Author Topic: A place to respectfully discuss your feelings on vaccines and mandates thereof.  (Read 8290 times)

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Offline grcamna2

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Live free or die. Surprisingly, a few of my friends and relatives made that choice. It seems more people I knew are being found dead at home recently, maybe that's just anecdotal evidence.
  I don't feel like getting a vaccine took away any of my freedoms and wearing the mask is just common courtesy. We're all getting exposed sooner or later, make your choices and I hope my health insurance doesn't go up a lot due to them.

Thanks Don.
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Offline BomberMann650

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18,000 new-new cases statewide in arizona?
Given the population density of the cities.  That's remarkable.
Still a giant pain in the rear for the sick and everyone they know.
Although, should the mortality rate here scale evenly there. 
100 of those people might succumb to the illness or its complications.

Not very shiny, given that consideration.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2022, 11:56:28 PM by BomberMann650 »

Offline Terry in Australia

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Live free or die. Surprisingly, a few of my friends and relatives made that choice. It seems more people I knew are being found dead at home recently, maybe that's just anecdotal evidence.
  I don't feel like getting a vaccine took away any of my freedoms and wearing the mask is just common courtesy. We're all getting exposed sooner or later, make your choices and I hope my health insurance doesn't go up a lot due to them.

That sucks Don. Nope, I don't feel like any of my freedoms have been trampled either. I got 3 free vaccines, and I don't have covid. We were locked down for more time than any other place in the world, but our mortality numbers (2000-ish since 2020) are very low. Omicron is more annoying than deadly, over 1 million Aussies has either had Covid or currently has it, but only 500 (mostly unvaccinated) in hospital, and around 150 in ICU. I'm pissed off that I don't know what a Javalina is, but I want one anyway. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline krusty

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Live free or die. Surprisingly, a few of my friends and relatives made that choice. It seems more people I knew are being found dead at home recently, maybe that's just anecdotal evidence.
  I don't feel like getting a vaccine took away any of my freedoms and wearing the mask is just common courtesy. We're all getting exposed sooner or later, make your choices and I hope my health insurance doesn't go up a lot due to them.

That sucks Don. Nope, I don't feel like any of my freedoms have been trampled either. I got 3 free vaccines, and I don't have covid. We were locked down for more time than any other place in the world, but our mortality numbers (2000-ish since 2020) are very low. Omicron is more annoying than deadly, over 1 million Aussies has either had Covid or currently has it, but only 500 (mostly unvaccinated) in hospital, and around 150 in ICU. I'm pissed off that I don't know what a Javalina is, but I want one anyway. ;D
I'm with you Terry. Along with what you mentioned it should be noted that our economy has not collapsed and is the 12th largest National Economy by Nominal GDP. We didn't achieve that by hiding in our basements - if we had them.
I too didn't know about Javelina, I had to Google it. Thanks to this thread I have just learned something new.
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Live free or die. Surprisingly, a few of my friends and relatives made that choice. It seems more people I knew are being found dead at home recently, maybe that's just anecdotal evidence.
  I don't feel like getting a vaccine took away any of my freedoms and wearing the mask is just common courtesy. We're all getting exposed sooner or later, make your choices and I hope my health insurance doesn't go up a lot due to them.

That sucks Don. Nope, I don't feel like any of my freedoms have been trampled either. I got 3 free vaccines, and I don't have covid. We were locked down for more time than any other place in the world, but our mortality numbers (2000-ish since 2020) are very low. Omicron is more annoying than deadly, over 1 million Aussies has either had Covid or currently has it, but only 500 (mostly unvaccinated) in hospital, and around 150 in ICU. I'm pissed off that I don't know what a Javalina is, but I want one anyway. ;D
I'm with you Terry. Along with what you mentioned it should be noted that our economy has not collapsed and is the 12th largest National Economy by Nominal GDP. We didn't achieve that by hiding in our basements - if we had them.
I too didn't know about Javelina, I had to Google it. Thanks to this thread I have just learned something new.


Thanks mate, I suppose I better go google Javalina. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline RAFster122s

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Javalina are a smelly pig…they have scent glands that give them a really obnoxious smell and in packs they can be quite dangerous to humans and dogs…know to occasionally attack either.  They tear up cactus looking for grubs that may feed on the cactus roots. They have been digging up lots of prickly pear cactus and a few other varieties on the property. They also eat prickly pear cactus petals and the fruit from the blooms.
So, essentially they are a pest. The scent gland makes them all but inedible unless you know how to cut it away.
So it isn’t like a wild boar or wild pig you can have butchered and supplement your food stores with in the freezer.

Some people think they are cute… I’m clearly not one of them…
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline Terry in Australia

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Hmmnn, I wanted a pet Javalina until you told me they were a stinky pig David, I don't want anything that smells worse than me, it'd only confuse my wife and family. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline RAFster122s

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Yeah, you could not bath for a month and you would smell better than a javelina. Pretty sure they can survive rattlesnake bites and they will eat rattlesnakes.
They are mostly nocturnal but you see them in daytime from time to time. Last summer someone shot one with an arrow NE of where I live and it survived and was taken to vets and nursed back to health. Fish and Game officers were looking for the person who shot it and even had a sizable reward for information leading to an arrest. No one was caught.
They have a hunting season for them but you have to buy a tag and usually be chosen for the lottery to hunt that game that year…you submit your bid/entry for various weeks and locations to hunt them and the lottery draws their allotment for that zone for each week during the season.

The coyotes here are protected because of the national park being so close to where I live. I am a few miles to the NW of Saguaro National Park -West. Saguaros are the giant cactus with arms. I have many of them on the property I rent and live on.

Several years ago a friend was hunting javalina down in Cochise county and a coyote approached him coming straight towards him about 20-30 yards away. He shot it and it dropped in its tracks falling over on its side. He was surprised it dropped like that…
You cannot hunt wolves or coyotes to extinction, just not possible. The coyotes didn’t live in the Eastern US when I was growing up, now they are in just about every state.
Here they will wait on berms buffering some apartment complexes in Tucson lying in wait for opportunities to prey on small dogs apartment residents are taking for a walk. Many a little old lady has lost her chihuahua or toy poodle or miniature whatever to a coyote which will pop over the berm attack the small dog grab it by the throat or neck and drag it free of the owner’s grasp of the leash and back across the berm and into a wash with its dinner/meal.
The coyotes and other animals use the washes as highways into and out and around the city, but not uncommon to seeing them on the roadways and side streets either as they do not fear humans they have gotten so used to them.
Came home one Sunday afternoon and a really big one was on my property headed for the gate which Ihad pulled up to a minute prior and was out of my car headed for the gate to unlock it and he didn’t see me until he was 25-30 feet from me. He then turned and trotted back the way he came and circled back and when he saw me still at the gate which I had opened he  turned and then went looking for another way out, 4 foot wire mesh fence with barbed wire strand at top of fence surrounds the property. He went to the far side and then jumped the fence on the main street side…
« Last Edit: January 13, 2022, 03:30:58 AM by RAFster122s »
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline madmtnmotors

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When I read Javalina I thought it sounded like a girl that brings you coffee...  ;)
TAMTF...


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Offline Shopdog

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We don't have javelina here in the mountains of West Virginia, but we have plenty of coyote. Unfortunately, they do a number on our deer & turkey. Our state has a lot of hunters and coyote are competing for the same food source. The Eastern coyote is quite a bit different from the western type. As they migrated across the country, they bred with wolves (red wolves, iirc) and as a result, are much larger. They are not native to the area and it is open season with no bag limit.

A few years ago, I killed a black one. I believe, technically, it would have been considered a "coy dog". I've had trail cam pics of several black ones. I always thought it would make a good full body mount, but I'm not sure how my 3 boxers would get along with it lol!
« Last Edit: January 13, 2022, 10:29:16 AM by Shopdog »

Offline Terry in Australia

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I was watching "Mountain Monsters" a couple of days ago, and they were hunting some "Smoke Wolves" (a local legendary monster wolf, much larger than a regular wolf) somewhere in West Virginia, which had been dragging full size cows to their lair. The "Mountain Monsters" good old boys actually caught two nice big wolves (which looked awfully tame, I thought) but no Smoke Wolves, sadly. I think it was the first time since I started watching the show that they actually caught something? Great show, regardless of where the wolves might have come from....... ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline grcamna2

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I was watching "Mountain Monsters" a couple of days ago, and they were hunting some "Smoke Wolves" (a local legendary monster wolf, much larger than a regular wolf) somewhere in West Virginia, which had been dragging full size cows to their lair. The "Mountain Monsters" good old boys actually caught two nice big wolves (which looked awfully tame, I thought) but no Smoke Wolves, sadly. I think it was the first time since I started watching the show that they actually caught something? Great show, regardless of where the wolves might have come from....... ;D

I hope the 'monsters' they're hunting don't get big enough to start hunting them  :o
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  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline Terry in Australia

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I was watching "Mountain Monsters" a couple of days ago, and they were hunting some "Smoke Wolves" (a local legendary monster wolf, much larger than a regular wolf) somewhere in West Virginia, which had been dragging full size cows to their lair. The "Mountain Monsters" good old boys actually caught two nice big wolves (which looked awfully tame, I thought) but no Smoke Wolves, sadly. I think it was the first time since I started watching the show that they actually caught something? Great show, regardless of where the wolves might have come from....... ;D

I hope the 'monsters' they're hunting don't get big enough to start hunting them  :o

Well the "Smoke Wolves" had a lair in a cave on the side of a creek Bill, and there were the remains of whole cows and pigs that were bigger than the good old boys, and when they were leaving a blood trail for them they were surrounded by them in a corn field at one point, and whether they were acting or not, they genuinely looked like they were sh1tting bricks. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline Don R

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 One of my former Plumbing apprentices just moved from Illinois to Arizona to run a big shop. He has posted pics of Javalina in his new back yard. He lost a dog to Coyotes when he lived here and bought tools to eliminate the threat of that, I'd assume if allowed, he could handle any problem they present.
 And my vaccine has not harmed me yet.
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Offline RAFster122s

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David- back in the desert SW!

Offline jlh3rd

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medicine works is probabilities (to answer our friend "jlh3rd") if any physician ever tell you 100% or 0%, i would leave that office immediately and get a second opinion. so if you're look for 100%, then you're dreaming. medicine like mechanics is in "tolerances" right? what's percent of death rate or survival rate is "tolerable". i'll admit going thru all this trouble to infringe on "your rights" is a hard sell when death rate is 1.5%. and i was an early skeptic as well. an experienced colleague infectious disease doctor told us that this epidemic will never spread in the US, our public health system is too well established (this is after the first couple of people got sick in Washington). but as i see how even now with this new surge, with again vast majority of people in hospital (and i'm not talking about 51%) are unvaccinated and a lot of paranoid people gumming up the ER, the hospital is at 150% capacity. the splash damage as you may hear is that other severe medical condition can't be treated. prime example, i had to cancel a cancer surgery on a patient today, early cancer, easily treat able, but there are no beds in recovery unit and no beds in the hospital because everything is being converted to care to the acute issues.

but ultimately we're not convincing each other to change sides, my goal is to understand better. its hard to convince someone to give up their individuality, burden them, or change their way of life to benefit those they don't know.  especially when asked to take interest in something that they have possible "innate immunity" to.  individuality vs. greater good right? the essence of the problem.

i stand by my statement "be mindful of others" because i'm not shaming you to get vaccinated. these are what i see on the ground, nearly every day for the last 2 years, no filtered media, facts. take it as you like. call me a pompous ass... doesn't bother me, this is just a motorcycle forum of people of different



Well, I didn't specifically call you that....I called the post pompous...but I didn't say "ass".....

See how facts get distorted?....or twisted? .........which is my biggest point all along with this wuhan virus mess. we (the people) can't  get absolute, objective facts. I want absolute #'s on exact deaths based on patients with and without co-morbidities. Deaths  from the virus, not deaths with the virus. Actual cases of admittance because of the virus. Actual cases per day NOT including the cases from the previous day., or counting the same person every day..yeah, that's what they do. Pre treatments and early treatments have been forbidden, banned and unreported. Why?. Why can't any patient in cooperation with their doctor be allowed to request the treatments they want? All of this, and more, is an act of distorting the facts but claiming the facts aren't distorted.
Good judgment is based on facts. We are not getting the unadulterated facts. Some people just follow a
crowd. Not me.
And just who decides what the good judgment is that is to be made? What committee chosen by which group?...Obviously, my good judgement is not on par with a certain group, therefore my judgment is "faulty". Giving up "individuality for the greater good". Slippery......and scary...

I passed a guy on motorcycle about a year ago, he was wearing a mask...but not a helmet. I'm not joining that group.
   For the last almost 3 years,   I have sporadically asked my PA assistant son, my other son , a navy doctor, and my two nurse daughters-in-law just what is going on with them. They are not, nor have been in dire straits.
We use to be able to listen to a local doctor, chief medical officer of Holy spirit hospital in Camp Hill , pa. on the radio every morning. He's a vaccine guy, masker, but he gave accurate based assessments on numbers. They silenced him.
If, in fact, the panic and scare tactics we were told by experts ( and the media) were based on valid facts, florida and south dakota to name a few, should be void of all humans by now.


« Last Edit: January 15, 2022, 01:30:18 PM by jlh3rd »

Offline BomberMann650

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I wanna read more about Javelinas

Offline krusty

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I wanna read more about Javelinas
Javelinas are  peccaries. They are pig-like but are not pigs. They give birth to quite developed young, usually twins, that are soon running with their elders unlike piglets which are born helpless.
Honda
1976 CB750F1
1978 CB750F2
1972 CB350F
1961 C100 Cub
1962 C100 Cub
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1964 C95
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1961 250TA Colleda x 2 primed ready for paint and assembly
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1977 DT175E x 2
1978 DT125E
1979 DT125F
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1978 DT250G
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1990 FJ1200

Offline BomberMann650

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I remembered they were also selected as a harley dealer mascot

Offline carnivorous chicken

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Some interesting news re: vaccination, mandates, etc. I'm just gonna leave some stuff here. Not intending to rile up the usual suspects, although I am expecting that, but rather take stock on some of the issues of the thread.

Why not start with the CDC? If you believe in science, these are people you should take advice from.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e3.htm

From the summary: "During both Delta- and Omicron-predominant periods, receipt of a third vaccine dose was highly effective at preventing COVID-19–associated emergency department and urgent care encounters (94% and 82%, respectively) and preventing COVID-19–associated hospitalizations (94% and 90%, respectively)."

The US death toll has reached 900,000: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/04/us/us-covid-deaths.html

I remember a time not so long ago that people were saying it's no big deal, the flu kills people too. Hm. This is about one out of every 365 people in the USA (and no, you don't double it because it's been over two years, unless, of course, you think the population of the USA doubles every year. Population growth in the US is below .5% (which is far below replacement rate), and has been declining since Covid (2020 was around .35%)).

And, among developed nations, the US is the worst: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/02/01/science/covid-deaths-united-states.html?name=styln-coronavirus&region=TOP_BANNER&block=storyline_menu_recirc&action=click&pgtype=Article&variant=0_Control&is_new=false

Joe Rogan was once described to me as the "Oprah for middle-aged white males," which is just funny. Spotify, of course, has too much invested to do anything about him despite the boycotts by Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young (together again!) among others. Trevor Noah has a good take (although I think he's a little soft on Rogan):
A doctor in Pennsylvania was fired for prescribing ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine. Neither are approved for treating Covid, neither have been shown to help (and I know, there are some people here who think they work). https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/04/us/pennsylvania-doctor-ivermectin-fired.html. I have taken hydroxychloroquine several times -- I have had malaria four times and work in malarial areas, so I sometimes take it as a prophylactic -- and I wouldn't recommend it if it wasn't necessary. Bigger doses to cure malaria are almost worse than the malaria, and smaller doses can lead to some trippy dreams. I'm lucky I didn't have worse side effects, but some people do.

But the bigger issue is, of course, medical practitioners prescribing potentially harmful drugs that are not shown to affect the illness they are being prescribed for. I'm just curious where the information that they could help originated. I know where they have been amplified, and I know there are some "fringe" and maybe not-so-fringe medical professionals claiming they will help, but what about medical studies and peer-reviewed articles?

And in the UK, where I was, old Boris is being raked over the coals for telling people not to party, then partying himself, then lying about it to Parliament -- a dismissable offense. Will he survive?

I had to take several tests to travel: to get into the USA, to get into the UK, after two days in the UK, and to get back into the USA. The UK is now lifting restrictions, but I believe unvaccinated travellers will still have to quarantine. But I believe that rapid testing may just become commonplace.

The science on mask wearing is, as expected, developing over time -- a chief complaint of some critics. But it is showing the critics to be wrong, unfortunately, as masks are being proven to be efective at preventing the spread of Covid at both the source and for "wearer protection": https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/masking-science-sars-cov2.html.

Everyone is sick of this 5hit, but Covid is still around. Being aware of how it is transmitted, prevented, and cured and taking the necessary precautions seems to me a good way to reduce its impact.

Offline goodtryer

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https://www.dailywire.com/news/johns-hopkins-study-lockdowns-had-little-to-no-effect-on-covid-19-mortality-but-had-devastating-effects-on-society

A new working paper from Johns Hopkins University claims that COVID-19 lockdowns imposed by a variety of governments worldwide had “little to no effect” on COVID-19 mortality. The study, published by the Institute for Applied Economics, Global Health, and the Study of Business Enterprise conducted and by three professors from around the world, also found that lockdowns “imposed enormous economic and social costs” and are “ill-founded and should be rejected as a pandemic policy instrument.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/12/mask-guidelines-cdc-walensky/621035/

But the Arizona study at the center of the CDC’s back-to-school blitz turns out to have been profoundly misleading. “You can’t learn anything about the effects of school mask mandates from this study,” Jonathan Ketcham, a public-health economist at Arizona State University, told me. His view echoed the assessment of eight other experts who reviewed the research, and with whom I spoke for this article. Masks may well help prevent the spread of COVID, some of these experts told me, and there may well be contexts in which they should be required in schools. But the data being touted by the CDC—which showed a dramatic more-than-tripling of risk for unmasked students—ought to be excluded from this debate.

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Why not start with the CDC? If you believe in science, these are people you should take advice from.
Haha
Yeah, let's put a lot of faith in Dr. "I am the science" Fauci. Just let me know which day of the week I'm supposed to believe his completely opposite all-knowing opinions.

Masks don't work:
Didn't come from animals, unless my emails get exposed, then maybe it did: https://nypost.com/2021/06/03/fauci-rejects-claims-he-was-told-covid-may-have-been-engineered

Didn't fund gain of function research (oops, that was just a little lie to Congress): https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/nih-admits-fauci-lied-about-funding-wuhan-gain-of-function-experiments/ar-AAPLZIe
"Tolerance will reach such a level that intelligent people will be banned from thinking so as not to offend the imbeciles."
-Dostoievski

1977 CB550K
1978 CB750K
1973 CB500K

Offline carnivorous chicken

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Yes, there is no doubt a social toll from lockdowns. Thankfully that was an early response for the most part and it seems like most places and people have moved beyond that.

Yes, as the article you posted states there is a scientific consensus that wearing masks helps prevent the spread of Covid, there remain questions such as in a school environment with young children.

As for Fauci, that clip was aired in May of 2020, and Fauci made those comments in March of 2020 in the context of reserving a low supply of masks for medical workers. Here is the context of those comments: https://www.factcheck.org/2020/05/outdated-fauci-video-on-face-masks-shared-out-of-context/?gclid=Cj0KCQiA3fiPBhCCARIsAFQ8QzWJ-l5lnIdUBFoUP3OxHmNs22wORkc3axnKEExQtHFk9PCKBFUFeboaAqL_EALw_wcB  It is now February of 2022, and we have learned a lot about how Covid prevention works. One should be able to understand that positions may shift over time given access to new information, and that as a non-partisan medical professional who has worked for numerous Republican and Democratic administrations, he is eminently qualified to comment -- and his views may shift over time when new information comes in. Poor guy, I honestly don't understand the vitriol aimed at him.

The New York Post -- what a "newspaper!"  Here are some recent stories that I find pretty good: https://nypost.com/tag/weird-but-true/

In particular, I like the story of the woman who has to stop selling her farts because she thought she gave herself a heart attack. Here's a quote: "She had a fart attack. A reality TV star who launched a gassy venture peddling her fancy flatulence to strangers Stephanie Matto, 31, blew away people on social media when she recently announced that she makes more than $50,000 a week selling her farts." Pretty good source for entertainment, maybe not the best source for unbiased science news. I wonder how much people would pay me for my farts?

The WE is a highly partisan paper, and the story is an editorial, not news.

Offline goodtryer

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Hypothetical question:

If I live in a country whose documentation is not accepted by a different country I wish to visit, is it ok for me to present falsified documentation from a 3rd country because it is more convenient?

Asking for a friend who likes to make his own decisions regarding government regulations but who likes to bloviate about how others should "follow the science".
"Tolerance will reach such a level that intelligent people will be banned from thinking so as not to offend the imbeciles."
-Dostoievski

1977 CB550K
1978 CB750K
1973 CB500K

Offline carnivorous chicken

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Hypothetical question:

If I live in a country whose documentation is not accepted by a different country I wish to visit, is it ok for me to present falsified documentation from a 3rd country because it is more convenient?

Asking for a friend who likes to make his own decisions regarding government regulations but who likes to bloviate about how others should "follow the science".

If this is meant to be a personal attack, I'm afraid it misses the mark. I didn't travel to the UK on "falsified documentation." Rather, I was issued a CDC card that accepted my Mexican vaccinations and noted them after I got my booster in the USA. Nobody falsified anything, I was simply lucky the CDC noted my (legitimate) vaccinations received in Mexico. I'm kinda stoked you consider us friends, though! I wasn't sure about that.

Please, guy, don't continue to try to make this personal and misstate stuff. Stick to the topic. The New York Post story was pretty good I thought. For the sake of levity, here's another: https://nypost.com/2021/12/05/bomb-squad-rushes-to-hospital-after-wwii-era-shell-found-in-mans-rectum/

A man in England apparently had a World War II shell jammed up his rectum. A lot of questions about that one. Apparently he "slipped and fell" on it.

Offline goodtryer

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Speaking of sticking to the topic:

Apparently holding your breath is the new science:  https://deadline.com/2022/02/l-a-mayor-garcetti-says-he-held-his-breath-for-maskless-photo-with-magic-johnson-1234925457/

"Tolerance will reach such a level that intelligent people will be banned from thinking so as not to offend the imbeciles."
-Dostoievski

1977 CB550K
1978 CB750K
1973 CB500K