Topic: New Turbo thread

[Don R]

Yes. 823cc 64.5mm
[/quote]
 Thank you, that says it all. I was perplexed when it didn't fit an 811 bore or fill an old 836. I always thought 823 was the twin cam cc with a 65mm bore so I ignored 823 parts. The PO didn't remember owning anything that wasn't 836 either. He did buy a couple other turbo bikes over the years for parts etc.

[Don R]

 This is a bigger challenge than any 4-1 I've seen due to its shortness. I made some spreaders, they will be improved once the header is Cerakoted.  I'm thinking someone re-welded this thing and moved the tubes a little. There's no plating on the weld and you can see a couple mig berries in the crotch of the pipes.

[BomberMann650]

Guys - i need some guidance on draw through setup like the old ray jay.

Does it make a difference between "pod" filter or velocity stack? 

[Don R]

  I have to say it may depend on the carburetor used. The guys tell me my 29 mikuni smoothbores are quite happy to not have a stock airbox due to the air bleed design.
  My ATP turbo has a Zenith/Bendix that was probably born to be used on an Ironhead sportster. It has an adjustable pilot and main jet. Some guys go to the Mikuni equivalent.   

[BomberMann650]

  I have to say it may depend on the carburetor used. The guys tell me my 29 mikuni smoothbores are quite happy to not have a stock airbox due to the air bleed design.
  My ATP turbo has a Zenith/Bendix that was probably born to be used on an Ironhead sportster. It has an adjustable pilot and main jet. Some guys go to the Mikuni equivalent.

I picked up an HS40 at the swap meet - likely from some v twin potato setup

The filter sold to compliment these carbs is a short circle sandwiched between come lids.  Not even sure i could mount one with my doglegged adapter.

[Don R]

  My ATP came with a filter like that, two flat plates with an undersized K&N in between. The plates appear to need to be wired together. I have to believe there is a Harley filter of some type that will work.

[BomberMann650]

  My ATP came with a filter like that, two flat plates with an undersized K&N in between. The plates appear to need to be wired together. I have to believe there is a Harley filter of some type that will work.

My buddy and i were joking about putting one of the huge SE/kuryakin double spike filters on it for the laughs.

Other possibility is making a few different v-stacks on the 3d printer and let the dyno tuner pick the best one.

[Don R]

  I was finally able to get the spider header on a head, I realized the welds didn't appear consistent with the header and concluded it was re-welded after the fact and was not bolted to a head at the time.
  I made a set of tube spreaders to get it together, after the pipes are coated this system will require a bit of finesse to not gouge them.
  Now a test fit of the entire system may commence.

[NitroHunter]

In light of it having been previously repaired, I'd think about cutting some welds to provide relief into your header, then re-welding with those spreaders preload giving you the right fit against the shrinkage as the welds cools. Don't want to mar up a fresh coating.

[Don R]

 Good point, the weld berries and mig looking appearance of the bead should have told me a little, but I often choose to not see what I don't want to see. lol.
  That shop still exists and still makes headers for turbo bikes. I wonder what the odds are that the jig for these is still in the attic?  they build per order and do LSR stuff too.
https://rbracing-rsr.com/

[NitroHunter]

.

https://rbracing-rsr.com/

Love their Calculations page. It should be pinned to the Hi-Po section. Every gearhead that reads through this section of the Forum should find something pertinent to their interests there.

[Buelligan]

Just for reference APT modified the emulsion tube on the Bendix/Zenith carb Also the originals had a modified mounting flange. Horizontal unlike the Harley vertical

[Don R]

  Thanks, I did not know that.
   I finally got the spider header over the exhaust studs and was able to test fit the intake of choice, I thought I was going to have to use my second favorite due to the way it was fitting. The turbo to manifold rubber appears to be over length, so it needs checked and trimmed, it may be causing less joint overlap in the header collector to head pipe.
 
  The assembly is heavy, I'm wondering if there was a hanger of some sort on the frame keeping the weight off of the rubber intake joints and the header pipe. The stock air filter box tabs are bent outward leading me to think there was.
  The next question is where to install the O2 wide band sensor and pyrometer probe. The after-turbo pipe may be too short to keep reversion air out and skewing the readings. I'm thinking that putting the pyrometer thermocouple near the 4-1 collector and the O2 sensor closer to the turbo is my best choice.

[Don R]

 One of the facebook drag bike guys added a compressed air fitting to the exhaust housing on his turbocharger. He could get a decent boost by hitting the air button while on a pass.
 Not my story but it's an interesting idea. I oiled my turbo and spun it up with a blow gun, it sounded like a civil defense siren.

[Tracksnblades1]

One of the facebook drag bike guys added a compressed air fitting to the exhaust housing on his turbocharger. He could get a decent boost by hitting the air button while on a pass.
 Not my story but it's an interesting idea. I oiled my turbo and spun it up with a blow gun, it sounded like a civil defense siren.

HoleShot spool trick…?

[Don R]

 It has a name then, I hadn't heard of it before. He said he got a steady boost, must have had it on a jet with enough volume for a pass. Ran off the horn button.

[Tracksnblades1]

It has a name then, I hadn't heard of it before. He said he got a steady boost, must have had it on a jet with enough volume for a pass. Ran off the horn button.

Cb750A
Transbrake
HoleShot Spool blast air
🤔

I read somewhere ricer’s are running 140psig in 5 gal tanks for the spool up for oversized turbos…
Air tank solenoid shuts off tank pressure once turbo has 15psig boost…

1.8 liters are doing  140# in 1) gallon air tanks with small turbos…

[Tracksnblades1]

Found it…😁

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/news/a27515/volvos-diesel-turbo-lag-solution-is-compressed-air/

[NitroHunter]

Dale Walker of Holeshot Performance is the guy that Don read about using the compressed air to spool up his turbo. He's a pretty clever guy, he got his start as a teenager racing in the '70's on the West coast, ultimately riding for Kosman. He ran a dragbike racing school and manufactured an electric kill system used with foot shifting.
He's recently come back into the dragbike world and has been running with our Western Pro Extreme association. There's talk that he may give a class for the general attendance guys during the California Nationals all-bike event in April, since it will be the largest motorcycle gathering on the West Coast.
I think he'd be pleased to see his system come back around on Don's bike.

[Don R]

 Robbie is correct, it was Dale that posted it.

[NitroHunter]

Don you should try it. 

[Don R]

 No guts no glory, right? 
  I watched the engine masters show again about roots superchargers and intercoolers. E85 with no intercooler had the same effect (more power) that an intercooler did on gasoline. The intercooler with E85 mostly did nothing since the E85 already cooled the intake charge. I'm sold on the e85/turbo idea with some static compression. I'd use canned E85 rather than pump fuel.
  If I can make that run, then I'll try other things also.
 My friend that drag raced liked Nitrous with injected alcohol, they ran it in the old midwest injected funny car circuit, he later ran top dragster with alcohol and alcohol/nos for a power adder. He thought it was a lot more forgiving of a missed tune up than race gas/nos and it didn't require two fuel tanks.
 When he called nitrous oxide systems and inquired about jetting the tech laughed, he said we don't get a lot of calls from guys that are thinking. They realized his jets were getting bigger than his nos feed line and had to replace the plumbing.

[Tracksnblades1]

No guts no glory, right? 
  I watched the engine masters show again about roots superchargers and intercoolers. E85 with no intercooler had the same effect (more power) that an intercooler did on gasoline. The intercooler with E85 mostly did nothing since the E85 already cooled the intake charge. I'm sold on the e85/turbo idea with some static compression. I'd use canned E85 rather than pump fuel.
  If I can make that run, then I'll try other things also.
 My friend that drag raced liked Nitrous with injected alcohol, they ran it in the old midwest injected funny car circuit, he later ran top dragster with alcohol and alcohol/nos for a power adder. He thought it was a lot more forgiving of a missed tune up than race gas/nos and it didn't require two fuel tanks.
 When he called nitrous oxide systems and inquired about jetting the tech laughed, he said we don't get a lot of calls from guys that are thinking. They realized his jets were getting bigger than his nos feed line and had to replace the plumbing.

That E85 is the aftercooler…🤪

What is your  E85 turbo ideal power A/F  goal ?
Are you planning on running your magneto on the E85 ?
Does an E85 engine smell like an alkky motor ?

Old school Blower/alcohol used to run 4.5 - 6 .5 AF ratios, but I’ve heard it keeps going richer for big torque numbers. Rich being safe. I’ve seen the spark plug's electrodes come back missing on a straight/alcohol blown/NOS engine, especially if there’s a hitch in the alcohol solenoid’s get up…😳

[Don R]

 So far what I know is E85 requires 20% more fuel, I'd like to run the ARD hybrid CD magneto but modern spark control would be a plus, The same with the vintage Zenith/Bendix carb. Even a thunderjet won't help if the bowl is nearly empty. I was advised by a guy with experience in the area that the fuel level can fall behind the demand.
   And an E85 exhaust smells like a frat house on Monday morning.   
   My friend that runs a turbo EFI LS motor on E85 had to add two injectors in the air box when his 8 port injectors were running at 100% duty cycle. 

[NitroHunter]

https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/fuel-cooling/clearing-air-ethanol-motorsports/
https://www.enginelabs.com/news/4-things-not-know-e85-vp-racing-fuels/

Don here's a link to some of EngineLab's articles on E-85. You've maybe seen some of these already.

I'm also sold on this fuel idea.
For me it started with the idea of having a 1/4" stroker crank and standard length Golden Rods, existing big-pin flat top Venolia blower pistons and a big valve open chamber head. You know, pretty much cobbling together a bunch of stuff that's been sitting on my shelves for years. And I like the better rod ratio, but once I did ALL the math (shout out to RBracing calculators https://rbracing-rsr.com/calculations.htm) it was working out towards 11.5:1 static compression, and when combined with a minimal overlap turbo-friendly cam #'s there was just no cylinder pressure blow down. So now I'm having to look at fuel with a seriously high threshold of detonation, and you know it isn't cheap. The last time I personally ran 30+ lbs of boost with gasoline it was with ERC 118.  And then there's the issues of boost pressure and heat, and - Manifold Air Density... (insert Gale Banks tutorial here) 
Side note: Gale Banks is THE M.A.D Scientist (Manifold Air Density) The math and physics can make your brain hurt...

Due to access, for me it would be easier to get and way cheaper, but too much trouble, to use Methanol; the corrosion factor and required flushing kinda takes the fun out of it short of being at the track. And at 2.2 X fuel volume our carb, float bowl and jet options start to get limited. 

So I spent some time reading and thinking about the E-85/turbo/high static compression engine street combo for a Saturday Night toy. Doubtful of using more than a tankful of fuel, and cans readily available from my local race gas suppliers. Very do-able.

Bottom line is get your fuel from a can. You can't trust what is displayed on the tag at a pump, for various reasons listed in these articles.