Topic: Turbo Charged CB550 Landspeed Attempt

[BomberMann650]

As the title states.  This thread will exist for my LSR build. 
By the end of August 2023, would like to have a 650-SC-CF/ACF dual entry at Bonneville.
Why a sidecar?  Well...
My dad expressed some interest in attending the bub trials.
Like a damn Christmas miracle the guy takes a interest in his sons passions.
So father and son team are going for a speed record.

There's a few questions I wanted to ask the forum.

1- Airtech Streamlining - they don't publish their pricing.  Their dustbin looks nice.  But is the money worth the labor savings?
2- Honing/Reamers for valve guides, what works without breaking the bank?
3- valve seat cutter recommendation
4- Blueprinting clearances for racing
5- who does crank balancing in the Pac NW?
6- Is cyclex still rockin through the pandemic?  Dynoman Performance?  Will need reliable vendors when the time comes.
7- are there electronic fuel shut offs for carbed bikes?
8- oxygenated fuels - ballpark compression for high octane unleaded?
9- did paulages find out if the 550 rods fit the 650 crank?

The plan come summer is to get back in the workshop.
Dig spare parts off the shelf and start cutting material for the chassis.

Mix match engine and frame.  Bloo's original 550 engine cases, shoehorned into the spare yamaha 750 frame.
Figure out the fork and swingarm for a long and low salt bike.  Weld on mounts for the hack and build out the prone platform for passenger. 
The sidecar rules allow for use of the outlawed dustbin fairing.  So that drops the cD by a lot.  Will fashion something to shield the monkey too.  Can't recall the speed at which ground effect comes into play.

I won't go deep into a wish list of parts.  Most of this will be purpose built anyway.  Plan is to push the limit of what can be built in a shed.  Inside the limits of class rules.

[Alan F.]

Subscribed. Sell overpriced t-shirts to fund your build. Make mine in 3xl.

Perhaps have a look at www.craigvetter.com and www.vetterowners.com for info? Lots of sidecar guys on that 2nd link.

Maybe look this guy up? https://www.mopedarmy.com/forums/read.php?1,4478927

[BomberMann650]

Thanks Alan.
I've perused the vetter aerodynamics book.  Good stuff.  Anymore these days the solidworks guys have it easy.  A dustbin really has an advantage over the usual streamlining.  Reducing frontal area and punching through the air like a bullet
Although the rules on dustbin front wheel clearance is a little vague in the rulebook.  Do i have to form it two inches around the front tire.  Or can i draw out a taper and pull from the Poteet school of streamliner?

The idea of selling freak flag merch has crossed my mind before.  Getting a Patreon fund couldn't hurt.

Now that the old man is on board, will see how eager he is to spend his retirement.  I can afford most materials and tooling to get things built. 
Already written off the idea things like billet crank and rods.  That kinda money could be better spent on a 200mph capable bike

The speed to beat for a cb550 is 114 from a 650-MCG - The lady who holds it will be safe from me.  Long list of changes falls into the altered category.
The sidecar class is open.  So the plan is to build a bike that sets the bar respectably high. 
Earning a 125+ approval would be an absolute win.

Theoretically, its feasible.

[BomberMann650]

Okay, so i did some math last night.  Not that i recommend doing math in the wee hours.
Ended up with a preliminary displacement figure for the build.

Dynoman 11.5:1 60mm race piston
Cb650 crank stroke 55.8mm
The formula (0.7854x60²x55.8÷1000)x4=631.08cc

Pm'd Paulages about his build.  But he used the 650 top end.  Which i wasn't planning for myself.
Asked if the original 550 cylinders were tall enough to handle the added stroke.

Now that I'm researching this deeper, I'm second guessing the stroker crank idea.
Would be much less trouble to just go with the 50.6mm original stroke, and get power from the bore and compression ratio.

Stronger rods.  What was that about gsxr1000 rods fitting the sohc4 cranks?

And yes, do plan on getting some oxygenated race gas.  The great white dyno has proven its worth.

It should all work out fine.,
 Cheers FRANK

[bwaller]

GSXR1000 rods are too wide for the 550/650 crank so some machining needed there. There are also two lengths and in both cases Suzuki bearings will need to be used. Personally I would prefer long rods over short for a bit more dwell at TDC. You'll need 650 cyl with the extra 650 stroke, or at least would make the most sense. 550 rods are pretty good, but updated rod bolts are wise as a minimum 

[BomberMann650]

Thanks for the insight bwaller.
Guess i could save myself the hassle just making power from the head.

When you say 550 rods are good.  Just how good?  Solid under rhe higher compression forces?
Will they take a good drink from a nitrous bottle? 
Are there 550 rods other than carillo to search for?

I have so many extra 550 rods I could polish and balance a decent set on the cheap.

[johno]

sufferin catfish Alan, 3 XL your a big whore. You need one of Mikes 1,000 cc kits he especially designed for the big men sheds. lol
Don't worry mate, I shouldn't be saying anything, I would need a 1000 kit plus supercharger 

[BomberMann650]

Don't feel bad alan.  My riding gear is 3xl sized too.  Damn designers tailor the fit too small!

Now i gotta go look up the speed to beat on 1000 altered fuel classics.  Thanks johno

[BomberMann650]

172.876 on a classic blown gas bike - not bad

1000ACBG           141.292   Zetterquist K.   Harley-Davidson   2012 1000APSCBG   153.841   Zetterquist “.   Harley-Davidson   2014 1000MPSCBG   160.338   Horst Jr. D.   Kawasaki   2014 1000MCBG           172.876   Horst D.           Kawasaki   2013

[Alan F.]

Oh I don't feel bad, I work a tech job and I'm not very active. Eleven years ago I was 220lbs and ran 5 miles around the reservoir here 3 times a week. I've just got to start doing that again and start eating what I want instead of what's easy. I'm 2" shorter than Schwarzenegger and about as heavy, he'd need My clothes & boots but not My motazygle, too slow.
My leathers are just XL from those days, if I'm riding this year I'll need to drop a few pounds anyway. I'll be finishing the red CB160 and my 250 Nighthawk basket case before spring, I don't have the need for speed after driving the work vans over 600K highway miles in the last decade, it's back roads and cross country off highway that's calling to me.

No 1000cc blocks for me, but I've held one in my hands and they are Beautiful. Maybe I'd find the cash to pick up 2 or 3 if Mike made more, he's local and I could avoid shipping.

[RAFster122s]

Gee, body shaming and size shaming…
I used to measure 6’4.25” tall but now I am around 6’3.5” tall and most of my height is in my torso. Spinal deterioration has absorbed part of my height…
I won’t talk about my weight and would prefer you not either…

I won’t win any races and I won’t try to. My 650 Vstrom and my Mini Cooper S are plenty fast for me…

[Alan F.]

No shame in my game. I'm comparing me at 41 to me at 51. Hijack ended.

[BomberMann650]

Silver lining, if I buy my race leathers at my current size, they'll be roomy when i drop 35 lbs!

Rolling resistance isn't a bad thing at Bonneville.

[bwaller]

If there is any doubt Carrillo's are the answer! Cheap insurance considering.

[BomberMann650]

If there is any doubt Carrillo's are the answer! Cheap insurance considering.

Certainly - just a budget consideration.

The bottom line is starting to look like a mortgage payment

[bwaller]

Welcome to this world!

[BomberMann650]

Welcome to this world!

Hahaha thanks
Got some great advice on how to become a millionaire in land speed racing.
It's easy.
Start with $2million!

Meanwhile over here im tryin to make horsepower with 35 bucks.

Stayed up the past couple nights doing some projections.  Thanks to speedracer741's cutaway port photo, I'm able to better assess the issues with the cylinder head.
Wallace racings exhaust calculator and the dynoman 335 cam specs got a run through too.
Someone in the archives claimed the stock 550 rods were good to 75hp and 11,000 rpm.  So those will get a spa day before going into the motor.

Definitely gonna need a lathe and a welder to pull this off.

[BomberMann650]

Running through a checklist of racing "must haves"

Kill switch lanyard
Fuel shut off solenoid
Safety wire
Firesleeve

When it dawns on me...i have to wire the sonofagun.

Spending $450 on an m-unit doesn't seem smart.  Ultima is still meant for street bikes (and not as elegantly simple as motogadget)

Already decided on another OMP vreg and a lifepo4 battery.  Which is the easy part.

Getting power from battery, to igition module (probably dyna2000 unless there a different map adjustable system out there)

Through a fuel solenoid, and a kill switch....simple...yeah.

The m-unit makes it so straight forward, but i would only be using a fraction of its ability.

Suggestions?

[Old Scrambler]

I have a pair of electric solenoids in the spares pile.................But.......I don't think they will flow enough to keep the carb-bowls happy I use a cable/lever actuator setup on my twin mechanical petcocks when competing in the fuel classes. Holding the throttle WFO for more than a mile may require enlarged petcock/carburetor flow capacity.

Advice............work on your chassis and handlebar ergonomics before installing ANYTHING on the bars. Your final design will determine wiring locations and cable lengths. You may wish to use a dummy-weight versus a real MONKEY. Tire and wheel choices should be settled before designing the fenders. Consider sourcing a wheel/tire combo from a scooter for the chair.

SC units need torque and a super-low profile to set records on the salt. Check fuel vendors for oxygenated gas. It was not available at the 2021 BMST. If you bring your own, its considered FUEL.
 

[BomberMann650]

Thanks old scrambler.

There are some fairly large solenoid valves out there (1/2"+).  It was an idea a buddy was mulling over.
Thanks for the clarification on fuel class.  I didn't spend much time sealing tanks.  The stewards sent me off to fill less officially official offices.

The sidecar will be the last portion of the build phase.  At the rate materials are adding up.  Im not even sure about the added expense of streamlining for the main bike. Much less the hack and additional class/rider registrations.

Still stuck on electric circuitry.  Fuse box would be the cheapest.  But i like the way m-unit makes power distribution simple.

[BomberMann650]

Question for the altered build criteria.

With the +10% over stock wheelbase requirement.  How should that be determined on a mix n match motor/frame bike?

The cb is a bit shorter than the xs.  So determining swingarm length is a head scratcher

[Old Scrambler]

If you're exceeding the OEM wheelbase by more than 10% the bike will be in the 'A' class. That does not mean you HAVE to exceed the 10% rule.

I tend to want my chassis to be VERY reliable for high-speed stability. I compete in the M-class with a slightly raked front and extended rear. By mixing brands of motor and chassis you are already in the A-class. Concentrate on being low, narrow, and strong enough to avoid unwanted flex......especially in any kind of side-wind. Full suspension on bike and sidecar?

[BomberMann650]

Thanks Scrambler.
Have we met at the bub trials?

Gusseted the xs frame for the cafe build.  Can continue to build on that for the salt racer.  Hunting eBay for gsxr front ends to press the cognito moto steer tube into.  Have a pretty burly rear shock spare from the bombardier as well.  Its a really nice shock, so just have to decide on the swingarm linkage. 

Haven't mulled over the sidecar much.  Still have the oem honda shocks so I guess i could spring the hack.  But the geometry to do that is uncharted territory to me.

[Old Scrambler]

BUB in '09 as spectator...........'11 & '13 with TRIUMPH Cub record holder. BMST in '16, '18, '19 & '21 with CB750 and a few records.

Anything less than the design of the side-hack mounted to Eva's electric streamliner is suspect. Scott Guthrie knows a thing or two about side-hacks.

Short forks & shocks with minimal travel but stiff springs and heavy rebound should be preferred. Low profile tires are a must to reduce side-flex. Set the bike and hack to run almost on the bike wheels when at speed.

The same 3 rules for golf apply to LSR...........something about keeping your head down.

[BomberMann650]

We may have bumped into each other during the 21 bmst.  Scrutineering was a frenzy.  Those first couple of evenings were tiring.  Hard having to drag my butt down to carmens for the apres coursé social hour.