knows the n number of the General's Cessna twin he worked on in the air force in the early 60's. He plans to use that number when he goes. There's a good chance it's the one hanging from the ceiling in the museum at Wright Patterson AFB.
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Online jlh3rd

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Re: Grocery store gas stations
« Reply #58 on: October 13, 2021, 05:26:50 PM »

umm....no....pay attention to who's elected and who's forcing what. I didn't vote to cancel the keystone pipeline......stop fracking.....and beg opec to produce more.....
    big oil was doing just fine until jan 2021........wake up.
Not to get political, but my best friend sells oil and has done so for 20 years. It has nothing to do with that, and he knew prices were going to go up last year. He’s been telling shops and dealers to stock up and when they didn’t, they get pissed at him when they have to pay double now. There’s a direct correlation between refinery fires, shutdowns, and prices a year or more later.

Id have to disagree with the notion of it has nothing to do with it. The political environment has a powerful effect on corporations, especially if that corporation's product is blamed for the world's troubles concerning a false climate agenda. .....that being said...
     I have lived long enough to see rises in fuel prices from refining issues, oil fires, conflicts, etc. that take only a week or two to show up. Please, don't tell me what I've seen..Yes, you can sit back and dissect in infinite detail a rationale for a viewpoint, I got it......I sit back and see the whole general picture....where we were, and where we are now.....and it's not because of any fire or shutdowns.....
     

Online jlh3rd

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Re: Grocery store gas stations
« Reply #59 on: October 13, 2021, 05:35:50 PM »

Offline 70CB750

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Re: Grocery store gas stations
« Reply #60 on: October 14, 2021, 04:10:29 AM »
No fear of it going up , it's been going up . We were told on TV 2 months ago that opec  oil was back to being purchased at 60 dollars a barrel and Americans would be enjoying lower prices at the pump. hasn't happened here. what has been happening is a weekly 10 cent increase except for last week, it went up 20 cents a gallon. It seems to me that we are being spanked by big oil because we are investing in solar farms and electric cars? I'm sure there is another excuse for why this is so and it'll all be explained to us on the news....after it hits 5 bucks a gallon.

umm....no....pay attention to who's elected and who's forcing what. I didn't vote to cancel the keystone pipeline......stop fracking.....and beg opec to produce more.....
    big oil was doing just fine until jan 2021........wake up.

Amen!
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Online jlh3rd

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Re: Grocery store gas stations
« Reply #61 on: October 14, 2021, 05:05:32 AM »
No fear of it going up , it's been going up . We were told on TV 2 months ago that opec  oil was back to being purchased at 60 dollars a barrel and Americans would be enjoying lower prices at the pump. hasn't happened here. what has been happening is a weekly 10 cent increase except for last week, it went up 20 cents a gallon. It seems to me that we are being spanked by big oil because we are investing in solar farms and electric cars? I'm sure there is another excuse for why this is so and it'll all be explained to us on the news....after it hits 5 bucks a gallon.

umm....no....pay attention to who's elected and who's forcing what. I didn't vote to cancel the keystone pipeline......stop fracking.....and beg opec to produce more.....
    big oil was doing just fine until jan 2021........wake up.

Amen!

thanks.......
   I just got back from barber....a 12 hour drive for me. Over 100 bikes just at the jap show. Beautiful restorations and others....people enjoying themselves, racing, etc...............and just where is this hobby gonna go.......
    I can't  believe the number of people who swear they love their old bikes and the vintage hobby that are in favor of the radical changes being forced on us......seriously, it doesn't make sense......it's like the old fable of killing the golden goose.......is that what they want?....'cause that's what they're gonna get...
     Ya think people will be driving 12 hours if gas becomes $5, $8... a gallon? .....what about all the enthusiasts with all their bikes, trailers, camping, motorhomes......the racers?....
      Anyone really care?.....or is it just lip service as to how much they love vintage motorcycles.......

Offline Prospect

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Re: Grocery store gas stations
« Reply #62 on: October 14, 2021, 05:40:08 AM »
For the Canadians reading this.

I went to a local gas station Petro Canada and asked the station attendant which gasoline grade doesn't have ethanol in it. He looked at me puzzled and said he has no idea. I said "you work in a gas station and you have no idea which gasolines have ethanol in it?" I couldn't believe it but then realized but perhaps only enthusiasts like us care about this stuff.

I did a little bit of research and found out that Esso and shell don't have ethanol in the more premium grade gasolines. Petro Canada uses ethanol in all their grades.
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Grocery store gas stations
« Reply #63 on: October 20, 2021, 11:12:01 AM »
No!  Dont ban lawns!   My purpose in life will be over!

Wait...you don't understand: banning lawns will make for lots less oxygen in cities, so the doomsayers can then point to the increased 'bad air' and shout, "See? We told you so!".
;)
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Offline Don R

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Re: Grocery store gas stations
« Reply #64 on: October 20, 2021, 03:58:13 PM »
 He just banned lawn mowing, not lawns.  When it goes down, I'm starting a rent a goat business to clean up the weeds. I hear they even eat poison ivy.  I don't understand why we aren't planting trees everywhere if carbon needs to be stored, trees do a good job of that. but I digress.
 
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Offline Alan F.

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Re: Grocery store gas stations
« Reply #65 on: October 20, 2021, 05:17:47 PM »

Online jlh3rd

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Re: Grocery store gas stations
« Reply #66 on: October 20, 2021, 05:30:39 PM »
my kinda "goat"

Offline Don R

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Re: Grocery store gas stations
« Reply #67 on: October 21, 2021, 07:54:52 AM »
 That is my kind of goat too. I partially learned to drive in a 65 LeMans, one step from a goat and cheaper insurance. My firebird has a Catalina engine so I call it the Bird that swallowed a Cat.
No matter how many times you paint over a shadow, it's still there.
 CEO at the no kill motorcycle shop.
 You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.