Author Topic: A place to respectfully discuss your feelings on vaccines and mandates thereof.  (Read 8259 times)

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Offline goodtryer

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Hypothetical question:

If I live in a country whose documentation is not accepted by a different country I wish to visit, is it ok for me to present falsified documentation from a 3rd country because it is more convenient?

Asking for a friend who likes to make his own decisions regarding government regulations but who likes to bloviate about how others should "follow the science".
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Offline carnivorous chicken

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Hypothetical question:

If I live in a country whose documentation is not accepted by a different country I wish to visit, is it ok for me to present falsified documentation from a 3rd country because it is more convenient?

Asking for a friend who likes to make his own decisions regarding government regulations but who likes to bloviate about how others should "follow the science".

If this is meant to be a personal attack, I'm afraid it misses the mark. I didn't travel to the UK on "falsified documentation." Rather, I was issued a CDC card that accepted my Mexican vaccinations and noted them after I got my booster in the USA. Nobody falsified anything, I was simply lucky the CDC noted my (legitimate) vaccinations received in Mexico. I'm kinda stoked you consider us friends, though! I wasn't sure about that.

Please, guy, don't continue to try to make this personal and misstate stuff. Stick to the topic. The New York Post story was pretty good I thought. For the sake of levity, here's another: https://nypost.com/2021/12/05/bomb-squad-rushes-to-hospital-after-wwii-era-shell-found-in-mans-rectum/

A man in England apparently had a World War II shell jammed up his rectum. A lot of questions about that one. Apparently he "slipped and fell" on it.

Offline goodtryer

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Speaking of sticking to the topic:

Apparently holding your breath is the new science:  https://deadline.com/2022/02/l-a-mayor-garcetti-says-he-held-his-breath-for-maskless-photo-with-magic-johnson-1234925457/

"Tolerance will reach such a level that intelligent people will be banned from thinking so as not to offend the imbeciles."
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Offline goodtryer

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Gosh, the science of deaths and death rates is complex. I wonder how the U.S. compares with Mexico?

Is Johns Hopkins a good scientific source?

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality




"Tolerance will reach such a level that intelligent people will be banned from thinking so as not to offend the imbeciles."
-Dostoievski

1977 CB550K
1978 CB750K
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Offline goodtryer

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Hypothetical question:

If I live in a country whose documentation is not accepted by a different country I wish to visit, is it ok for me to present falsified documentation from a 3rd country because it is more convenient?

Asking for a friend who likes to make his own decisions regarding government regulations but who likes to bloviate about how others should "follow the science".

If this is meant to be a personal attack, I'm afraid it misses the mark. I didn't travel to the UK on "falsified documentation." Rather, I was issued a CDC card that accepted my Mexican vaccinations and noted them after I got my booster in the USA. Nobody falsified anything, I was simply lucky the CDC noted my (legitimate) vaccinations received in Mexico. I'm kinda stoked you consider us friends, though! I wasn't sure about that.

I'm sure you fully explained your luck to the border agent in the UK.
"Tolerance will reach such a level that intelligent people will be banned from thinking so as not to offend the imbeciles."
-Dostoievski

1977 CB550K
1978 CB750K
1973 CB500K

Offline Don R

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 Wow, the US is doing pretty good considering the number of folks that won't seek medical care so as to not indebt their family.
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Offline carnivorous chicken

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Gosh, the science of deaths and death rates is complex. I wonder how the U.S. compares with Mexico?

Is Johns Hopkins a good scientific source?

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

I'm actually glad you brought this up, even though we were only talking about the US, because comparisons can help us understand things if we understand the comparison being made. The chart you showed was observed case mortality. That means that out of the people who were sick with Covid, how many died. As you would expect, a poor country like Mexico (with a GDP per capita of around $8,000US, about 1/8 of the US) has a higher observed mortality rate among people who caught Covid, for obvious reasons: it's a poor country and the medical infrastructure was overwhelmed and unprepared.

But if you go back to the site you got that from and click on the other tab, you'll see deaths per 100,000 people (not just a figure of people who got Covid but the entire population). There, the United States if fourth and Mexico is ninth. But, and this is important as the article I linked to shows, in terms of developed countries the USA is in a class by itself. The countries above and immediately below, such as Brazil, Peru, even Poland and Italy, have per capita GDPs that are fractions of the USA. That was the point: the US is a developed and wealthy country, and among its developed peers it stands out in its failure to reduce the toll of Covid. The failure is due to several factors, of course: as Don points out, some people simply cannot afford medical care. But one also has to put the blame at policies and politicization of Covid, things like refusal to take precautions or get vaccinated.

Offline BomberMann650

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Apparently the Javelinas are better off.


Offline goodtryer

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Quote
But if you go back to the site you got that from and click on the other tab, you'll see deaths per 100,000 people (not just a figure of people who got Covid but the entire population).

Pretty soon there will only be 99.8% of us left. Such pandemic...

So deaths among people who got it are a less valid measure than deaths among all people including those who didn't get it. No cherry pickin' here. Maybe we should start measuring traffic fatality percentage among the entire population, not just those on the roads. By this rationale, motorcycles would no doubt be one of the safest modes of travel!

Looks like those Europeans are done with "the science". They must have such dramatically different outcomes than the rest of the planet. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/europe/europe-nears-ceasefire-covid-countries-relax-restrictions-rcna14878



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-Dostoievski

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Offline carnivorous chicken

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But if you go back to the site you got that from and click on the other tab, you'll see deaths per 100,000 people (not just a figure of people who got Covid but the entire population).

Pretty soon there will only be 99.8% of us left. Such pandemic...

So deaths among people who got it are a less valid measure than deaths among all people including those who didn't get it. No cherry pickin' here. Maybe we should start measuring traffic fatality percentage among the entire population, not just those on the roads. By this rationale, motorcycles would no doubt be one of the safest modes of travel!

Looks like those Europeans are done with "the science". They must have such dramatically different outcomes than the rest of the planet. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/europe/europe-nears-ceasefire-covid-countries-relax-restrictions-rcna14878

I don't think you understand the point I am making, because it's not about validity of measures.

And if you want to talk about Europe, and make a comparison, you should also compare rates of vaccination -- which is directly correlated with how many people die if they contract Covid. And yes, they do have dramatically different outcomes than the rest of the planet, but also more importantly the United States.

You can't just fling poo against the wall and hope something sticks.

Offline goodtryer

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By golly, you're right! They do have different outcomes.

Israel, with those ever-shifting vaccine mandate requirements and over 90% compliance has so much better results than non-lockdown, voluntary vaccine Sweden! Yay!!

Spain & France are certainly kicking Sweden's butt. The graph lines going up, up, and away are good, right?


"Tolerance will reach such a level that intelligent people will be banned from thinking so as not to offend the imbeciles."
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Offline Terry in Australia

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I remember seeing the story last year about Robert LaMay, the Washington cop who publicly resigned rather than get vaccinated. I saw him interviewed on Fox News and apparently he had his 15 minutes of fame on various TV and internet channels as an anti vaccine spokesman. Not that ironically really considering the amount of folks who have succumbed to the virus, Robert died from Covid-19 just 4 months later, on January the 28th.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/4567234/washington-state-trooper-robert-lamay-death/#:~:text=RETIRED%20Washington%20State%20Patrol%20officer%2C%20Robert%20LaMay%2C%20passed,State%20Trooper%2C%20Robert%20LaMay%2C%20passed%20away%20from%20COVID-19
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So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

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Offline carnivorous chicken

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Spain & France are certainly kicking Sweden's butt. The graph lines going up, up, and away are good, right?

This is good, you've noticed a different result and some correlation between a couple factors. Now, are there any other factors, or do you think that Israel instituting measures against Covid is what caused their cases to go up? Or do you think that Spain and France's mask mandates caused those countries to spike in Covid cases six months later? We've talked about Sweden before, and you seemed to have a tough time with it, like thinking because Sweden is bigger it should have more cases than Norway, even though it is twice as big and has five times as many cases. Is Sweden, for example, doing anything to mitigate Covid? For example limiting public gatherings or requiring masks on public transit? Does Sweden, for example, have higher rates of vaccination than, say, Israel?

Offline goodtryer

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I remember seeing the story last year about Robert LaMay, the Washington cop who publicly resigned rather than get vaccinated. I saw him interviewed on Fox News and apparently he had his 15 minutes of fame on various TV and internet channels as an anti vaccine spokesman. Not that ironically really considering the amount of folks who have succumbed to the virus, Robert died from Covid-19 just 4 months later, on January the 28th.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/4567234/washington-state-trooper-robert-lamay-death/#:~:text=RETIRED%20Washington%20State%20Patrol%20officer%2C%20Robert%20LaMay%2C%20passed,State%20Trooper%2C%20Robert%20LaMay%2C%20passed%20away%20from%20COVID-19

Anecdotes are fun!

Did anyone die as a result of receiving the vaccines?  Who can say?  https://www.newsweek.com/covid-vaccine-deaths-cause-pfizer-moderna-fact-check-966-died-1574447

Have there been any excess deaths in Mexico? Could it be that their supposedly-better-than-the-US performance is due to underreporting? Who knows? https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/mexico-reported-193170-excess-deaths-sept-26-73827350

"Mexican health authorities acknowledged Sunday that the country's true death toll from the coronavirus pandemic is far higher than thought, saying there were 193,170 “excess” deaths in the year up to Sept. 26, with 139,153 of those judged to be attributable to COVID-19.

That is about 50,000 more deaths than Mexico’s official, test-confirmed death toll of about 89,000, and about 56% higher than the previous estimate of 103,882 pandemic deaths."


¡Olé!
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Offline carnivorous chicken

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Have there been any excess deaths in the USA?

¡Yeehaw!

Fixed it for you.

Offline BomberMann650

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By contrast, have only found one reported instance of a human being killed by a javelina

Offline carnivorous chicken

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By contrast, have only found one reported instance of a human being killed by a javelina

Good news, although they certainly seem to try. I kept my distance when I saw those things.

Offline goodtryer

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Have there been any excess deaths in the USA?

¡Yeehaw!

Fixed it for you.

Better quality than all of your other non-responses. Well done! Didn't even have to use fraudulent paperwork.
"Tolerance will reach such a level that intelligent people will be banned from thinking so as not to offend the imbeciles."
-Dostoievski

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Offline scottly

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Gosh, the science of deaths and death rates is complex. I wonder how the U.S. compares with Mexico?

Is Johns Hopkins a good scientific source?

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
Just for comparison, by the same standards Navajo County AZ ranks up there with Columbia..
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Offline Terry in Australia

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I remember seeing the story last year about Robert LaMay, the Washington cop who publicly resigned rather than get vaccinated. I saw him interviewed on Fox News and apparently he had his 15 minutes of fame on various TV and internet channels as an anti vaccine spokesman. Not that ironically really considering the amount of folks who have succumbed to the virus, Robert died from Covid-19 just 4 months later, on January the 28th.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/4567234/washington-state-trooper-robert-lamay-death/#:~:text=RETIRED%20Washington%20State%20Patrol%20officer%2C%20Robert%20LaMay%2C%20passed,State%20Trooper%2C%20Robert%20LaMay%2C%20passed%20away%20from%20COVID-19

Anecdotes are fun!

Did anyone die as a result of receiving the vaccines? 

Actually I’m pretty sure some did die after receiving the Pfizer(?) vaccine? But having said that, here in Oz with one of the world’s lowest Covid-19 mortality rates, it’s not coincidental that we also have one of the world’s highest vaccination rates. Let’s face it mate, you’re better off getting the jab, than not.

If you get Covid (and there’s a very good chance you will) your chances of survival are much higher if you’re vaccinated. All Mexican statistics aside. ;D
« Last Edit: February 05, 2022, 09:56:38 PM by Terry in Australia »
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline BomberMann650

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By contrast, have only found one reported instance of a human being killed by a javelina

Good news, although they certainly seem to try. I kept my distance when I saw those things.

There are numerous accounts of people having survived Javelina attacks.  Usually when out walking their dog.

Offline scottly

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I knew a guy here who convinced his buddy to sic his "bad ass" pit bull on a Javelina he had snared. The Javelina won by slashing open the poor dog's underbelly open with it's tusks, which led to the immediate end of their friendship.   
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Offline BomberMann650

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I knew a guy here who convinced his buddy to sic his "bad ass" pit bull on a Javelina he had snared. The Javelina won by slashing open the poor dog's underbelly open with it's tusks, which led to the immediate end of their friendship.

That poor dog.

Nothing fights quite like a feral beast hell bent on survival.

Offline ekpent

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 If the Rogan vid is correct I did not know the the J in Javelina was pronounced as an H. I had a 1969 Big Bad Orange edition AMC Javelin back in the day. Wonder if I was pronouncing it wrong all these years ?  ;D

Offline Shopdog

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I came across this a while back and it pretty much explains why I didn't get vaxxed.