Topic: Scooters?

[Alan F.]

My soon to be 20 year old daughter thinks she wants a scooter. I'm tempted to stick with Honda and even Yamaha but I'm not sure about the European or Chinese models.

Here in Massachusetts there are 3 classes of 2-wheeled registration. Moped Sticker, good for 2 years, no insurance requirement, 30mph max, no manual shifting, car or motorcycle endorsement required, and as far as I know...no state safety inspection.
Limited Use Motorcycle 45mph max, manual shift ok, I forget if there's a displacement requirement, insurance required, motorcycle endorsement required. And full on Motorcycle which we're familliar with.

Scooters and mopeds registered with a Moped Sticker can park on sidewalks like bicycles and are restricted from highways. But here's the catch, the RMV has a list of models that they'll give a sticker to, the rest are in Limited Use Motorcycle territory.

Oh and scooters and mopeds registered with a Moped sticker don't need to have Titles. Which is nice until you park in the wrong place and get impounded, then try proving its yours. Most of those are home for good without having a title.

I'm going hunting for the latest list.

So has anyone had any good experience they'd care to share? I'd like her to ride something reliable at least.

[rocket johnny]

stay with a honda .   you get what you pay for and you   can get parts  .     the old step thru 90's run forever

[Alan F.]

It's 40mph not 45 after all.

The list for Hondas allowed as mopeds:
ELITE 50S (SA50P/AF16E),
EXPRESS NC-50 (1977-1983)
METROII, CH50P

[RAFster122s]

Kymco made parts and small motors for Honda for a long time and build a very good product. I would not blink much at considering one. They have a decent presence in the US as well.

[Alan F.]

I agree. Just get those Chinese fluids and spark plug replaced asap, tubes & tires too.

Just found this: https://www.mass.gov/how-to/apply-for-a-moped-registration looks like They want your money just like motorcyclists, except they won't issue you a title, nice!

[MauiK3]

Here on Maui there are many, many scooters. Lots of rentals. Most are Chinese stuff of one sort or another. Fit and finish deteriorate quickly. Most end up as a hulk on the side of the road. A few are fairly reliable, Genuine brand comes to mind but again, finish goes quickly. I'm not a fan.
We've had a 2009 Honda Ruckus since new. It's bullet proof, fit and finish are top drawer. It's a great little bike, water cooled. It likes non-ethanol fuel. I fabbed up a little passenger seat for it and I put a tachometer on it, just to see the little thing happily hit the rev limiter at I think 9500 and not complain at all. Top speed, down hill, wind at back, on the rev limiter is 45mph. Happy as a clam in mud. Honda is also bringing out the Navi which looks like it will be a great little scoot.
Stick with Honda.

[Alan F.]

I'll try to upload the list PDF so you can all see what I've got to work with. I downloaded the Offer-Up app which seems to be full of scooters and mopeds by younger folks who can't be bothered. Not always titled, but that doesn't seem to be the end of the world.

I agree fit & finish are the first thing to go followed by lost titles, keys and kickstarter pawls.

[Stev-o]

I bought my daughter an S65 [with a big bore kit!]  Cant beat Honda.

[Terry in Australia]

I like Steve's S65, reminds me that I need to get my CL90 going. I taught myself to ride when I was 8 on my big sister's C50 in 1968, and loved it. Those little Honda engines were always abused, rarely had their 1 litre of oil changed, but always started and ran. While I'm not a big fan of riding slow moving scooters in traffic with morons in cars all around me, if I had to have a scooter, it would have to be an old Honda.

[faux fiddy]

I've put 8,000 miles on my Helix in a year. Changed the oil every 1,000 or so and replaced two tires. I have brake pads and shoes it needs and it needs exhaust gaskets from changing the tire, and the valved need adjusted, which looks easy. Other than that it requires little other maintenance, goes 75mph ang gets 70mpg.

[Alan F.]

Have you ridden 2up on the Helix?

[Bankerdanny]

In Chicago to be able to park a scooter/moped on the sidewalk it has to be under 50cc's. I don't think they care about the model, just the size of the engine. My buddy has an '80 or '81 Passport that his mom bought new and never rode. He got it from her a few years ago and it has about 1500 miles on it. It's a fun and simple little bike, although over the sidewalk limit.

I get what people are saying about sticking with Honda, but scooters are huge outside the US and many use parts that interchange with the old 4-stroke Honda engine. Plus, she won't likely want to ride a small scooter for ever, so I wouldn't dismiss all the non-Japanese made scooters.

My first bike was a 1960's Suzuki K10, an 80cc 2-stroke. It would do close to 60 mph with my 140 or so lbs on it. It looked a lot like a smaller 2-stroke Honda Dream.

[spotty]

get a big capacity ( 200cc ) manual 2 stroke vespa, then get bits that make it go like stink.....big carbs, big bore kits ( a mate of mine even had a twin carb conversion on his - stock one on the crank and another one on the barrel ), expansion chambers, ignition units

seriously though, new ( 4 stroke ) vespas and lambrettas (  rebranded as royal alloy and others ) are probably the best of the lot, reliable in a way that the 2 strokes weren't and will hold their value and finish longer than any of the chinese stuff and are comparable price wise with any of the jap stuff and look better into the bargain

[RAFster122s]

Having gotten back into Motorcycles again after picking up a $500 beaten sun baked old 81 C70 Passport in Parakeet yellow.

Guess what inexpensive paint is a perfect match to Parakeet Yellow? I mean exact match when I say it is a perfect match.
Rust-Oleum oil based quart of yellow. Used to cost $10-11 a can.
You have to thin it a lot to spray it but you can also thin it some and brush it on with a good quality brush and as long as you are curing it in 70f and above and letting it cure out it is a Very durable paint. If you thin it for brushing would can put a couple coats in in the recommended window. Or you can do like what was happening several years back... People we're painting cars and other stuff by hand sanding between cured coats and taking quite a bit of time to paint but they would give it 4 thinned coats and I don't think they samlnded every coat at least the first coue. But their sanding was flattening the finish like a color sand would. The final coat given just a little less thinner if temps were going to be above 70 during a 6-8 hour window. The paint given at least 3-4 days before the very very fine color sanding and polish of the finish. You have a brushed on paint job that no one will realize it is Rust-Oleum unless you told them or recognized the shade and had seen articles or the like.
You sand to 6-800 grit color sanding then you buff/polish with a good 3M or similar machine buffing/polishing compound for new paint.
At the time this came out over 10 year ago the paint, stirring sticks, thinner, mixing buckets, tape and brushes set you back $100-150 and $100 pack of two grades of automotive wet and dry silicone carbide sandpaper and then you needed about $20 of 3M polishing/buffing compound and another $7 for foam pad for polishing or $30 if you didn't have the drill mounted base. So, around $125-175 anyone could paint their car by brush for $200 ballpark total cost of materials. Don't know if they ever added an estimate for sore back, shoulders, and hands...

The C70 is a fun one, I look like a freaking circus bear on mine but * do not care what others think in that regard and I can laugh at myself riding it as I know it has to be comical looking and I will laugh with them and they can laugh all they want. I will not allow them to call me names or disparage me, but they are welcome to laugh at me. You do not want to piss off a circus bear.

As far as Honda motor scooter versus not. Small Hondas often have higher HP per CC until you reach a point of 100cc and larger. The Lifan motors are good but many clone motors do not even hold a candle to Honda motors in their consistent long life. Do not expect any Chinese motor to hold up for years and years. There are exceptions but those exceptions are usually very expensive.

[Terry in Australia]

Geezus David, what the fcuk brought that on?

[RAFster122s]

PTSD anger issues lately in spades... Insurance company issues and doctor issues and financial BS. It was bad enough I called my psychiatrist to say, I need to talk to you soon. He called me later that day. I moved my appointment up to his soonest available which is week from Monday and I am on "standby" for any appointments that might open up. Funny thing is I have been in a bad 18 month depression spiral and I had to stop my meds for 2 months and I am getting triggered since I began taking the meds in early January and my depression is greatly improved. It blows my mind that while I feel better and more like myself I am really having trouble getting triggered by the handful of things that give me PTSD over reactions.

I am fed up with bullies and I am approaching a breaking point. I would seriously do what I wrote were that to happen. I am an easy going guy but I haven't had issues with getting triggered weekly if not nearly daily in a very long time.  The past few months have been hell getting triggered sometimes daily in things I am trying to manage with insurance company and doctor screwups.
Oddly enough my psychiatrist told me about the meds for trauma and PTSD and bad enough I welcomed him to prescribe them.to see if they helped.
My doctor put me on them and doctors and researchers have. NO clue how they work but they do help some people.... He said they don't really know either how they affect the body to help with trauma and PTSD sufferers to not have triggered as often...
. But hey, anything to help my severe sleep issues, I frequently go 36 hours without sleep even taking prescribed sleeping pills.


You do NOT want to make me mad lately, I don't like me when I'm mad and I try to like myself.
I have had to hang up or turn it walk another way as I am afraid knowing how much damage I can do. I really am afraid of hurting someone or just going off on someone that pisses me off. Disrespect is one of my triggers. I am f___g scary when my anger reaches rage. I haven't hurt anyone ever in that mode but what are you gonna do? Cannot live in a psych ward as you don't deal with your triggers... Because they (the triggers) are still there.

Had a pair of smelly descriptive pigs take a run at me a couple weeks ago now and my 9mm would have just pissed them off. The second one who charged at me or was going to take a very close pass at me as I was expecting him to take a full gallop tusk to my lower leg as he passed. These damn things are dangerous and people go, aren't they cute. Hell no, these things can hospitalize you without breaking a sweat and you better being carry a rifle or 357 Magnum or 44Magnum or you aren't gonna stop them but just piss them off and cause them to attack you with even more ferocity.
So, yeah I carry and I have PTSD anger issues. I am not a threat...
I never reach for a weapon when angry, only have once in my life have I done so and it was enough upon reflection I am glad God had me take it home the weekend befire...
and fortunately it was not there, took it home the weekend before. In college dorm we lived in , roomed with my brother at university I was electronic engineering and he was premed. The guys in this party orient dorm would do #$%* because they could. Bullies and we ignored it and didn't drink and do drugs like many of them did. The called the dorm Animal House for a reason. Fall semester 1980
I had been taking archery and my compound bow was in the closet until weekend prior. They were raising hell and I had failed to complete an assignment for drafting as I knew what everything was as I could picture it but the deadline time came and I worked up until the last minute and was a full illustration short of completing the assignment. I knew it but guys were coming asking me if drawings were right as they knew I could turn the image around in my mind and I knew this stuff inside out. Just getting the drawings down with no HS experience in drafting was a mistake.
So, that night after eating dinner and returning to my dorm.during finals week I was stressed out and they were partying and shooting firecrackers in the hallway. Well they had the brilliant idea to shove a firecracker under the door. Closets were on both side of just inside the door. I was in my small cube closet putting things away and had my jeans on but little else when I hear the piisstt of the fuse and look over and it goes off with the closet door amplifying that explosion into my right ear. I have hearing damage today from that event. That triggered me as I had been bullied and I'm 0-120mph on the anger scale. I reached for my bow. And would have shot some or drawn on them I tear the door open and one guy oblivious to the bull#$%* these pranksters were doing is passing and I verbally tear into him. I see the hallway is cleared of everyone from before. That stopped the fireworks.
The head RA and I had discussion about 15bminutes later. The hall RA was nowhere to be found. They had shaving cream lines down the hall and mustard and ketchup packets exploded along the same areas. They had started trashing the place.

That is the only time in my life I ever reached for a weapon in anger

. I have carried a knife since I was 16 and usually carry 2 or 3 as * like knives. I know how to use them tactically as well.So,not kinda scares me too...
Never once have I reached for or pulled a weapon in someone, so it isn't in my nature to hurt someone else anymore.
42 years without hurting someone else or getting in a fight  and never in trouble with the police ever. Only time I was ever in the back of a police car was after an accident giving the officer statements.


Sorry guys, I am having a hard time...could use your prayers.

[Terry in Australia]

Wow. Take it easy mate, we all have issues of one sort or another, we just have to deal with it as best we’re able, and guns and knives aren’t helpful, so put them away. Have a think about what advice your shrink gives you when you go to see him (or her) and try to follow that advice until you see them next time. Hang in there mate, if you think your life is sh1tty, think of all those poor buggers in Ukraine who are getting bullied by pricks lobbing bombs on them. There’s always someone worse off than us.

[RAFster122s]

fully aware of that as I have been following the ukraine situation…
i don’t understand why i am having this lately. i wont anyone else. i am self destructive, as I turn stuff inside and it causes me health issues. maybe I just have been stuffing too much down and it is forcing its way out now…
never pretty to watch happen and much less experience…

having a javelina make your knees shake really gives you an adrenaline boost that that takes a while to burn off…

almost like other things triggering the fight or flight response…


I pray for Ukraine daily and the people there. I also pray for Putin, that God soften his heart and he would repent.

This is likely a religious war, look at Russian Orthodox church and it's equivalence of Rome and Jerusalem...
The Russian Orthodox church's equivalency to Jerusalem is Kiev. What have they done in Kiev, circled it and they haven't shelled it into oblivion or really bombed much...

Friend had connected these pieces...makes sense. Russian mobsters are respectful of the Russian Orthodox church...in same way Itian and American Mafias have the Roman Catholic church loose support. They would do things for the church and yet them at same cultural allegiance parallels with rmRussian organized crime.  Recall Putin wears a cross and has stated he was baptized in secret years ago when it was the USSR.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow,_third_Rome

Look up in Wikipedia Kievan 'Rus

Also look at Wikipedia Holy Rus (Holy Russia) and then when you look at St Andrews Church in Kiev you get some interesting history lesson as well...

Read and see what conclusions you draw...
It is interesting theory and has some merit based on what is occurring. He went after strategic targets but he also went afterr Kiev and has been largely kid gloves with that city.

David

[Alan F.]

I'm glad you're still with us, still posting here and still able to talk about things that aren't easy. It's nice to read happy, easy stuff when someone posts it, but most of our lives aren't made of happy or easy all the time.

[MauiK3]

Here on Maui, the rules are such that a Honda Ruckus requires a motorcycle license. The good news is that it makes the riding test easy to pass, the Ruckus is very easy to throw around. I watched a guy pass the test on a Sportster, he threw it around like it weighed 200 pounds, very impressive. I watched another guy fail on a 250 Nighthawk, he hit cones doing the weaving.

[Kelly E]

Here on Maui, the rules are such that a Honda Ruckus requires a motorcycle license. The good news is that it makes the riding test easy to pass, the Ruckus is very easy to throw around. I watched a guy pass the test on a Sportster, he threw it around like it weighed 200 pounds, very impressive. I watched another guy fail on a 250 Nighthawk, he hit cones doing the weaving.

After I got through my cancer treatments I had to get my motorcycle license again. I took it with 4 other people. They all owned Harley's but rented Yamaha BW200 bikes to take the test on. I used my 84' Honda Sabre with fairing and bags. Those people barely passed the test with so many mistakes. The instructor was giving out scores at the end and asked me to wait until the others had gone. He didn't want to embarrass them because I got a perfect score. He said that people with Harley's often rent the little bikes because they can't pass the test on their own bikes and many of them will crash their Harleys before the end of summer.
Our state used to have a law that said if you were going to ride bikes bigger than 500cc you had to take the test on a bike of at least 500cc. I don't know why the law was repealed but there's a lot of wrecked Harleys out there these days.

[Alan F.]

I suppose more wrecked Harleys means fewer Used Harleys to compete with new bike sales. Hopefully those riders wear some good gear and can walk into a dealership to try again when that insurance check arrives.

I took my test on a Chinese copy of a Honda XL200, it was very new and nimble compared to the poorly maintained 250 Nighthawks they had.

[Terry in Australia]

I never took a test. In 1980 I lost my car "Probationary" license (no demerit points back then, commit any offence and your license was cancelled) for speeding. (55 in a 50 zone with nothing either side of my car but fields, it was a set-up) I went back to the RTA (DMV) to get it back at the end of the cancellation period and they said that I had to do the test again, but I didn't have time, so I asked about a bike license as I was in the Army and getting posted interstate.

They said "sure, bring in your Army bike license, and we'll give you a full license" Woohoo! I went back to work, pulled my Army license out of my wallet, typed "B1" (the motorcycle code) on it, signed for my commanding officer (I knew that he wouldn't mind, probably...) and took it back to the RTA, and was given a full license. In the intervening 42 years, I've only been booked once, for turning left into a street with "No left turn from 0800 to 0900, at 0802......)

Being that I like Harleys as much as I like Honda's I won't hate on them or their riders, but what happens here a lot is that old guys who haven't ridden a bike since their 20's (marriage, kids, house, divorce, retirement, etc, the usual things) will still have their full bike licenses so instead of re-learning on a small bike, they use some of their retirement savings to buy a shiny new $30K Harley and crash it, and if they survive intact, give up riding bikes.

We see lots of crashed Harleys here where "Satans Retirees" have thrown them down the road and the insurance companies sell them on for parts. Some have so little damage I wonder why they weren't just repaired, and others are absolutely mangled and I wonder what can even be salvaged when the engine cases are smashed, I often wonder what became of the rider in that situation? I don't know what the current road toll stats are, but at one stage the most dangerous demographic wasn't the 18-25 year olds, (the usual suspects) but the "Over 50's".

One of the problems with the disproportionately high Harley crash stats here is that old folks returning to riding after many years here seem to think that Harleys are the only game in town, when BMW and the Jap big 4 all make good comfy touring bikes for old farts to ride around on, but (and maybe because they've watched too much "Sons of anarchy") they all seem to gravitate to Harleys or the occasional Indian. (I've seen a few crashed Indians too, but in much smaller numbers) I've owned bikes constantly since 1969 and ride regularly so I don't think that refresher training is necessary for me, but for guys who rarely ride, I think they should have to do annual refresher training, or revert back to "Learner" status and only be allowed to ride a small bike, or a scooter.

That might sound harsh for folks who think that they should be allowed to ride whatever they can afford, but in some cases riding a smaller bike is safer and may well keep them alive while they get used to riding after not having any saddle time in many years, and due to these old farts contributing to the states motorcycle death toll or serious injury numbers, it affects all motorcyclists, we already pay an extra "Third Party" insurance premium due to the disproportionate numbers of motorcycle to car injuries here, not to mention the additional motorcycle insurance premiums so personally, I'd rather see old farts who haven't ridden in years go thru the whole "Learner/Probationary/Full License" process rather just be allowed to buy 800 pound Harley or Indian land barges that are difficult to manage even for experienced riders.    

[Stev-o]

I took my test on a Chinese copy of a Honda XL200...

I took my road test in '81 with my '78 Kawasaki 1000.  Back then in Texas, the cop followed you in a car while doing the road test.  Highly doubt that is how it is done today!

[ekpent]

Got my first motorcycle endorsement when I was 16 on my Suzuki 125 enduro. Just had to ride around a few cones in a parking lot and show I could stop. When I was a senior in High School in 1977 I had a GT750 Water Buffalo. Let's just say that after I graduated out of school I got into a little trouble with it that did not end well for the bike.    I moved out of my parents house when I was still in school my senior year. My mom stopped at my place and saw the bike and started crying that I was going to kill myself. The lesson I learned was "always listen to mamma !!