Topic: Exhaust blowing water

[beemerbum]

Today, I went to the shop to fire up my '72 CB 750 K2on its centerstand. It was about 40 degrees as I started the bike. It had not run for about two months. When the bike fired up I walked away for a while as it sat there idling. When I looked at the floor beneath the bike, I noted water collecting on the cold floor under the area directly below the junction of header and muffler. These are DSS repops. I am assuming this is condensation coming from the little weepholes on the bottom of the pipes. I ran the bike long enough to where the water stopped as the pipes heated up. I think the lesson is to never ride it and put it away wet.

[HondaMan]

Right you are: the #2 killer of the pipes is those holes getting rusted shut from shorts rides and/or chainlube. This is/was the biggest killer of the #2 pipe, in particular. Once shut, the pieps will not blow that water out, so you have to ride 20 miles or more to dry them out.

[newday777]

Idling the bike in cold weather will not be good for your engine or exhaust. Do not start unless you can ride it at least an hour to fully heat the motor and exhaust and burn off all condensation.

[Don R]

 In 73 I killed my 500 pipes by starting it repeatedly all winter to freshen the fuel in the bowls.

[beemerbum]

Idling the bike in cold weather will not be good for your engine or exhaust. Do not start unless you can ride it at least an hour to fully heat the motor and exhaust and burn off all condensation.

Good advice all. Seeing that water on the floor really made it obvious that a good long ride is necessary

[pekingduck]

Seeing water on the ground from the drain holes is a good sign.  When you don't see it is when the problems start.  The owner's manual used to tell you to keep the drain holes clear.  Kind of like the drain tubes for a car's sunroof.

[newday777]

Seeing water on the ground from the drain holes is a good sign.  When you don't see it is when the problems start.  The owner's manual used to tell you to keep the drain holes clear.  Kind of like the drain tubes for a car's sunroof.

But.......... The problems start happening internally if you don't ride it and fully burn out that moisture in the motor and exhaust....... You will not see those problems, rust internally happening of the exhaust, stock or steel aftermarket, until the rust comes through the outer surfaces.

[Deltarider]

There is too much idling  Camshaft doesn't like it, the oil doesn't, the exhausts don't, the charging isn't even there... to cut a long story short: your bike hates it. Firing up during hibernation is not recommended. You may think you have a good reason for it, but... let's be honest... maybe it is just you longing to hear old faithful again...
Personally, I have best results with leaving the carbs in a natural state, which is wet, drain the bowls say every two months and - with the bowls empty - crank the engine a few turns to have underpressure clear the jets. Then let the bowls refill. I agitate my rear shocks a few times.
My experience with OEM exhausts is that they can last 75.000 kms, provided you abstain from short rides* and inspect those tiny drain holes say every 6 months or so.
*Not difficult in The Netherlands with more bicycles than inhabitants. General practice here is, that for a distance less than 5 miles, people prefer to cycle: no dressing up, no helmet needed.
See the bike below? Bought in the early 50s, it has been my grandad's dayly ride for decades. I inherited it. When I did a calculation the other day, I discovered - much to my surprise - that that bicycle has covered more miles than my motorcycle has: over 150.000 kms (95.000 mies). Except for tyres, chain and chainguard, everything is original.

[pekingduck]

Seeing water on the ground from the drain holes is a good sign.  When you don't see it is when the problems start.  The owner's manual used to tell you to keep the drain holes clear.  Kind of like the drain tubes for a car's sunroof.

But.......... The problems start happening internally if you don't ride it and fully burn out that moisture in the motor and exhaust....... You will not see those problems, rust internally happening of the exhaust, stock or steel aftermarket, until the rust comes through the outer surfaces.

Yes, true.  The condensation needs to burn away, but will take much longer if there are no drain holes.  Rust never sleeps.

[TwoTired]

Water is a by product of combustion.  Water, while comprised of combustible elements, is not combustible in the combined state.

So, when you run your engine , both the humidity in the intake air, and the combustion by products flow into your exhaust system.  When pipes cool down, this water condenses on the inside of the pipes to readily catalyze iron and oxygen into rust.

Water forms inside your engine too.  Piston ring blow by, its water byproduct, and crankcase ventilation humidity all put water inside your crankcase.  Again, during cooldown this water condenses on internal walls and trickles down into the oil supply.

If you see dew or frost outside,  there is condensation forming inside your pipes and engine every day there is no heating cycle to vaporize it, even in unheated garages.

You cannot burn water.  You can only encourage it to phase change to a gas with heat to be pushed out of its internal spaces.

I rather feel it is more important to get the water out of the crankcase than the exhaust pipes.  Milkshake oil is just an awful lubricant.  But, to get the condensate out, you need to thoroughly warm the whole bike to operating temperature.  And this can be near impossible to do, as there is no cooling fin regulation in our engines.  A stationary run takes forever to heat the entire engine/trans unit evenly and long enough to vaporize and eliminate the water inside, and will certainly overheat parts of it if air isn’t moved over the fins.

Consider these factors while you are trying to save your machine from the ravages of existence.

[calj737]

Water is a by product of combustion.  Water, while comprised of combustible elements, is not combustible in the combined state.

So, when you run your engine , both the humidity in the intake air, and the combustion by products flow into your exhaust system.  When pipes cool down, this water condenses on the inside of the pipes to readily catalyze iron and oxygen into rust.

Water forms inside your engine too.  Piston ring blow by, its water byproduct, and crankcase ventilation humidity all put water inside your crankcase.  Again, during cooldown this water condenses on internal walls and trickles down into the oil supply.

If you see dew or frost outside,  there is condensation forming inside your pipes and engine every day there is no heating cycle to vaporize it, even in unheated garages.

You cannot burn water.  You can only encourage it to phase change to a gas with heat to be pushed out of its internal spaces.

I rather feel it is more important to get the water out of the crankcase than the exhaust pipes.  Milkshake oil is just an awful lubricant.  But, to get the condensate out, you need to thoroughly warm the whole bike to operating temperature.  And this can be near impossible to do, as there is no cooling fin regulation in our engines.  A stationary run takes forever to heat the entire engine/trans unit evenly and long enough to vaporize and eliminate the water inside, and will certainly overheat parts of it if air isn’t moved over the fins.

Consider these factors while you are trying to save your machine from the ravages of existence.

It is this very reason that I bring all my bikes into the living room for the winter to have a nice, cozy winter wrapped in snuggly blankets sleeping at the foot of the fireplace hearth. A dutiful motorcycle lover would always treat their bikes that way!  Shame on those who leave their beloved in the dark, damp frozen abyss called an unconditioned garage!

[TwoTired]

It is this very reason that I bring all my bikes into the living room for the winter to have a nice, cozy winter wrapped in snuggly blankets sleeping at the foot of the fireplace hearth. A dutiful motorcycle lover would always treat their bikes that way!  Shame on those who leave their beloved in the dark, damp frozen abyss called an unconditioned garage!

What?  You don't share your body heat with them on cold nights?  Pheh.  And here I thought you were a motorcycle lover.

Can't stop the ravages of elements and time.  But, it does help to be aware of the factors that contribute.  ...to make the best of what you can.

Cheers,

P.S. Rust never sleeps.

[scottly]

Not difficult in The Netherlands with more bicycles than inhabitants. General practice here is, that for a distance less than 5 miles, people prefer to cycle: no dressing up, no helmet needed.

Did you not hear about Frank??
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,188245.0.html

[calj737]

What?  You don't share your body heat with them on cold nights?  Pheh.  And here I thought you were a motorcycle lover.

No cuddling I’m afraid. I do plenty of that in the warmer months. But I do read to them nightly and regale them with YT videos of past GP races and TT events. Hoping they’ll absorb some extra ponies through auditory osmosis 

[Deltarider]

Not difficult in The Netherlands with more bicycles than inhabitants. General practice here is, that for a distance less than 5 miles, people prefer to cycle: no dressing up, no helmet needed.

Did you not hear about Frank??
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,188245.0.html

? Uh... You have to excuse me... I don't see the connection. I don't know who he (Frank) is.

[MauiK3]

Frank (754) was a huge contributor here. Very nice guy.

[RAFster122s]

Scotty's point was we had a member here who died after a spill on his bicycle and he was not wearing a helmet. He suffered a hit to the head which caused an aneurysm and despite a hospital's best efforts he died several days later suddenly after being  perfectly lucid hours before.
So, a bicycle helmet should be worn when riding bicycles and motorcycle helmets should be worn riding motorcycles...

[Alan F.]

First round's on me.

[HondaMan]

Seeing water on the ground from the drain holes is a good sign.  When you don't see it is when the problems start.  The owner's manual used to tell you to keep the drain holes clear.  Kind of like the drain tubes for a car's sunroof.

Ooooo...thanks for the reminder!

[HondaMan]

There is too much idling  Camshaft doesn't like it, the oil doesn't, the exhausts don't, the charging isn't even there... to cut a long story short: your bike hates it. Firing up during hibernation is not recommended. You may think you have a good reason for it, but... let's be honest... maybe it is just you longing to hear old faithful again...
Personally, I have best results with leaving the carbs in a natural state, which is wet, drain the bowls say every two months and - with the bowls empty - crank the engine a few turns to have underpressure clear the jets. Then let the bowls refill. I agitate my rear shocks a few times.
My experience with OEM exhausts is that they can last 75.000 kms, provided you abstain from short rides* and inspect those tiny drain holes say every 6 months or so.
*Not difficult in The Netherlands with more bicycles than inhabitants. General practice here is, that for a distance less than 5 miles, people prefer to cycle: no dressing up, no helmet needed.
See the bike below? Bought in the early 50s, it has been my grandad's dayly ride for decades. I inherited it. When I did a calculation the other day, I discovered - much to my surprise - that that bicycle has covered more miles than my motorcycle has: over 150.000 kms (95.000 mies). Except for tyres, chain and chainguard, everything is original.

Don't those things require effort to ride?
I'm too old for that...mine is still hanging in the BACK of the shed, now 30 years since I last used it.

[pjlogue]

There is too much idling  Camshaft doesn't like it, the oil doesn't, the exhausts don't, the charging isn't even there... to cut a long story short: your bike hates it. Firing up during hibernation is not recommended. You may think you have a good reason for it, but... let's be honest... maybe it is just you longing to hear old faithful again...
Personally, I have best results with leaving the carbs in a natural state, which is wet, drain the bowls say every two months and - with the bowls empty - crank the engine a few turns to have underpressure clear the jets. Then let the bowls refill. I agitate my rear shocks a few times.
My experience with OEM exhausts is that they can last 75.000 kms, provided you abstain from short rides* and inspect those tiny drain holes say every 6 months or so.
*Not difficult in The Netherlands with more bicycles than inhabitants. General practice here is, that for a distance less than 5 miles, people prefer to cycle: no dressing up, no helmet needed.
See the bike below? Bought in the early 50s, it has been my grandad's dayly ride for decades. I inherited it. When I did a calculation the other day, I discovered - much to my surprise - that that bicycle has covered more miles than my motorcycle has: over 150.000 kms (95.000 mies). Except for tyres, chain and chainguard, everything is original.

Don't those things require effort to ride?
I'm too old for that...mine is still hanging in the BACK of the shed, now 30 years since I last used it.

I rode bicycles growing up and stopped when I got my first motorcycle.  After a few years I tried riding the bicycle again.  WOW, that was scary.  I thought to myself "these bicycles are downright dangerous!"  Without the mass of the motorcycle the bicycle seemed wobbly and hard to control.  Never rode a bicycle after that.

Very sorry to hear about Frank's passing.  I enjoyed his posts and his humor.  RIP Frank.

-P

[Deltarider]

Here are some things that may amuse/warn you. All Dutch children learn to ride a bicycle real young. Riding a bicycle is the best I have ever learned. A sidestep: some years ago scientists, after studying images in slow motion, came to the conclusion that what the average young schoolboy does when he mounts his bike and rolls the first meters, with all these minimal corrections at the same time, that this action as a whole must be about the most complex coordinated movement man can do. Every pupil going to school, learns this and once mastered, will never forget it. Cycling seems very good for their mental health: year after year Dutch children are ranked the number one happiest children in the world. I cannot come to another conclusion than that this cycling must have to do with it, because it is only the cycling that sets them apart. Mastering your first 'machine' and then indepedently explore the world, feeling free at such a young age... nothing beats it. Official statistics show that over 50% of all our going around here is done cycling. In the city where I live, it's 80%. Nowadays wearing a helmet on a sports bike, is very common. What has happened to Frank, is very sad. I feel ashamed: even after a serious accident (ambulance, hospital, brain contusion) I have been so stupid to ride my sportsbike without a helmet for years thereafter... and when I recall my descending the mountain passes of the High Atlas in the south of Morocco with speeds up to over 60 km without a helmet on... one inch wide tyres... the horror! I am wiser now and wear a helmet, be it only on my sportsbike. When we see a cyclist on a standard bike wearing a helmet, we conclude it is a tourist. Also his or her movements will tell us: keep a distance. What they all do wrong is, thinking you need the handlebars to steer. That's not how it's done. The handlebars are just for your hands to rest on. It's the minimal leaning of the body that results in steering. This skill is best learned young, I'm afraid.
Recently there has been some minor debate about making helmets mandatory. The Dutch are too anarchistic, I'm afraid.

[Little_Phil]

As I get older I find walking and cycling the best way to relax and inadvertently exercise enjoy what is close (10 miles) by. And in weathers where I would not use the motorbike and dare not even start it for the reasons already mentioned. Just replaced the head gasket to cure an oil leak on one and the desire to start it is strong, but it will wait.