Topic: Rechroming parts (pictures attached) Update new parts!!!!

[Raul CB750K1]

I took some parts to rechroming a couple of weeks ago. I had no experience with this shop, but when I got there I saw a lot of work going done, specially for big companies such as beer taps for a big spanish beer brand. That lead me to think they were good as big companies would not give business to people without the proper experience or knowledge.

These are the parts I took




I finally took a couple of covers out -because I had replacement- and this is what I got today. 50 euros for everything you see in this picture.






Looks impressing, doesn't it? But it doesn't stand a close look. There was a lot of pitting visible in spite of the new chrome. I couldn't help not to show my disillusion and asked how come it turned out this way. Have a look at the gas cap






And the carburettor cap




Even the blinker stem was uneven in the surface




I just thought they haven't prepared the parts as they should have, because they should have enough experience to know how a part must be prepared to get a good result. It's true that they guy already warned me that maybe some pitting would remain in the carburettor caps, but I didn't think the blinkers would turn out so bad.


I still believed they didn't prepared the parts well. The guy told me -a guy with a dirty overall and black nails, I mean, a guy who seem to know what he does- that sometimes the pitting is below the chrome, and no matter how much you sand and polish, there is still some pores in the metal that will show up when the part is chromed due to the current. According to what he said, when the part is thin -as the carburettor caps- they can't simply sand because they run the risk to sand across the metal. When the parts are thicker they get good results, and I have to admit that the stem nut and the fork leg caps turned out good, as well as the washers.

Regarding the blinkers and gas cap, he told me they were made out of a material called something like "zamak" and it doesn't take chrome good. I thought it was just bull#$%* because they took good chrome when they were first manufactured. I took some other parts with me for chroming too and was thinking aboug going somewhere else, but this other parts are from my Sanglas bike and they were in a better shape so I just said "WTF, I don't want to look for another chrome shop, let's see how this new parts turn out- and left them.


On my way home I stopped to drink a coffee and had a look at the parts. I noticed two things that escaped me before: the rivet in the center of the carburettor caps were gone, as well as the splines in the blinker body!!!!



I was near the shop so I returned and asked for explanations. the guy told me that he couldn't avoid to ruin the rivets when sanding the caps in the belt sander -that's when I realized they had indeed sanded and polished the parts as he said. According to him, they first remove the chrome, the previous layer -can't remember what was it made of-, gradually sand in two grades, polish to remove the sandpaper scratches, and then rechroming. The missing rivets seemed to prove they were right.

Regarding the blinker splines, he freaked out. The stem had the splines in good condition, but the splines of the blinker body were gone. He told me he did nothing inside, but the zamak doesn't accept chrome so it has to be covered with copper first, and then chrome -that is true because I tried to polish one sometime ago and below the chrome there was copper. According to him, probably the copper had covered the splines. I tried to force the stem inside and the scratches in the body were copper coloured.


Long story short, I spent 50 euros for a gas cap and four blinkers I can't use. Fortunately, it is still cheaper than the two fork caps alone. My question is: have you ever rechromed parts like these? How were your results?

[dagersh]

Raul,who is more experi

FWIW - I don't thnk these guys prepped your parts very well at all.  I have seen parts is much worse condition come back flawless.  I would search around for somebody more experienced in restoration work for any other jobs.  Bring these newly done parts with you to show them how you do NOT want your parts to come out.

Just my $0.02

Gersh

[Steve F]

Replating to flawlless is very expensive and time consuming, requiring several copper plating and buffing cycles to get the pits refilled up to the rest of the surface, then the nickel and then the chrome.

[bwaller]

That's a bloody shame, it certainly doesn't seem very professional.  Definitely looks like you got the Friday afternoon special, I don't have much experience, but it seems like that's not alot of money for what you had done. I'll look around I may have some carb diaphragm covers I can give you. Will the flashers not clamp tightly enough to the stems?

I just took some stuff to a local chromer here and just about swallowed my tonque when he started filling out prices on the work order, $75 CDN for a 400F rear brake pedal as an example. I brought half the parts home.

[Raul CB750K1]

I belong to a spanish Sanglas club and one of the things the club board tried a while ago was to find some agreements with chrome shops so the members could get a discount. The problem with that is that there is no such thing as a "price table" with chrome because it always depends on what's the condition of the part, or even what's the mood of the guy that day! So if you go there and ask for the "club rate", how would you know you are indeed getting a discount?

I honestly don't know what to think on this subject because this has been the first time I take parts to rechrome and doesn't have any previous experience. I want to believe the guy because he seemed to know what he talked about and the parts around there were looking good, so they know how to do a good job. I agree that some of the parts were in a sorry state, and the blinkers are not made of iron or brass so it is more difficult to do the job with them.

I'm not worried about the blinkers because I have replacement. What I don't have replacement is of the diaphragm covers. Fortunately, they are partially hidden under the tank so it really takes a deep scrutiny to find the pitting once installed. The fork caps and stem nut are very good. The washers still have the ripples but it doesn't make sense to sand that because the ripples will be hidden by the nut again. I tried to put the stem into the blinkers and they won't come in; probably prying opening it will make them fit, but I don't think I'll do it because I have a replacement. I also have replacement of the gas cap; I took them to chrome thinking they could be recoverable so I could have some spare parts.


They price didn't seem expensive to me because I know the price is not actually because of the chrome applied, but instead because of the preparation work. I knew beforehand that the preparation was key and shaped a little with a file the fork nuts because somebody used an adjustable wrench and the walls were a little damaged. But when I tried to sand the pitting in the fork caps and the stem nut it was hard, so I thought: "WTH, they know how to deal with this, I'm not doing a job I will be charged anyway". And the pitting in the stem nut and fork nuts is indeed gone.


I left two Sanglas brake hubs for polishing -they have good setup for polishing and I can't take more dirt thrown to my face, and some other parts for chroming that were originally painted, so whatever the result is I will have nothing to compare with but they are made of iron so, theoretically, the result should be good. The problem with chrome shops is that their bread-and-butter are orders from big companies. This small jobs have for them a bigger revenue but at the same time it can be a pain in the back. So you really are between the hammer and the anvil in this situation because if you find out you have been cheated there is not much you can do. Not even telling your friends not to go there; they have still enough business.


I'm really starting to get pissed with this restoration. Every single bolt, washer, spring, everything, was in need of attention. Starter relay, wire loom, blinkers, everything. Once you have put yourself a level, you can't just accept anything below it. And I'm not even doing a perfect restoration, but the mere thought of thinking there is no way to get something better out of this parts pisses me off. What would happen then if you are restoring a bike from the fifties, when there is no chance to find replacements?

[oldbiker]

Raul, when parts are re-chromed, the only way to get rid of pitting is to either copper plate several times with polishing in between layers until the pits are filled and follow up with nickel and finally chrome and polish  OR sand and polish until the surface has been lowered to the level of the bottom of the pits, copper,nickel and chrome etc.
Obviously this second method is not possible with very thin items.
I think that 50 euros for what you had done is not excessive. When I restored a CA95 ( picture attached) the chroming I had done cost about twice what you paid relatively. That was UK pricing and about 10 years ago so was really more expensive.
Beat wishes from old_biker.

[Raul CB750K1]

Raul, when parts are re-chromed, the only way to get rid of pitting is to either copper plate several times with polishing in between layers until the pits are filled and follow up with nickel and finally chrome and polish  OR sand and polish until the surface has been lowered to the level of the bottom of the pits, copper,nickel and chrome etc.
Obviously this second method is not possible with very thin items.
I think that 50 euros for what you had done is not excessive. When I restored a CA95 ( picture attached) the chroming I had done cost about twice what you paid relatively. That was UK pricing and about 10 years ago so was really more expensive.
Beat wishes from old_biker.

Hey John, thanks for your reply. That's more or less what the guy told me. I had no previous experience with chrome plating but the price didn't seem expensive to me. I guess I can live with the pitting in the diaphragm covers because they are almost hidden but I don't know wether I will use the blinkers. I guess the only thing I've lost is the money because they were already lost anyway...

[bryanj]

Raul, if memory servs me right new blinkers dont hsve a spline in them they "aquire" one when tightened down onto the stem

[andy750]

Bryan,
That may be true for original Honda blinkers but I got some new aftermarket ones from Japan (www.yamiya750.com) and they had the spline already in the blinker. But I think you are right in that they should still be usable.

cheers
Andy

[pelicanwheel]

I've had many many parts plated with my 76 cb750 restoration and what I have learned is that platers are just like auto repair people.  The more business I gave my local plater, the higher his prices became.  I accepted it, in that they were still reasonable. I took a rear tail light bracket in to be plated and it came out pitted.  I had him reddo it.  I told him that based on everything I was doing to the bike (and he damn well knew this base on the hundreds of dollars I spent with him alone) he should have known that the pitting was not acceptable.  He described the process with the copper like others here did.  I didn't care.  I told him I wanted a good plate job, and he told me the original  price, I agreed and would not except the subpar job he did.  He did correct it at no additional cost.

Pelican

[crazypj]

I took some parts to rechroming a couple of weeks ago. I had no experience with this shop, but when I got there I saw a lot of work going done, specially for big companies such as beer taps for a big spanish beer brand. That lead me to think they were good as big companies would not give business to people without the proper experience or knowledge.

I finally took a couple of covers out -because I had replacement- and this is what I got today. 50 euros for everything you see in this picture.


[


Looks impressing, doesn't it? But it doesn't stand a close look. There was a lot of pitting visible in spite of the new chrome. I couldn't help not to show my disillusion and asked how come it turned out this way. Have a look at the gas cap






And the carburettor cap




Even the blinker stem was uneven in the surface




I just thought they haven't prepared the parts as they should have, because they should have enough experience to know how a part must be prepared to get a good result. It's true that they guy already warned me that maybe some pitting would remain in the carburettor caps, but I didn't think the blinkers would turn out so bad.


I still believed they didn't prepared the parts well. The guy told me -a guy with a dirty overall and black nails, I mean, a guy who seem to know what he does- that sometimes the pitting is below the chrome, and no matter how much you sand and polish, there is still some pores in the metal that will show up when the part is chromed due to the current. According to what he said, when the part is thin -as the carburettor caps- they can't simply sand because they run the risk to sand across the metal. When the parts are thicker they get good results, and I have to admit that the stem nut and the fork leg caps turned out good, as well as the washers.

Regarding the blinkers and gas cap, he told me they were made out of a material called something like "zamak" and it doesn't take chrome good. I thought it was just bull#$%* because they took good chrome when they were first manufactured. I took some other parts with me for chroming too and was thinking aboug going somewhere else, but this other parts are from my Sanglas bike and they were in a better shape so I just said "WTF, I don't want to look for another chrome shop, let's see how this new parts turn out- and left them.


On my way home I stopped to drink a coffee and had a look at the parts. I noticed two things that escaped me before: the rivet in the center of the carburettor caps were gone, as well as the splines in the blinker body!!!!



I was near the shop so I returned and asked for explanations. the guy told me that he couldn't avoid to ruin the rivets when sanding the caps in the belt sander -that's when I realized they had indeed sanded and polished the parts as he said. According to him, they first remove the chrome, the previous layer -can't remember what was it made of-, gradually sand in two grades, polish to remove the sandpaper scratches, and then rechroming. The missing rivets seemed to prove they were right.

Regarding the blinker splines, he freaked out. The stem had the splines in good condition, but the splines of the blinker body were gone. He told me he did nothing inside, but the zamak doesn't accept chrome so it has to be covered with copper first, and then chrome -that is true because I tried to polish one sometime ago and below the chrome there was copper. According to him, probably the copper had covered the splines. I tried to force the stem inside and the scratches in the body were copper coloured.


Long story short, I spent 50 euros for a gas cap and four blinkers I can't use. Fortunately, it is still cheaper than the two fork caps alone. My question is: have you ever rechromed parts like these? How were your results?

I removed the pictures, anyone interested can scroll up to see them.

He probably said MAZAK (may-zack) a zinc based die casting material.
Its totally correct what he said about pitting under the chrome before you had it re-plated.
What you can see on the surface is less than a quarter of whats underneath the chrome.
About 15~20 yrs ago it was very difficult to find any one who would even attempt to re-plate mazak as its likely to dissolve in the acid solution needed to remove the chrome.
The indicator stems were probably spin polished instead of polished along length which can cause ripples in the surface trying to remove pitting ( going length-ways would also mess up the splines on end) If they are too tight, platers probably tried to build up pitting with plating) You probably should have specified taping splines as it will prevent build up
Its usual to triple plate, copper, nickel and flash chrome. To build up pits its better to use copper, soft nickel, polish, degrease, more soft nickel until pits are filled finishing with more polishing and de-greasing before chrome. Major problem with either using multi layer copper or nickel is the layers can separate (when chrome flakes off)
My father was a metal polisher for a large (ish) plating company for over 20 yrs, he picked up a lot of information and passed some of it on to me ( even worked as a polisher one summer holiday, was dirty and smelly enough for me to pick another career )
For those who complained, have you ever tried polishing metal to mirror finish? The finish you see on surface is the finish the metal had before plaing.
Some of the stuff shown in other posts about polishing has taken many hours of hard work to get reasonable to good.
 For about $75.00 (50 euros) IMHO you got better than you paid for. Personally I wouldn't even have attempted to get those particular parts re-plated.
PJ

[Raul CB750K1]

Crazypj, thanks for your invaluable advice. As i said, the plater seemed knowledgeable to me, and because I didn't have any previous experience, I didn't consider appropriate to discuss with him about the quality of the plating without knowing what I was talking about.

I know that with deep pockets you can always get what you want. Before leaving the parts I asked for an estimate and, as I told him, the reason was that Honda still have replacements and it doesn't make sense to pay more for a rechroming than for a new part. That quote seemed right to me, and as I said, he told me the diaphragm covers would probably show some pitting after the plating.


Thanks everybody for your opinions. Of course everybody wants to get the best value for their money, and I'm no less, but you always have to find a compromise between quality and budget. As I left some other parts, I will post pictures in this thread when I pick them up for your information. I hope these other parts turn out good. Actually, some of them were painted with engine enamel so they will look much better regardless of the condition...


Thanks again


Raul

[USN20]

Of course everybody wants to get the best value for their money, and I'm no less, but you always have to find a compromise between quality and budget.

One money saving tip I learned from re-chroming was to have the parts just stripped of the old chrome & pre-polished. That way it can be decided if it's *worth* going to chrome tank without the additional copper, nickel, buffing steps needed to make the part right. Of course, not every part will pass your inspection and be cost effective to re-chrome properly, but at least you haven't paid full price for an unacceptable job.

[Raul CB750K1]

Of course everybody wants to get the best value for their money, and I'm no less, but you always have to find a compromise between quality and budget.

One money saving tip I learned from re-chroming was to have the parts just stripped of the old chrome & pre-polished. That way it can be decided if it's *worth* going to chrome tank without the additional copper, nickel, buffing steps needed to make the part right. Of course, not every part will pass your inspection and be cost effective to re-chrome properly, but at least you haven't paid full price for an unacceptable job.

That makes perfect sense, but not everybody have access to the chemicals to strip the chrome etc. Furthermore, for some unobtainable parts, if you want them perfectly rechromed you have to be ready to bite the bullet and pay the price, because nothing else will do. What is silly is to pay for the job more than for a new part. Do you remember a thread I opened about a "raw" sprocket that costed 80 euro to machine? Of course that money would be well deserved because it takes time, experience and professional machinery, but it's silly to pay that when you can buy a ready-to-fit sprocket for less.

My concern was to have been charged for a pro job and had been given a mediocre job. What I take from the responses here is a) putting a pitted part to original condition takes a lot of work and b) good results are more expensive that what I was charged. Let's see what happens with the rest of the parts I left. I'll post pictures for your information again.

Raul

[USN20]

That makes perfect sense, but not everybody have access to the chemicals to strip the chrome etc.

Hi Raul,

Any reputable chrome shop *should* be able to accommodate your request for stripping / pre-polishing parts as that's all part of the in-house chroming process. You just need to specify that on the work order as most shops understand what you're trying to do. (especially with questionable parts) The parts that do pass your inspection go off for the final polish & the chrome tank. Since you're already there, you may need a new work order. I'm hoping you can save some money this way and end up with good chrome parts.

Sorry for leaving that part out on my earlier reply 

John 

[Raul CB750K1]

That makes perfect sense, but not everybody have access to the chemicals to strip the chrome etc.

Hi Raul,

Any reputable chrome shop *should* be able to accommodate your request for stripping / pre-polishing parts as that's all part of the in-house chroming process. You just need to specify that on the work order as most shops understand what you're trying to do. (especially with questionable parts) The parts that do pass your inspection go off for the final polish & the chrome tank. Since you're already there, you may need a new work order. I'm hoping you can save some money this way and end up with good chrome parts.

Sorry for leaving that part out on my earlier reply 

John 

Very true, I don't think any plater would object about that, but these parts are not so critical as to deserve so much attention. In the 90 minute drive -round trip- to the plater I spend enough gas and time as to justify the expense to buy a new gas cap or even blinkers. A different thing would be if the parts would not available anymore.

Truth is I'm learning a lot on this thread about chroming, something I didn't now a thing before. Definitely, restoring a bike is not just about recovering a vehicle: you learn a lot along the way, specially about yourself -and how much patience you have-...   

[spitfire]

Hi Raul,
          A bit late as usual, I was lucky enough to find some good guys in the Electroplating business, it was pure luck as no one could recommend a firm to me, not a lot of use to you as it is in the UK, but their website is quite informative, here's a link.

http://www.rschrome.co.uk/products.html

Cheers

Dennis

[Raul CB750K1]

Well, I came today from the plater much more satisfied than the last time. Either because the parts were thicker and they could polish more, or maybe because I showed I was not satisfied so they tried harder, the parts has been this time almost perfect. Polishing the hubs and plate, the fork caps, and chroming the parts has been a total of 100 euro. Most of the parts are for my Sanglas bikes, and a few for the CB350 twin.

The hubs were dull, and the torque arms and brake arms were originally zinc plated and later spray painted. I decided to chrome plate them.



License plate holder. This is the only one that shows some pitting, but nothing really important, I can live with that.






Front fender stays...





And for the CB350, the kickstart pedal and the front brake arm. I think the kickstart pedal was not so "shiny" even when new, but hey, I like that.








Raul

[chung]

I worked in a Chrome shop for several years. Copper likes to go into the holes Nickel does not.

As stated above, it's a lot like filling in small defects with primer/paint. Spray it on... sand it off till you get a smooth surface.

Very labor intensive/expensive.