Author Topic: Which brake pad material works best:semi-mettalic or sintered metal ?  (Read 1222 times)

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Offline grcamna2

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I want to replace the brake pads on my bike and I'm using the stock caliper and stock SS OEM rotor which is still in good shape.
I have a choice between semi metallic or sintered metal brake pads.Which ones seem to grab better on this type of application in your experience ?
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Which brake pad material works best:semi-mettalic or sintered metal ?
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2022, 04:14:27 PM »
Not used a lot of these on bikes.  But, I have on cars with drum brakes.  My findings:
Stock pads were asbestos.  These would fade with heat and water ingress.  And, the drum would wear slowly.

I learned about Velvatouch Linings.  These were sintered metal.  Touted as having no speed fade, no heat fade, and no water fade.  I put these on a 55 Chevy, a 61 ford galaxie, and a 65 Mustang.  True to advertising, brakes were very good and performed WAY better than stock asbestos, no speed fade, no heat fade, and no water fade.  I once did repeated acceleration to 60 and max brake to 10 MPH 10 times in a row in that 55 Chev.  Brakes were always there, but smelled funny.  I got out to see the drums glowing red and the paint on the rims was burning/ blistering off.   I was impressed.  It was explained that, that asbestos linings don't conduct heat very well through the lining. All the dissipation must go to the outside of the drum.  But, with metallics, heat could dissipate into the shoe backing as well.  I know for a while NASCAR was using Ceramic shoes, on drum brakes, for both heat dissipation and part survival to keep the shoes from welding to the drum using metallic linings.

The down side of metallic linings is that they do wear out the drums faster, sometimes you can get brake squeal, and if the brakes are put away wet, and allowed to sit, they can rust to the drums.  So when driving in rain, I do several hard stops before parking to heat them up some and vaporize the water.

Velvatouch went out of business in the 80's, I think.  But, I found a brake shop that relined truck shoes with metallic linings on your old shoes.   I put these on a a 61 Chrysler, and my 72 Ford F-100.  I liked them and while not as easy to service as Disc brakes, served well and always have good braking qualities.  The only drum brake vehicle I have left is the Truck.  Still has the metalic linings on it.  I've towed trailers up and down mountains with it, and was thrilled to always have full braking whenever needed, especially on 6% down hills.

So, on to the SOHC4 bikes.  I don't know what the material the stock pads are made of, but they do have metal bits embedded.  My take is that the more metal you have in the pads, the more aggressive the braking/friction can be.  I have tried SBC sintered bronze pads.  But, the horrible brake squeal that developed had me going back to the stock ones.

Something to consider, is that if you are doing repeated heavy braking with metallic pads, remember they conduct heat into the piston cavity.  Dot 3 has some temperature limits that might not be compatible, and 5.1 might be a better choice if you plan to use the brakes like on a race track.  And of course, the higher the metallic density of the pad, the faster the disc is going to wear out.   Lastly I expect the pads with the most metal will have less speed fade, heat fade, and water fade than pads with lower metal content.

As to stopping power, with a change in pad only, I found that dumping the expando rubber hydraulic lines in favor of SS lines, gave me a rock hard lever, and allowed the stock pads and disc to squeal the front tire on heavy braking with lot's of hand pressure.  I really don't want to lock the front tire, as with just about any lean angle, a front tire lock will mean going down pretty quick.  I equate tire squeal with being on the limit of traction.  And I don't mind using four fingers to get that instead of the one or two finger squeeze of the the lever modern bikes have.  (of course, you can get used to it.  But then, going back is an issue)  If I could have put up with the squeal, the bronze pads did require a bit less squeeze pressure for the same braking effort.  I didn't run them long enough to notice how much more disc wear there was.

Hope this helps you make a good decision for your needs.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline eldar

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Re: Which brake pad material works best:semi-mettalic or sintered metal ?
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2022, 04:22:38 PM »
Sintered pads grab harder, but they do wear the disk more. Been a while but if I remember, I got organic pads. Not as strong of stopping, but also little rotor wear. They were ebc brand if I remember right.

Online seanbarney41

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Re: Which brake pad material works best:semi-mettalic or sintered metal ?
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2022, 04:36:48 PM »
I can't see disk wear being a problem on any sohc4 bikes...
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Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: Which brake pad material works best:semi-mettalic or sintered metal ?
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2022, 05:50:57 PM »

Shamelessly copied from an EBC website. Good info:

Sintered Brake Pads

Sintered brake pads have now become the most popular type of brake pads, and in fact, they have become standard Original Equipment on 99% of motorcycles from the manufacturers.  One of the reasons that the manufacturers have opted to equip their bikes with sintered brakes is because they will cover the broadest spectrum of conditions that a rider may encounter.  So what is a “sintered” brake pad?  Sintering is the fusing of metallic particles under heat and pressure to create a compound that is very resistant to friction.  Some brands like EBC Brakes use copper in their blend to achieve the best results.

EBC Sintered Brake PadsThe race track is where sintered motorcycle brakes shine above all other types.  Because racers are heavy on the brakes, more heat is generated.  This is also true for riders in the city and on very hilly terrain.  The nearly pure metal construction of sintered brake pads provides a stable coefficient of friction from hot to cold.  This cuts down on warm-up time and the pads will produce good bite right away.  They can also handle the extreme heat from a lot of brake use and will not fade.  Not only will these pads perform well under extreme heat stress, but they will typically last longer than any other type.  Sintered brake pads are an excellent choice if you regularly experience varying riding conditions.  They can perform well in just about any weather condition, including rain, snow and mud, because of their porous nature.

While all of the positives of sintered brake pads are appealing, they do have their drawbacks.  One of these is the wear and tear that they put on rotors.  In fact, if your bike’s rotors are not made to be used with sintered pads, you should absolutely not use them.  Sintered pads produce more wear on rotors because they are so hard.  If you are a casual rider who likes to opt for the easiest maintenance on your bike, you might want to choose organic pads because it is easier to change pads than it is rotors.  Sintered pads are also louder than organics when the brakes are applied.  You can expect to pay more for sintered pads because the materials and the processes used to make them are more expensive.

Organic Brake Pads

For the casual rider, organic brake pads are a solid choice.  They are made from a mix of fibers and fillers that are bound together with a resin.  Companies like EBC Brakes have begun to add higher tech fiber components like Kevlar and carbon to increase the durability of the pads.  While organic pads are not the pad of choice for OE, they can be the right choice for you if they fit your style of riding.

EBC Kevlar Brake PadsOne of the biggest advantages that riders enjoy from organic motorcycle brake pads is their “feel.”  The softer makeup of these pads provides the rider with a more varied and progressive feel when the brakes are applied, contrary to the abrupt bite of sintered pads.  The low initial bite of the pads will give you more control at lower speeds.  Another benefit of organic pads is that they produce very little wear on rotors, as mentioned above.  This is great for the guy who doesn’t want to replace rotors often or if your rotors are not suited for sintered pads.  The softer materials that are used to make organic brake pads make them far quieter than other types.  Organic pads are also a good choice for show quality bikes.  They will not damage the shine of the rotors as quickly and organic pads produce very little brake dust.  The little that they do create can be wiped away quite easily.  They are generally cheaper than sintered because the materials and processes used are less expensive.

Of course, organic brake pads have their downsides too.  You will have to change these pads far more often than you would with sintered pads.  The softer make-up of the organic pads allows them to be worn away more rapidly.  Another downside is that they are not as tolerant to excessive heat.  Organic pads will lose their coefficient of friction very quickly once they reach their max operating temperature and will burn up fairly fast.  If ridden in wet or muddy conditions, organic brake pads will not be able to perform to their full potential and can even build up a “glaze” on the outside that can hinder your future braking ability, even in dry conditions.

Semi-Sintered Brake Pads

If you’re looking for brake pads that are the best of both worlds, the semi-sintered pads from EBC could be what you are after.  They combine the long life of a sintered pads with the progressive feel and lack of rotor wear of organic.  The construction of the semi- sintered pads is 30 percent copper by weight within an organic matrix.  These pads fill fall right in the middle for durability and performance and are a good compromise if you are struggling to decide between sintered and organic.  You can even replace both types with the semi-sintered pads from EBC.

Offline Alan F.

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Re: Which brake pad material works best:semi-mettalic or sintered metal ?
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2022, 06:21:59 PM »
It would appear semi-sintered are up to 30% copper with organic. Semi-metallic are more metals than just copper, not sure of the percentages though.

On my CM400C I used Sintered Metallic from EBC (single disc, twin piston caliper) front and (drum) rear, braking was Very Good, but I also downsized my master cylinder from 5/8" (15.875mm) to 11mm and used a rubber brake line. Feel & feedback were also very good and 2 finger braking was the norm.

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Which brake pad material works best:semi-mettalic or sintered metal ?
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2022, 06:35:07 PM »
It would appear semi-sintered are up to 30% copper with organic. Semi-metallic are more metals than just copper, not sure of the percentages though.

On my CM400C I used Sintered Metallic from EBC (single disc, twin piston caliper) front and (drum) rear, braking was Very Good, but I also downsized my master cylinder from 5/8" (15.875mm) to 11mm and used a rubber brake line. Feel & feedback were also very good and 2 finger braking was the norm.

Ok
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Which brake pad material works best:semi-mettalic or sintered metal ?
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2022, 07:50:37 PM »
My comment about 'organic' pads for the CB750 in my book....I still stand by that. pg. IIIB-9.
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Online RAFster122s

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Re: Which brake pad material works best:semi-mettalic or sintered metal ?
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2022, 07:52:39 PM »
Not having your book I am unable to glean from that knowledge...
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Offline Tim2005

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Re: Which brake pad material works best:semi-mettalic or sintered metal ?
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2022, 11:09:00 AM »
What brands are we talking about here? The only sintered or metallic (I'm not at all sure there is a standard definition of both those terms, I view them as interchangeable) pads I have found available for our SOHC's calipers are by AP and EBC, who both supply semi-sintered ones. I have tried them both and feel they, although different to each other, offer much better braking than anything else I have found.

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Which brake pad material works best:semi-mettalic or sintered metal ?
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2022, 12:29:37 PM »
Any of you using the ceramic SBS pads?
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Offline grcamna2

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Re: Which brake pad material works best:semi-mettalic or sintered metal ?
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2022, 12:59:06 PM »
Any of you using the ceramic SBS pads?

Delta,Which style front disc brake pads are you using on your CB500 ?
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Which brake pad material works best:semi-mettalic or sintered metal ?
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2022, 01:20:27 PM »
The ones that need replacing  :D. They're Honda pads. Recently I have posted this: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,188508.msg2189134.html#msg2189134
« Last Edit: January 13, 2022, 01:24:47 PM by Deltarider »
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Offline scottly

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Re: Which brake pad material works best:semi-mettalic or sintered metal ?
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2022, 07:10:44 PM »
There is a rating system for the friction coefficient of different pad materials. The first letter is for cold conditions, IIRC, and the second is when hot; for what it's worth, all the pads I've seen recently have both letters the same, but the semi-metallic shoes Lloyd mentioned were known to lack grip when cold and got better with heat. FF pads are the least grippy, GG pads are in the middle, and are the standard EBC pads for the twin piston calipers Alan mentioned, and HH pads have the most grip.
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Offline grcamna2

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Re: Which brake pad material works best:semi-mettalic or sintered metal ?
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2022, 07:47:26 PM »
What brands are we talking about here? The only sintered or metallic (I'm not at all sure there is a standard definition of both those terms, I view them as interchangeable) pads I have found available for our SOHC's calipers are by AP and EBC, who both supply semi-sintered ones. I have tried them both and feel they, although different to each other, offer much better braking than anything else I have found.

I'm considering a pair of Vesrah sintered metal pads on Ebay but considering what Scottly mentioned about bringing them up to temp to work best,I may just get some semi-metallic pads.
The 'semi-sintered' posted by John at the bottom of his post from the EBC website seems like the best choice.  8)
« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 03:06:05 PM by grcamna2 »
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline PeWe

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Re: Which brake pad material works best:semi-mettalic or sintered metal ?
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2022, 03:40:57 AM »
Best pads has been up here several times when sesrching.
One bad experience of EBC  here
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,172027.msg2003661.html#msg2003661

My CB750 K2 got Vesrah Green pads, VD102
Better than the previous cheap ones.

Like oil, we need a good list with alternatives. The hard stock rotors need grippy pads.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 10:09:34 PM by PeWe »
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Offline grcamna2

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Re: Which brake pad material works best:semi-mettalic or sintered metal ?
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2022, 05:43:27 AM »
Best pads has been up here several times when sesrching.
One bad experience of EBC  here
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,172027.msg2003661.html#msg2003661

My CB750 K2 got Vesrah Green pads, VD102
Better than the privous cheap ones.

Like oil, we need a good list with alternatives. The hard stock rotors need grippy pads.

The Vesrah VD102 are organic pads and I would like some pads that are a bit more aggressive and bite into this slippery SS OEM rotor.
Do they sell pads to fit our sohc4's that are semi-sintered? I like the description of them posted by John/BenelliSEI.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 05:51:20 AM by grcamna2 »
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Which brake pad material works best:semi-mettalic or sintered metal ?
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2022, 05:56:37 AM »
Any of you using the ceramic SBS pads?

Do they require special rotors to operate most effectively and need plenty of heat to grab best ?
I imagine at least cast iron rotors?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 06:03:39 AM by grcamna2 »
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline eldar

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Re: Which brake pad material works best:semi-mettalic or sintered metal ?
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2022, 02:16:45 PM »
Fwiw, I've never felt under-braked using organics. Ymmv.

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Which brake pad material works best:semi-mettalic or sintered metal ?
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2022, 10:43:20 PM »
Any more experiences with different brand pads such as semi-sintered and how they perform at all different temps ?
Did they bite into the OEM SS rotors for a good grip ?
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.