Author Topic: I went shopping last year, inside the 836  (Read 10314 times)

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Offline seanbarney41

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Re: I went shopping. The clutch,
« Reply #75 on: January 06, 2022, 06:10:15 AM »
On that flathead v8, valves most likely stuck.  Its really easy to break the stems
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Offline Don R

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Re: I went shopping. The clutch,
« Reply #76 on: January 07, 2022, 08:17:03 AM »
I recently purchased a 1963 Corvair engine for a project car that was locked up from sitting.  I had previously read on one of the car forums that a 50/50 mixture of acetone and marvel mystery oil(orAtf) was very effective in loosening up a stuck engine. After backing off the rockers of several valves that were open, I poured the mixture in each cylinder. I let it sit for 3 days and sure enough I got it to budge a tad. I moved it back and forth and I broke loose completely. After doing some other checks, I plan to crank it up on a pallet to see what condition it's in. I intend to use this same liquid formula on a 1949 Ford V8 flathead that's also locked up. You may want to consider trying the same thing. It was a fairly cheap method.

 
If you get it turning over and pumping oil get some marvell mystery oil into it. My brother built and raced flatheads in the late 60's and 70's. the marvell works wonders on the lifters. An older guy at the gas station said he had a 37 with a sticky valve, I was 16 and told him to try the MM. The next time I saw him he thanked me for fixing his car. These days he has a modern V8 in it. Holy crap, that was over 50 years ago.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2022, 06:12:48 PM by Don R »
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Offline dragracer

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Re: I went shopping. The clutch,
« Reply #77 on: January 07, 2022, 11:18:39 AM »
On that flathead v8, valves most likely stuck.  Its really easy to break the stems

Yeap. The plan was also to run the mixture into the intake as well so the stems could get a little love.

Offline Don R

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Re: I went shopping. The clutch,
« Reply #78 on: January 07, 2022, 06:21:40 PM »
 Speaking of valves, I got a bag of Honda valves out today to see what was in it. I found valves that are too big, valves that are too small and valves that are just right. Some magnetic heads, some non-magnetic heads, some F and some K. one bent really bad looks like it hit a dome, it had a Z bend. No head that these big/little valves fit into though, I think there were 36mm intakes and smaller than normal exhausts that I assume went on the same head.
  The new head for the turbo motor is ported but has stock size magnetic valves. Some stock exhausts seem to have an Inconel or similar alloy head with a magnetic stem.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2022, 02:11:32 PM by Don R »
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Offline Don R

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Re: I went shopping. Gerex question.
« Reply #79 on: January 16, 2022, 11:36:38 AM »
 
 While reading, I was reminded not to use solid core wires on an MSD ignition and it occurred to me the Gerex is also a multi spark discharge and it has solid core wires on it with no resistor caps. It did have Resistor plugs (that hit the piston domes) and I took them out. I'm wondering if I should make up a set of resistor core wires for it? 
  I'm not really sure what the science is concerning solid wires on an msd other than RFI.
 
   The Gerex instructions don't really mention coils or plug wires.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2022, 01:54:55 PM by Don R »
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Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: I went shopping. Gerex question.
« Reply #80 on: January 16, 2022, 05:43:20 PM »
Don, I will be back in CO for a week or so after 2/2. Remind me and I will pull out the info from my NOS Gerex

Well my trip is over. I will be back around the first of May if info still needed. Gotta remind then too LOL
« Last Edit: February 14, 2022, 10:19:36 AM by Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er »
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Offline scottly

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Re: I went shopping. Gerex question.
« Reply #81 on: January 16, 2022, 05:52:59 PM »
Solid core wires are fine with the Gerex. Don, there is a special race only version, which is only run in a total loss mode; max voltage is 12.6V?? Does your unit say Race on it? I couldn't see the box clearly in the pics, but IIRC it wasn't quite the same as mine?
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Offline Don R

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Re: I went shopping. Gerex question.
« Reply #82 on: January 16, 2022, 11:43:10 PM »
It's black plastic, was difficult to read the gerex up under the oil cooler. Now it's in the back like the manual shows. The PO street rode (raced) it. He said he loved to pick on kz900's, they didn't expect a 750 honda to run that hard. I don't see anything other than Gerex. He did run a charging system but not a starter on a light flywheel.
 I printed read the manual you guys linked me to, it doesn't mention plug wires at all. I think the msd reasoning is about rfi.
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Offline Don R

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Re: I went shopping. Gerex question.
« Reply #83 on: February 13, 2022, 11:58:40 AM »
 I've read a little more on the Gerex and I was wondering if mine is one of the electronic ignitions and not the CDI version. My reasoning was, it does not make any noise at all when energized and the Cir-cycle coils seem to be standard, close to 5 ohm.
  The box is rear outlet wiring, plastic and says multifire on it with a G. According to a KZ forum I read multifire is CD and convertible electronic is not a CD, the electronic has a smaller box.
  This being the case, I think I should try some lower ohm coils.

https://kzrider.com/forum/4-electrical/183884-gerex-ignition-system

https://www.advrider.com/f/threads/anyone-familiar-with-gerex-ignition.1511361/

 https://www.holley.com/products/marine_and_powersports/motorcycle/motorcycle_ignition/motorcycle_ignition_coils/parts/140404?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&hsa_acc=7848552874&hsa_cam=1739794947&hsa_grp=1147890726837754&hsa_ad=&hsa_src=o&hsa_tgt=pla-4575342763268921&hsa_kw=&hsa_mt=e&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&msclkid=adb957cfe368105e327335c68a072c73&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping%20-%20Accel%20-%20Non-Brand&utm_term=4575342763268921&utm_content=Accel%20Motorcycle

« Last Edit: February 13, 2022, 12:27:53 PM by Don R »
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Offline scottly

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Re: I went shopping. Gerex question.
« Reply #84 on: February 13, 2022, 07:52:55 PM »
Hey Don, if your ignition is not a CDI, lower resistance coils may fry it, just like too low resistance coils would fry points in a short time. Play it safe and keep the coils you have; I ran my CDI for decades with stock Honda coils. ;)
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Offline Don R

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Re: I went shopping. Gerex question.
« Reply #85 on: February 14, 2022, 12:26:46 PM »
Sometimes I overthink and then overpost. Thanks for the heads up on that Scott.
  I was comparing my two ohm meters on these cir-cycle coils, a cheap H/F digital and an old  mychronta ? analog meter bought by my brother in a bar. The cheapie would not repeat close enough to call good at first, but I figured it out and eventually got matching numbers.
  According to what I've read the multifire box is CD, the electronic non CD units are labeled Gerex convertible points replacement.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2022, 09:01:52 PM by Don R »
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Offline Don R

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Re: I went shopping. inside the 836 turbo
« Reply #86 on: February 25, 2022, 04:32:35 PM »
  I took the turbo motor apart yesterday and today.
   I found the best way to remove rusted in pistons is, put them in the press and put a light load on them, if they don't come out heat with a large torch and when the penetrating oil smokes pour in some marvel mystery oil and walk away. A half hour later they pop right out. Getting the rings loose without gouging anything is another thread.

  MTC steel rods and a balanced crank, there was a little grinding/polishing done to the weights.
  I read they used small block ford rod bolts.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2022, 05:20:55 PM by Don R »
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 You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: I went shopping. inside the 836 turbo
« Reply #87 on: February 25, 2022, 06:13:01 PM »
HD studs
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Offline Don R

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Re: I went shopping. inside the 836 turbo
« Reply #88 on: February 25, 2022, 08:32:20 PM »
HD studs

  Head and crank studs. It even has studs for the head front center bolt and under the nickel washers. They tighten through the fins with an end wrench.
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 You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Offline Don R

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Re: I went shopping. inside the 836 turbo
« Reply #89 on: March 06, 2022, 10:32:31 PM »
   So far it appears I'm only using the crank and rods from the turbo motor, the case is welded, rings rusted into the grooves, cylinder rusty, an exhaust valve was stuck open, tranny not so fresh.
   I went with an F2 trans, clutch and primary chains. They were all low miles and appear perfect.
   The motor came with a ported fresh head, I think the chambers need a little work to even them up, one has a ding in a high spot. Just shelf wear.
No matter how many times you paint over a shadow, it's still there.
 CEO at the no kill motorcycle shop.
 You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Offline dragracer

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Re: I went shopping. inside the 836 turbo
« Reply #90 on: March 07, 2022, 04:26:37 AM »
   So far it appears I'm only using the crank and rods from the turbo motor, the case is welded, rings rusted into the grooves, cylinder rusty, an exhaust valve was stuck open, tranny not so fresh.
   I went with an F2 trans, clutch and primary chains. They were all low miles and appear perfect.
   The motor came with a ported fresh head, I think the chambers need a little work to even them up, one has a ding in a high spot. Just shelf wear.

I've run the steel rods in my bike for 25 years. Nothing has come apart yet, thankfully.

Offline Don R

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Re: I went shopping. inside the 836 turbo
« Reply #91 on: March 07, 2022, 03:29:34 PM »
 Ken at CycleX wants to talk on the phone after I sent an email.
  The turbo motor had steel MTC rods and also came with a set of new aluminum ones. I'm unsure if there are new forged flat top pistons available in any bore size.
No matter how many times you paint over a shadow, it's still there.
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Offline corky

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Re: I went shopping. inside the 836 turbo
« Reply #92 on: March 09, 2022, 05:20:04 AM »
If you have a chance Don, upload a picture of one of the MTC rods.  I realize if you aren't taking the motor apart this wont be possible, lol.  I have never seen a picture of one of those posted.  They must have been even less common then the RC steel rods.

Thanks,
Daniel

Offline MRieck

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Re: I went shopping. inside the 836 turbo
« Reply #93 on: March 09, 2022, 06:10:27 AM »
Ken at CycleX wants to talk on the phone after I sent an email.
  The turbo motor had steel MTC rods and also came with a set of new aluminum ones. I'm unsure if there are new forged flat top pistons available in any bore size.
Dynoman has 836 turbo pistons.....I recently installed a set.  Unfortunately they use XA rings (which are fine for NA).....I'd much rather run an XC ring pack for a turbo. Total Seal can cut the piston for XC but obviously there is more money involved.
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Offline Don R

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Re: I went shopping. inside the 836 turbo
« Reply #94 on: March 09, 2022, 08:19:18 AM »
 Here is a pic of an mtc steel rod, I don't have a scale but they aren't light. You can see where they were lightly milled in the web near the pin, either lightening to balance or maybe just to smooth the casting. They are a little gunky, I've been soaking and heating them to try to loosen the stuck rings.
 The rod bolts may be small block ford, The nuts are 1/2"
« Last Edit: March 09, 2022, 08:23:59 AM by Don R »
No matter how many times you paint over a shadow, it's still there.
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 You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Offline desertrefugee

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Re: I went shopping. inside the 836 turbo
« Reply #95 on: March 09, 2022, 08:24:28 AM »
I don't know Don. You're throwing all the best parts at this motor, so why would you go with the steel rods?  Understood that durability would be essentially assured, but...

Seems to me that if you're going to go "all the way", splurging on a good set of forged aluminum rods would make all the difference in taching it up.
'86 Vmax, '83 ZN1300, '78 GL1000, '75 CB750 K5, '78 F4

Offline Don R

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Re: I went shopping. inside the 836 turbo
« Reply #96 on: March 09, 2022, 08:35:36 AM »
 You mean like this?  The PO thinks they are new, just shelf worn and dirty. Too bad he didn't leave them boxed up.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2022, 08:37:25 AM by Don R »
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Offline Don R

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Re: I went shopping. inside the 836 turbo
« Reply #97 on: March 09, 2022, 08:39:16 AM »
  The crank may have been balanced with the steel rods. I'm not too sure if it matters that much on a 4 cylinder inline motor.
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Offline MRieck

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Re: I went shopping. inside the 836 turbo
« Reply #98 on: March 09, 2022, 08:42:36 AM »
  The crank may have been balanced with the steel rods. I'm not too sure if it matters that much on a 4 cylinder inline motor.
The rods don't make a difference....if the crank is balanced you can install whatever you want.
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Offline Don R

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Re: I went shopping. inside the 836 turbo
« Reply #99 on: March 09, 2022, 09:46:49 AM »
 Thanks Mike.
No matter how many times you paint over a shadow, it's still there.
 CEO at the no kill motorcycle shop.
 You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.