Author Topic: A place to respectfully discuss your feelings on vaccines and mandates thereof.  (Read 8251 times)

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Offline carnivorous chicken

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By contrast, have only found one reported instance of a human being killed by a javelina

Good news, although they certainly seem to try. I kept my distance when I saw those things.

There are numerous accounts of people having survived Javelina attacks.  Usually when out walking their dog.

Bait and switch.

Offline carnivorous chicken

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I came across this a while back and it pretty much explains why I didn't get vaxxed.

Although I do hold the utmost respect for people who take medical advice from memes, I gotta say that ain't exactly how it works.

Offline goodtryer

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I came across this a while back and it pretty much explains why I didn't get vaxxed.

Although I do hold the utmost respect for people who take medical advice from memes, I gotta say that ain't exactly how it works.

Well then, by all means, random internet guy named after a fictional creature on a motorcycle forum, enlighten us with your brilliant experience in virology and epidemiology. Let us know “exactly how it works.”
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Offline BomberMann650

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If the Rogan vid is correct I did not know the the J in Javelina was pronounced as an H. I had a 1969 Big Bad Orange edition AMC Javelin back in the day. Wonder if I was pronouncing it wrong all these years ?  ;D

Could say thats a distinct possibility


Offline BomberMann650

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By contrast, have only found one reported instance of a human being killed by a javelina

Good news, although they certainly seem to try. I kept my distance when I saw those things.

There are numerous accounts of people having survived Javelina attacks.  Usually when out walking their dog.

Bait and switch.

With the interest of being thorough, there are many, many stories of Javelina attacking pets while the owners were not present.

In summation - Javelina's attack.

Offline Shopdog

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I came across this a while back and it pretty much explains why I didn't get vaxxed.

Although I do hold the utmost respect for people who take medical advice from memes, I gotta say that ain't exactly how it works.

I never said I decided to not get jabbed because of a meme. I simply said I stumbled across that meme and could relate to its meaning. I like that you were so bothered by it, though. There's an excellent point made.  For those who have medical issues caused by an experimental "vaccine"  later in life, maybe they'll reminisce about this one. Any bets on how long it will take before we're seeing constant ads on tv from attorneys cashing in on vax injury lawsuits?

Offline goodtryer

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I came across this a while back and it pretty much explains why I didn't get vaxxed.

Although I do hold the utmost respect for people who take medical advice from memes, I gotta say that ain't exactly how it works.

I never said I decided to not get jabbed because of a meme. I simply said I stumbled across that meme and could relate to its meaning. I like that you were so bothered by it, though. There's an excellent point made.  For those who have medical issues caused by an experimental "vaccine"  later in life, maybe they'll reminisce about this one. Any bets on how long it will take before we're seeing constant ads on tv from attorneys cashing in on vax injury lawsuits?

Unfortunately it is unlikely that lawsuits will be allowed. The vax producers were granted immunity and they are seeking 50 to 75 years of secrecy before the related documents are made public.

But there’s no reason to be concerned  ::)
"Tolerance will reach such a level that intelligent people will be banned from thinking so as not to offend the imbeciles."
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Offline Shopdog

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I came across this a while back and it pretty much explains why I didn't get vaxxed.

Although I do hold the utmost respect for people who take medical advice from memes, I gotta say that ain't exactly how it works.

I never said I decided to not get jabbed because of a meme. I simply said I stumbled across that meme and could relate to its meaning. I like that you were so bothered by it, though. There's an excellent point made.  For those who have medical issues caused by an experimental "vaccine"  later in life, maybe they'll reminisce about this one. Any bets on how long it will take before we're seeing constant ads on tv from attorneys cashing in on vax injury lawsuits?

Unfortunately it is unlikely that lawsuits will be allowed. The vax producers were granted immunity and they are seeking 50 to 75 years of secrecy before the related documents are made public.

But there’s no reason to be concerned  ::)
Nope. Totally legit!  ::)

Offline ofreen

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I was taught to distrust anyone who told me there was something I shouldn't see.  I was brought up that way, and that was reinforced in school.  The idea that censorship is abhorrent was drummed into us and the reasoning behind that was sound, something borne out again and again by history.  And everything I have seen and experienced has borne out the wisdom of that.  So when Rogan's interviews with Peter McCullough and Robert Malone were censored by youtube and other big tech outlets, it only made me want to listen to them more.  What are they trying to hide?  Then Neil Young who famously sang he wouldn't sing for coke or pepsi is now perfectly fine with singing for big pharmaceutical companies. It's a wacky world we are living in. 

Anyway, thanks to Rumble the interviews are available for viewing.  Check them out if you haven't already -

https://rumble.com/vqx8ma-dr-peter-mccullough-with-joe-rogan-the-joe-rogan-experience-1747.html

https://rumble.com/vrtdku-joe-rogan-jre-1757-robert-malone-covid.html
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Offline Shopdog

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I was taught to distrust anyone who told me there was something I shouldn't see.  I was brought up that way, and that was reinforced in school.  The idea that censorship is abhorrent was drummed into us and the reasoning behind that was sound, something borne out again and again by history.  So when Rogan's interviews with Peter McCullough and Robert Malone were censored by youtube and other big tech outlets, it only made me want to listen to them more.  What are they trying to hide?  Then Neil Young who famously sang he wouldn't sing for coke or pepsi is now perfectly fine with singing for big pharmaceutical companies. It's a wacky world we are living in. 

Anyway, thanks to Rumble the interviews are available for viewing.  Check them out if you haven't already -

https://rumble.com/vqx8ma-dr-peter-mccullough-with-joe-rogan-the-joe-rogan-experience-1747.html

https://rumble.com/vrtdku-joe-rogan-jre-1757-robert-malone-covid.html

I have the same thoughts exactly! It's also funny how all the old (and young)  anti-establishment hippie-types are now telling us we need to be injected by a govt-sponsored experimental gene therapy from a corporate conglomerate big pharma company.  They were also adamantly against censorship. What changed? I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that they were really just siding with whatever side was anti-capitalism. So much for "keep on rockin' in the free world"!

I remember my older sister preaching anti-censorship to me when I was young. Now, she fully supports it (as long as it lines up with her own beliefs, otherwise, submit to govt and corporations.)

Offline carnivorous chicken

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I was taught to distrust anyone who told me there was something I shouldn't see.  I was brought up that way, and that was reinforced in school.  The idea that censorship is abhorrent was drummed into us and the reasoning behind that was sound, something borne out again and again by history.  So when Rogan's interviews with Peter McCullough and Robert Malone were censored by youtube and other big tech outlets, it only made me want to listen to them more.  What are they trying to hide?  Then Neil Young who famously sang he wouldn't sing for coke or pepsi is now perfectly fine with singing for big pharmaceutical companies. It's a wacky world we are living in. 

Anyway, thanks to Rumble the interviews are available for viewing.  Check them out if you haven't already -

https://rumble.com/vqx8ma-dr-peter-mccullough-with-joe-rogan-the-joe-rogan-experience-1747.html

https://rumble.com/vrtdku-joe-rogan-jre-1757-robert-malone-covid.html

I have the same thoughts exactly! It's also funny how all the old (and young)  anti-establishment hippie-types are now telling us we need to be injected by a govt-sponsored experimental gene therapy from a corporate conglomerate big pharma company.  They were also adamantly against censorship. What changed? I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that they were really just siding with whatever side was anti-capitalism. So much for "keep on rockin' in the free world"!

I remember my older sister preaching anti-censorship to me when I was young. Now, she fully supports it (as long as it lines up with her own beliefs, otherwise, submit to govt and corporations.)

I gotta be honest, I love this 5hit. Just about checks all of the boxes!

Offline goodtryer

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I was taught to distrust anyone who told me there was something I shouldn't see.  I was brought up that way, and that was reinforced in school.  The idea that censorship is abhorrent was drummed into us and the reasoning behind that was sound, something borne out again and again by history.  So when Rogan's interviews with Peter McCullough and Robert Malone were censored by youtube and other big tech outlets, it only made me want to listen to them more.  What are they trying to hide?  Then Neil Young who famously sang he wouldn't sing for coke or pepsi is now perfectly fine with singing for big pharmaceutical companies. It's a wacky world we are living in. 

Anyway, thanks to Rumble the interviews are available for viewing.  Check them out if you haven't already -

https://rumble.com/vqx8ma-dr-peter-mccullough-with-joe-rogan-the-joe-rogan-experience-1747.html

https://rumble.com/vrtdku-joe-rogan-jre-1757-robert-malone-covid.html

I have the same thoughts exactly! It's also funny how all the old (and young)  anti-establishment hippie-types are now telling us we need to be injected by a govt-sponsored experimental gene therapy from a corporate conglomerate big pharma company.  They were also adamantly against censorship. What changed? I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that they were really just siding with whatever side was anti-capitalism. So much for "keep on rockin' in the free world"!

I remember my older sister preaching anti-censorship to me when I was young. Now, she fully supports it (as long as it lines up with her own beliefs, otherwise, submit to govt and corporations.)

I gotta be honest, I love this 5hit. Just about checks all of the boxes!

Easier than doing your homework explaining how all this exactly works. No fair keeping all your expert knowledge from the rest of us. 

I wonder how much overlap there is of those who most loudly support this vaccine and mandate stuff and those who suckle at the government teat for their livelihood.
"Tolerance will reach such a level that intelligent people will be banned from thinking so as not to offend the imbeciles."
-Dostoievski

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Offline ofreen

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I gotta be honest, I love this 5hit. Just about checks all of the boxes!

Sadly, so does this, except it is a different set of boxes.
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Offline carnivorous chicken

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I wonder how much overlap there is of those who most loudly support this vaccine and mandate stuff and those who suckle at the government teat for their livelihood.

Dude, c'mon, I live in Mexico.

The Neil Young thing is simply him exercising his right to not sell his music on a Spotify. It's not censorship -- he's not saying "You can't have Joe Rogan" and then Spotify removes Joe Rogan. That's censorship. I thought the right was all about being able to decide how you want to do business in a free market. A free market is also the ability to decide how your product is sold. Rogan, the Oprah for white middle aged men who is about as cultish, has broadcast misinformation about Covid that some people find dangerous. Neil Young is one of those people, and he basically said "I don't want to be associated with that." He took a financial hit for that, as did everyone else who withdrew from Spotify (some, including India.Arie, because Rogan has used racial slurs on his program). Can you still listen to Rogan? Then how is this censorship? The right loves to claim that the left always cries victim, but here is the right crying victim for weird reasons.

Or would you prefer that someone (the government? Spotify? Anthony Fauci?) force Neil Young to have his music on Spotify?

As for the rest of that gem? The Covid vaccine is not "gene therapy." I thought the right liked big corporations? How is any of this "anti-capitalism?"

And it's just engaging in conspiracies to think that, what, 70-80% of the world's population somehow has, what again? Mutated genes? And will sue the government (their governments?) Or that there have been huge numbers of deaths associated with vaccination (which is a lie that McCullough peddles)?

And look, you guys all have the same access to information that I have. If you choose to listen to Joe Rogan and his guests, who have been lying about vaccination and Covid, then be my guest. But you should know there are better sources, and you can choose to access those.


Offline goodtryer

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I wonder how much overlap there is of those who most loudly support this vaccine and mandate stuff and those who suckle at the government teat for their livelihood.

Dude, c'mon, I live in Mexico.

The Neil Young thing is simply him exercising his right to not sell his music on a Spotify. It's not censorship -- he's not saying "You can't have Joe Rogan" and then Spotify removes Joe Rogan. That's censorship. I thought the right was all about being able to decide how you want to do business in a free market. A free market is also the ability to decide how your product is sold. Rogan, the Oprah for white middle aged men who is about as cultish, has broadcast misinformation about Covid that some people find dangerous. Neil Young is one of those people, and he basically said "I don't want to be associated with that." He took a financial hit for that, as did everyone else who withdrew from Spotify (some, including India.Arie, because Rogan has used racial slurs on his program). Can you still listen to Rogan? Then how is this censorship? The right loves to claim that the left always cries victim, but here is the right crying victim for weird reasons.

Or would you prefer that someone (the government? Spotify? Anthony Fauci?) force Neil Young to have his music on Spotify?

As for the rest of that gem? The Covid vaccine is not "gene therapy." I thought the right liked big corporations? How is any of this "anti-capitalism?"

And it's just engaging in conspiracies to think that, what, 70-80% of the world's population somehow has, what again? Mutated genes? And will sue the government (their governments?) Or that there have been huge numbers of deaths associated with vaccination (which is a lie that McCullough peddles)?

And look, you guys all have the same access to information that I have. If you choose to listen to Joe Rogan and his guests, who have been lying about vaccination and Covid, then be my guest. But you should know there are better sources, and you can choose to access those.

My favorite was when Rogan was caught lying by a science doctor expert who works for a very reliable news network that doesn’t employ gropers or wankers or cheaters. I’m told they are very trustworthy.  https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=53&v=8YIhSOL_23A&feature=emb_logo
"Tolerance will reach such a level that intelligent people will be banned from thinking so as not to offend the imbeciles."
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Offline Dunk

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Thanks for your peaceful tolerance of others and respect of their choices. So many these days are intolerant, hateful, and sometimes outright violent.

When these "vaccines" first came out I was hesitant, of the the "wait and see" mindset as I'm not in the at risk demographic and these injections were rushed. As it turns out the powers that be redefined a word, as they often do, and now the official meaning of "vaccine" is to offer "protection" rather than immunity. It turns out the rushed injections do not prevent one from catching or spreading coronavirus, certainly not the latest variants (even if they may have offered some protection against catching to earlier ones). Heart and cardiovascular issues are more common side effects, and my family has a history of heart issues which also makes me uncomfortable getting these injections for questionable "protection" from something that is a minimal risk to me. Relatively uncommon but debilitating side effects have been observed, one of which is hearing issues such as tinnitus and hyperacusis, both of which I already suffer from. No matter how small the chance of making my T or H worse with these new injections, I will not take that risk. I would rather be dead than be back or the worst of my suffering with these conditions. I will not risk a permanent setback or any setback for questionable "protection" from something I am far less likely to die from than driving to work, let alone riding to work.

No matter, once the government mandates (backed with coercion, force, and ultimately violence) came about, my personal medical condition and risk/reward analysis became irrelevant. Good ideas do not require government force or threats. As soon as government mandated these injections I would never get them even if I felt they were otherwise worthwhile, or at the least I would get them if I were truly at high risk and had no medical concerns about side effects, but would never show my papers. For the past year I've been assuming I will be fired simply for declining to show personal and private medical documents, with no consideration to performance or deliverables. Fundamentally this is not about an injection, "vaccine", or "up to date booster", as I would never disclose such things to my employer for normal work in the country.

I've been selling stuff and throwing out junk, preparing to move from and authoritarian left leaning state to a free state. Even with the supreme court ruling and various rolling back of the tyranny I am not convinced I am safe and am still planning to be fired. I work for a federal contractor (there are far more than you'd think, given how far the FAR and DFAR flow down... think cleaning companies, electricians, plumbers, etc.) and beyond that I'm not convinced the authoritarians will not renew their coercive mandate efforts before winter is over or towards the end of the year at the federal level, or they may try the same thing here at the state level.

So I've been downsizing significantly, stuffing my mattress with cash, and spending far less. It helps that I have more bikes than I need and with rampant inflation and welfare spending prices of old junk are up. I've been preparing to be unemployed and unemployable where I live. I never thought I'd sell my K1 that I've had for 12 years and was the first bike I restored, but even that one is on the table when the time comes. Rather than stay and be forced into poverty, homelessness, and an eventual slow death from starvation and exposure I am preparing to sell off everything and pack what I can into my rusty old pickup and head to a free state for a new start. Not exactly what I envisioned for this point in my life but it's what those who support mandated want, if they can't outright kill me via government force and coercion at least.

I take no issue and feel no ill will toward those who choose to get these injections, it's none of my business and I will not discriminate. I am a live and let live type of person and tend to mind my own business. I take issue with those who want to use government force, violence, against peaceful people who choose not to partake. Those who have created a new class of undesirables who are subject to institutionalized discrimination and segregation (or else, the government force bit).

Offline calj737

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The Neil Young thing is simply him exercising his right to not sell his music on a Spotify. It's not censorship -- he's not saying "You can't have Joe Rogan" and then Spotify removes Joe Rogan. That's censorship.
Au contraire, mi Amigo. That is exactly what his intent was. “Him, or me”. And he is undertaking creating a wave of fellow artists who somehow smoked weed for decades and have become omniscient virologists in their pastime. I guess with the downturn in the popularity of their music and the reduction of tour dates, they’ve had ample free time to obtain those advanced medical degrees.

All the “tolerant elites” have attempted to silence, cancel, harass or pressure those with whom they disagree. Censorship. Plain and simple, no other word describes it and it falls directly beneath the pillars of tyranny and fascism, precisely what “they” accuse others of.

To Dunk and Ofreen’s point, “If you trust your government, then you don’t know your history”. Meme not required.
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Offline Shopdog

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No matter, once the government mandates (backed with coercion, force, and ultimately violence) came about, my personal medical condition and risk/reward analysis became irrelevant.

This has pretty much been my answer. I had to explain it to mom last year. I simply said that any hope of me getting the shot went out the window when the threats and coercion started. And to be honest, there wasn't much of a chance before that. I would go so far as to say that had our govt not gone down that road, more people would be vaxxed.

This reminds me of a quote I read last year. I can't recall who it was or the exact quote, but I'll paraphrase..."My reason for not getting vaxxed is simple. I dislike the people who want me to take it. My refusal makes them furious, and that, in turn, makes me happy."

I can definitely relate.

Offline scottly

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This reminds me of a quote I read last year. I can't recall who it was or the exact quote, but I'll paraphrase..."My reason for not getting vaxxed is simple. I dislike the people who want me to take it. My refusal makes them furious, and that, in turn, makes me happy."

I can definitely relate.
This seems to be the underlying theme behind a lot of the anti-vaxer and anti-masker arguments: "You can't make me! :P". ;)
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Offline Shopdog

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This reminds me of a quote I read last year. I can't recall who it was or the exact quote, but I'll paraphrase..."My reason for not getting vaxxed is simple. I dislike the people who want me to take it. My refusal makes them furious, and that, in turn, makes me happy."

I can definitely relate.
This seems to be the underlying theme behind a lot of the anti-vaxer and anti-masker arguments: "You can't make me! :P". ;)

But why does it bother them so much that we won't take it? I mean, if the vaccine works, then why does it matter if I take it? And if it doesn't work, why should I take it? Personally, I'm not taking it regardless. The fact that the vax-worshippers go nuts is just icing on the cake.

Offline carnivorous chicken

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The Neil Young thing is simply him exercising his right to not sell his music on a Spotify. It's not censorship -- he's not saying "You can't have Joe Rogan" and then Spotify removes Joe Rogan. That's censorship.
Au contraire, mi Amigo. That is exactly what his intent was. “Him, or me”. And he is undertaking creating a wave of fellow artists who somehow smoked weed for decades and have become omniscient virologists in their pastime. I guess with the downturn in the popularity of their music and the reduction of tour dates, they’ve had ample free time to obtain those advanced medical degrees.

All the “tolerant elites” have attempted to silence, cancel, harass or pressure those with whom they disagree. Censorship. Plain and simple, no other word describes it and it falls directly beneath the pillars of tyranny and fascism, precisely what “they” accuse others of.

To Dunk and Ofreen’s point, “If you trust your government, then you don’t know your history”. Meme not required.

So, Neil Young doesn't want his music on a platform that airs things antithetical to his views. You'd force him to have his music on there? Once it's on there, he can't demand that it's taken down? It was obvious Spotify would choose Joe Rogan -- they've invested money into him, he makes them money, etc. Young's protest was symbolic, there was no chance they were going to remove Rogan, Rogan has apologized and promised to do better, and it is nothing close to the censorship that you guys are whining about.

And the whole idea that if you think vaccines are reasonable and save lives that somehow makes you a "virologist" is nuts. Listening to those who are virologists and immunologists (not cardiologists, like McCullough -- how would you like your next heart surgery performed by Fauci?) and understanding what they are saying as a consensus is how people like Neil Young (and me, and most everyone else) formed our opinions. Or should I counter and say that Rogan seems to have become an omniscent virologist, how did that happen? It's when folks like the 'tryer sneer, use ad hoc insults, and claim that I don't know 5hit because I'm not a medical doctor -- of course not. But I listen to them, and trust the scientific consensus. You guys do too, I imagine, except for this one instance. Because Covid was politicized from the very start, and some people chose sides because of politics (although they won't admit it).

BTW, Dunk, I'm sorry to hear you have conditions that might make the vaccine dangerous for you. Other people do too, and in many instances where thee are mandates for particular lines of work there are exceptions made for those for whom vaccination might be a risk, as well as (legitimate) religious and other exemptions. I'm curious, however, that if you are going to leave the USA where would you go that is the truly "free state" that you want to live? Political thinkers from Mill and Rousseau on down have always argued that to live in a society one makes a social contract where one gives up some degree of liberty.

But, as usual, nobody is going to change their minds. I write answers with links and questions for goodtryer, for example what he thinks the cause and effect is on the charts that he posts, and he just writes personal attacks and non sequiturs. So much for thoughtful engagement.


Offline goodtryer

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So, Neil Young doesn't want his music on a platform that airs things antithetical to his views. You'd force him to have his music on there? Once it's on there, he can't demand that it's taken down?

Once again, you are intentionally misrepresenting the facts.

Neil didn't simply ask to have his music taken down. He demanded, Rogan or me.

On the question of "forcing" him to have his music on there, he sold the right to control his library, voluntarily, for consideration, in a contract. As a result, he no longer controls that property. It's no longer his to control, by his own choice. So, no, he can't demand that it is taken down. Caveat venditor.
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Offline carnivorous chicken

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On the question of "forcing" him to have his music on there, he sold the right to control his library, voluntarily, for consideration, in a contract. As a result, he no longer controls that property. It's no longer his to control, by his own choice. So, no, he can't demand that it is taken down. Caveat venditor.

Uh... he did, and they did. I'm not misrepresenting anything, thanks, I think you just don't understand what happened. But the information is out there, if you want to find it.

Offline goodtryer

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On the question of "forcing" him to have his music on there, he sold the right to control his library, voluntarily, for consideration, in a contract. As a result, he no longer controls that property. It's no longer his to control, by his own choice. So, no, he can't demand that it is taken down. Caveat venditor.

Uh... he did, and they did. I'm not misrepresenting anything, thanks, I think you just don't understand what happened. But the information is out there, if you want to find it.

Right again:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/06/business/neil-young-rights-deal-scli-intl-gbr/index.html
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/jan/06/neil-young-sells-50-per-cent-of-entire-song-catalogue-rights-to-hipgnosis
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-55557633

""Before I told my friends at Warner Bros about my desire to leave the SPOTIFY platform, I was reminded by my own legal forces that contractually I did not have the control of my music to do that. I announced I was leaving anyway, because I knew I was. I was prepared to do all I could and more just to make sure that happened."
-Neil Young
« Last Edit: February 07, 2022, 08:56:16 AM by goodtryer »
"Tolerance will reach such a level that intelligent people will be banned from thinking so as not to offend the imbeciles."
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Offline carnivorous chicken

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https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/26/arts/music/spotify-neil-young-joe-rogan.html

As I said, Neil Young demanded Spotify remove his music, and Spotify removed his music. You asserted he can't demand to have it taken down. I said he did, and they did, which is exactly what happened. You sent links to old news stories about how he sold the rights to his catalogue. But these are different things. Who ultmately controls the rights to his music may affect whether there are legal proceedings, but for now, as I said, he demanded that they remove his music and they did.

I know you are fixated on proving me wrong (and it's a little weird), but I'm not wrong here.