Author Topic: Turbo Charged CB550 Landspeed Project  (Read 98714 times)

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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Turbo Charged CB550 Landspeed Project
« Reply #375 on: September 01, 2025, 06:56:29 AM »
There is a lot that could be tried on this setup.

A couple of things i wish i had done over winter.  Heck, finishing the body work and running partially streamlined would have made the bike more slippery and fetched a record.  Running gas class would have fetched a record too.  Wouldn't have one and a half pails of race gas sitting around either
The electrex charging system is sitting at the top of the list still. Most future developments are going to require wattage.  Even without the stator swap.  Single point wmi could have been useful.

Had the same problem as last year, but now with boost lag!  Fuel delivery at part throttle opening goes out the window.

Idle jet and accelerator pump are in working order.  The rich gas needle had to be raised to allow a successful launch. Pretty sure i packed the alkyhaul needle bul couldn't be arsed to dig it all out of the tote.  With the tiny turbo, the alky needle and 135 main were able to deliver a rich mix with help from the thunderjet.
The bigger 4 series turbo changed the whole dynamic.  Also had a 147.5 main in the tote.  Same excuse as above.
Such a trip trying to sort out this issue.  Unlike the naturally aspirated bikes that clearly present their fuel issues.  This one either runs, or doesn't. Theres no stuttery shake down or blubbery slow up to hear and feel.

Am grateful to all who have helped and offered help.  Even the stranger who picked up a broom and swept the tarp while i donned the suit snd boots.

 


Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Turbo Charged CB550 Landspeed Project
« Reply #376 on: September 01, 2025, 08:45:39 AM »
Well, that confirms the airflow is definitely not problem.

Chalky white, unleaded fuel

Offline scottly

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Re: Turbo Charged CB550 Landspeed Project
« Reply #377 on: September 01, 2025, 09:05:47 AM »

The bigger 4 series turbo changed the whole dynamic.
You have fallen victim to the Law of More, as in if a little bit is good, More bigger must be better. ;) The new turbo is too big, which is why you had to rev the engine so high to make boost. Chevy did this intentionally with the Corvair, so it self limited the boost to 5-7 pounds without a waste gate, but this also made for a lot of turbo lag. Newer designs used smaller turbos which spooled up much quicker, and then limited the boost with the waste gate. Also, your exhaust manifold has a lot of volume; you want the hot exhaust gases to expand in the turbo, not the manifold. Look at the typical turbo header, which is a simple log manifold.

You may also be fighting a case of Bigcarbitis. When the carb is too big, there isn't enough air flowing through the carb to pull fuel up from the bowl at low engine speeds, so the jetting must be increased to compensate, then at higher revs when the airflow increases the mix goes rich. The typical scenario was the guy that put an 850CFM Holley on his stock 283 Chevy. You could make it work, but it never worked well over a range of RPM and load. ;) For comparison, the Chevy turbo made 180 HP from 164 cubic inches using a 1 3/8" (35mm) carb, that was originally used on the first Corvettes with the straight six.

My two cents....   
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Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Turbo Charged CB550 Landspeed Project
« Reply #378 on: September 01, 2025, 09:50:31 AM »
Bomber.............your long winter project has begun ;)


whatever size of carb and turbo............the motor should run best on the bench with no more than 1-lb. of boost at FULL throttle. A somewhat smaller carb will likely improve everything EXCEPT wfo.
   
Are you sure that your fuel flow IDs are not restrictive?...........and at ANY amount of positve air-intake, the carb bowl MUST be sealed by connecting a small line between the air-box and the bowl-vent.

If the plugs look good at wfo, you will tend to go lean as you add boost. With no fuel supply restrictions, the thunder-jet may help. Just remember, its very difficult to tune for BEST performance at anything less than wfo :) :) :) :)
Dennis in Wisconsin
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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Turbo Charged CB550 Landspeed Project
« Reply #379 on: September 01, 2025, 11:03:18 AM »
Yeah.  I totally slept on the 3 series turby.  The little guy would have spooled much quicker.  And the majority of the efficiency map is comparable to the 4 series.  With the exception of low volume stall.
Have often wondered whats going on with the tm40 as the slide opens.  Might a 35mm CV carb be more user friendly?
The fuel system is among the biggest available.  Harley sized that can fit a pencil inside.  The float valve is the only restrictive bit.  Fit the biggest one that made sense.  Still took a lathe and collet chuck to make work.  There's an even bigger one but fitting it would be just as tricky.
Received some forceful recommendation to expand the float bowl from the resident hodaka racer.  His kit has big lines and big valve.  Still took that expanded bowl to have enough ready when he hit the time mile.

I may take the 4 series pipes and keep em in a box together.  Save for when the big bore is ready.  The waste gate came with its own stainless flanges the other bits are easy to hook up. 

Really need to do something with the body work hanging in the barn.

Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Turbo Charged CB550 Landspeed Project
« Reply #380 on: September 01, 2025, 01:41:58 PM »
Finally caved and bought an ultrasonic cleaner.

And 3 flavors of solutions.  Especially the rust remover.

It does the thing, will see how many miles it gets.

Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Turbo Charged CB550 Landspeed Project
« Reply #381 on: September 01, 2025, 01:52:10 PM »
Yamaha Carb-Cleaner mixed 50-50 with non-alcohol gas works for me.
Dennis in Wisconsin
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Offline scottly

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Re: Turbo Charged CB550 Landspeed Project
« Reply #382 on: September 01, 2025, 09:51:44 PM »
Yamaha Carb-Cleaner mixed 50-50 with non-alcohol gas works for me.
I hope you do that outside!!! There was a guy in Phoenix that had some really greasy oily clothes, so he dumped a bunch of gas into the washing machine. The resulting explosion blew the windows out of his apartment. :o
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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Turbo Charged CB550 Landspeed Project
« Reply #383 on: September 02, 2025, 06:32:12 PM »
Huh, looking at the dyna2000 features.  Says the orange wire can be used as a "shift kill" for WFO upshifting.  Maybe a quick shift kit isn't out of reach.

Can anyone confirm?

Offline scottly

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Re: Turbo Charged CB550 Landspeed Project
« Reply #384 on: September 02, 2025, 07:42:30 PM »
Huh, looking at the dyna2000 features.  Says the orange wire can be used as a "shift kill" for WFO upshifting.  Maybe a quick shift kit isn't out of reach.


Why? It's a land speed racer, not a drag racer. ;D
What jets were you running, both pilot and main? What's the largest main jet you've tried so far? Also, how much boost did you make with the smaller turbo?
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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Turbo Charged CB550 Landspeed Project
« Reply #385 on: September 03, 2025, 06:09:08 AM »
Huh, looking at the dyna2000 features.  Says the orange wire can be used as a "shift kill" for WFO upshifting.  Maybe a quick shift kit isn't out of reach.
Why? It's a land speed racer, not a drag racer. ;D
What jets were you running, both pilot and main? What's the largest main jet you've tried so far? Also, how much boost did you make with the smaller turbo?
Quickshifter came to consideration since everyone was running the short course this time.  My shifting technique has become quite lazy and the new turbo didn't like it.

37.5 pilot jet and 135 main jet.  Idle afr reading was good.  Needle and needle jet inadequate for midrange.  Never got around to increasing the main.  Could the 147 have kept up?  Was the needle jet main holder an issue?  Idk yet.
With the exception of the needle and thunderjet setting, these were what ran with the tiny turbo.
The little turbo got wickedly hot trying to force feed 8psi boost.  And top end wasn't exactly there for want of airflow.
New turbo was much cooler as it produced 9psi.  But the turbine stall was a nuisance.


Offline scottly

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Re: Turbo Charged CB550 Landspeed Project
« Reply #386 on: September 03, 2025, 12:50:32 PM »
Did you keep the 135 main when you added the Thunderjet, or did you reduce the size? I would have at least tried the 147 main. I've found in the past that if the needle jet is too small, increasing the size of the main stops having any effect after a certain point. Also, I prefer to jet from the top down, as in start with the main, then the needle, etc. In your case you are looking for max power, and if low speed drive-ability suffers a touch, so be it; you're not riding the bike to the bar. ;)
Was 8 pounds the max the little turbo could blow?
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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Turbo Charged CB550 Landspeed Project
« Reply #387 on: September 04, 2025, 08:13:42 AM »
135 stayed in all week.  Was going the right direction with the addition of thunderjet opening on the last run.  The the wardrobe malfunction grounded me and had to pack it in.
The 147 might have helped.  Still haven't double checked the needle jet size.

The little turbo was able to spool 8 psi, as was the bigger one.  The little was probably working its butt off with the amount of issues i found in the old waste gate and plenum.  Big turbo would probably do 12+ if i could get the motor to a full song.
When the 4 series peaked 10 and the gate opened was an exciting time.  Clicked into a gear and the cams midrange punched in.  Bike sounded great.  Just needed more fuel to sustain it.

Offline scottly

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Re: Turbo Charged CB550 Landspeed Project
« Reply #388 on: September 04, 2025, 09:20:14 AM »
Do you still have access to a dyno? First thing I would do is try the 147 and see how much it affects the WFO AFR: if it improves but is still too lean, go bigger. Leave the Thunderjet out of the equation for the time being. Also, after running that lean under load and boost, it might be a good idea to do a compression and/or leak-down test.
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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Turbo Charged CB550 Landspeed Project
« Reply #389 on: September 04, 2025, 07:08:12 PM »
I have some options for dyno.  Between my office and the local f.i.m. team shop.  Its just scheduling.  If i had been smart, i would've planned a stop in St. George before going to wendover.
I was gonna poke the borescope down the hole when i get the time.

Offline Don R

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Re: Turbo Charged CB550 Landspeed Project
« Reply #390 on: September 05, 2025, 09:40:03 AM »
 I was warned that the old ATP zenith/bendix carb didn't have enough float bowl, some of the drag racers used to make an auxiliary float bowl to add volume.
  I was thinking the Mikuni carb for a Harley would surely flow enough fuel for a turbo bike at two thirds of the CC's, maybe not. Somewhere I saw an add-on float bowl spacer to deepen a Mikuni float bowl but if the float valve isn't flowing enough, it only delays the point at which it goes lean. With the fuel pump, a boost reference pressure regulator might be helpful.
 Forgive me if I've posted this already.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2025, 09:42:26 AM by Don R »
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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Turbo Charged CB550 Landspeed Project
« Reply #391 on: September 05, 2025, 01:54:45 PM »
Mikuni doesn't offer a spacer kit for the hs40.  Mostly VM series.  Might be something to do with the accelerator pump. 
Not that i couldn't make one.  Just haven't found a proper mill for the workshop yet.  Would be easier to setup a remote bowl.
Had real estate issues with the fuel pump.  Could revisit it
When i get on a dyno, might be able to monitor float bowl levels via the thunder jet hose

Offline scottly

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Re: Turbo Charged CB550 Landspeed Project
« Reply #392 on: September 05, 2025, 09:01:19 PM »
You shouldn't need a bigger float bowl if you have sufficient flow from the gas tank and petcock, and you shouldn't need a fuel pump if the bottom of the gas tank is above the float bowl. ;)
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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Turbo Charged CB550 Landspeed Project
« Reply #393 on: September 06, 2025, 06:33:46 PM »
The new carb company from the great state of Missouri has this offering.

36mm with powervalve/thunderjet.  The carb relies on a metering rod for adjustment.  I think thats similar to lectron carbs?
The price is appropriate for custom build carburetor.  No idea if it would solve the problem, or just take a bite out of any fuel-injection budget i could have.

The shape of the venturi is novel.  Skinny at the bottom

Offline scottly

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Re: Turbo Charged CB550 Landspeed Project
« Reply #394 on: September 06, 2025, 06:58:42 PM »
Sigh... Nate, just try the bigger main jets in the carb you have, and don't buy into the hype of stuff like "Thunderjets". ;) The skinny at the bottom thing is nothing new, and is to help with low throttle openings, like putting from bar to bar. All you care about is WFO performance. ;D
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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Turbo Charged CB550 Landspeed Project
« Reply #395 on: September 06, 2025, 07:47:09 PM »
Scott, you're right.
Finally made it to my weekend.
Working on other peoples bikes all the dang time really takes it out of me.
Side note, pingels 12v shifter system is pretty slick.

Offline scottly

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Re: Turbo Charged CB550 Landspeed Project
« Reply #396 on: September 06, 2025, 08:00:03 PM »
They make main jets up to 185 for your carb. ;D
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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Turbo Charged CB550 Landspeed Project
« Reply #397 on: September 06, 2025, 09:09:04 PM »
They make main jets up to 185 for your carb. ;D

I have enough undersized jets all i need are the drill bits haha

Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Turbo Charged CB550 Landspeed Project
« Reply #398 on: September 07, 2025, 11:29:40 AM »
Sunday Washday.  In between loads of laundry (responsible bachelor that i am).  Snuck away to the workshop for the weekend tinkering.

Looked in the box o carb bits and found my extra needle jet is a P-zero
Which may be smaller than the carb is supposed to have.  A 568 series Y-6 is on the parts diagram.  Still haven't opened the carb to look.  Got the scoop removed at least.
Biggest i can go with the 568 needle jet is a Z-6.  Don't know what that would do on the wideband scale.  Considering the ultimate target boost is more than double the last run attempt.  The biggest needle jet may not be a bad idea.
The little bit of correlative data i have is for the pilot.  A 2.5 step on pilot can net a whole number on the meter.  Recalibrated at 6600ft and 12.2 baro - it only gained 1/2 a point.  If that applies to the needle jet.  I have 4-5 whole numbers to make up for.  At half a bar of boost.  Of course, the pilot doesn't have an additional orifice screwed to it.

Put the borescope down the hole.  Nothing remarkable.  Maybe a little arc mark, some contact corrosion from the oiler ring when it was parked.  No sign of galling the wall or cracked ring landing.  1/2 mile of blasted heat was seemingly survivable.
Also cleaned and waxed the chain.  Turned the heater on in the shop, hopefully can get things above the dew point.  Otherwise i'll need a couple dri-z-air doodads in there.
Lastly, the rust remover solution for the ultrasonic is working a treat.  Cleaned the hazy grey off the float bowl, left behind by the degreaser.  And even in a dirtied state.  Still cleaned the rust off some old exhaust header nuts.

Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Turbo Charged CB550 Landspeed Project
« Reply #399 on: September 07, 2025, 11:39:31 AM »
and at ANY amount of positve air-intake, the carb bowl MUST be sealed by connecting a small line between the air-box and the bowl-vent.

Am not certain what you mean ol' scram.
Draw-through puts the carburetor out in the atmosphere.  With the compressor between the jets and the intake valve.  So the carb sees a significant amount of constant vacuum.
The carbs bowl vents have a 10" long hose connected to nothing right now. Should i have punched them into the scoop?  Not sure what that would do for fuel delivery.