Topic: Braided Stainless Steel Oil Hoses

[Ellz10]

Wasn't sure which part of the forum this would fall under so I just opted for here.

I'm curious if anyone has bought and used these or know someone who has and if they're quality made.

They look good and all, but I want to know if they'll last and not wear and break down.

Website is Carpys Cafe Racers.

[pjlogue]

anything with a hose clamp I avoid like the plague.  On a brake or oil line especially!

-P.

[70CB750]

Guys had oil hoses made in local shops, I could never find one willing so I made them myself.

There is like zero pressure in these hoses, even with the clamp they will not fail.

[WhyNot2]

yep, no pressure. so yes, they do look good.

[Ellz10]

Guys had oil hoses made in local shops, I could never find one willing so I made them myself.

There is like zero pressure in these hoses, even with the clamp they will not fail.

yep, no pressure. so yes, they do look good.

This is probably a dumb question, but no pressure is a good thing? Why is that?

And with there being a clamp, isn't the chance of a leak much higher?

[Bankerdanny]

Guys had oil hoses made in local shops, I could never find one willing so I made them myself.

There is like zero pressure in these hoses, even with the clamp they will not fail.

yep, no pressure. so yes, they do look good.

This is probably a dumb question, but no pressure is a good thing? Why is that?

And with there being a clamp, isn't the chance of a leak much higher?

When an oil line carries pressurized oil you need a good tight seal so that you don't get leaks. If the oil has little to no pressure in the line then a snug fitting hose and a hose clamp are more than sufficient to prevent leaks.

[slikwilli420]

I would never rely on a clamp like this for something as critical as the oil supply of the engine. The scavenge pump is smaller than the feed pump but there is still pressure going to the tank upon return. Have them done right for the same money by having a shop use hydraulic crimps. My local shop tests them up to 300 psi and they always pass. It's the only way to go on a race bike, but have done the same for a street ride as well.

[Bankerdanny]

I would never rely on a clamp like this for something as critical as the oil supply of the engine. The scavenge pump is smaller than the feed pump but there is still pressure going to the tank upon return. Have them done right for the same money by having a shop use hydraulic crimps. My local shop tests them up to 300 psi and they always pass. It's the only way to go on a race bike, but have done the same for a street ride as well.

A catastrophic oil leak that would cause engine damage has a probability close to zero. I would prefer an OEM style crimped fitting as well, but with the Carpy lines a low risk of a minor leak is all you are looking at.

[seanbarney41]

don't buy stuff from Carpy...much better stuff made in China, and many of us have seen how good some that stuff is.  All he is worried about is stuff that "looks" right in pictures, no concern for real performance, function, durability, or quality.

[HondaMan]

The last set of Carpy hoses I tried to install for a friend of mine wouldn't fit. They were too big on their OD, and squishing them in between the frame and engine just pinched them half-closed. This has been an issue with the common braided hose lines since they first appeared in 1971, using braided hydraulic hose of standard inch sizes. I have rebuilt more than one 750 engine that died from trying to suck oil thru one of those hoses after it kinked shut.

This is partly why mine are being so hard to make. Honda had custom metric hosing with no steel braid inside or outside, which isn't available outside of Japan. This is probably why, so far, only the ones from Yamiya have worked.

[Ellz10]

Guys had oil hoses made in local shops, I could never find one willing so I made them myself.

There is like zero pressure in these hoses, even with the clamp they will not fail.

yep, no pressure. so yes, they do look good.

This is probably a dumb question, but no pressure is a good thing? Why is that?

And with there being a clamp, isn't the chance of a leak much higher?

When an oil line carries pressurized oil you need a good tight seal so that you don't get leaks. If the oil has little to no pressure in the line then a snug fitting hose and a hose clamp are more than sufficient to prevent leaks.

Well thank you. There's so many little, seemingly unimportant, tid bits of knowledge that I should know, but don't. I'm grateful, so thanks!

I would never rely on a clamp like this for something as critical as the oil supply of the engine. The scavenge pump is smaller than the feed pump but there is still pressure going to the tank upon return. Have them done right for the same money by having a shop use hydraulic crimps. My local shop tests them up to 300 psi and they always pass. It's the only way to go on a race bike, but have done the same for a street ride as well.

I would like to look into this. What kind of shop would do this kind of work; let me know so I can look and ask around please.

don't buy stuff from Carpy...much better stuff made in China, and many of us have seen how good some that stuff is.  All he is worried about is stuff that "looks" right in pictures, no concern for real performance, function, durability, or quality.

They look good and all, but I want to know if they'll last and not wear and break down.

I am quite interested in more than just the look. I would not sacrifice the many, many thousands of dollars I have into the engine, just to have oil hoses, or anything for that matter, that "looks good".

The last set of Carpy hoses I tried to install for a friend of mine wouldn't fit. They were too big on their OD, and squishing them in between teh frame and engine just pinched them half-closed. This has been an issue with the common braided hose lines since they first appeared in 1971, using braided hydraulic hose of standard inch sizes. I have rebuilt more than one 750 engine that died from trying to suck oil thru one of those hoses after it kinked shut.

This is partly why mine are being so hard to make. Honda had custom metric hosing with no steel braid inside or outside, which isn't available outside of Japan. This is probably why, so far, only the ones from Yamiya have worked.

Mark, did I misread that or are you inferring that you make your own oil hoses such as these?

[HondaMan]

Mark, did I misread that or are you inferring that you make your own oil hoses such as these?

I've bought the crimper and crimp rings, and gathered some old hoses to try to replace their length onto those fittings. But so far, I am missing the correct hose to make them work right. I have considered using the nearest-size hydraulic hose, which was (is?) what Carpy and others have done, but the inner steel liner of that type of hose makes the OD too large, hence the problem noted above (it is a little less pinched on the F0/1 frame arrangement. I haven't tried it on the F2/3). I was trying (for a while) to find a suitable spring to install inside the hose to preclude the collapse where it pinches against the frame, but that's not a good solution, either. I found one lousy foot of a bare hose (no cloth braid on its surface) that would work, but it came from the end of a reel of custom-made oil tank supply hose and there was no more available without a custom-made run of it (3000 feet minimum then).

So, I'm still searching for the oil-hose solution. I hate the thought of a bare oil hose between the oil tank and the engine, it just won't look right.
That may be the only next solution that I might find, if I can get the hose someplace.

[HondaMan]

Ooo...Oooo...
I just found a vendor who will sell some Aeroquip 601 hose in less than 1000 foot lengths!
I think I'll get some and see if it works. It's only $26.50 per foot, plus shipping and tax....

[seanbarney41]

The company I work for has this neat tubing weaver thing that is used to weave cloth covering over electric harnesses.  I want to see if it can do hoses too.  It would not look the same as the oem oil lines but it would look very cool and there are many colors of thread that can be used to make different patterns.   Unfortuneately, knowing my company, no experimentation will be done for me unless vast sums of money are involved, most likely...

[slikwilli420]

I have a local place that assembles hoses for many industries. They have all the right tools and knowledge to do the job right. I run my lines differently than on a stock bike but I've never encountered anything Hondaman is talking about. -10an hose fits perfectly over the ends that go to the engine.

[Ellz10]

Ooo...Oooo...
I just found a vendor who will sell some Aeroquip 601 hose in less than 1000 foot lengths!
I think I'll get some and see if it works. It's only $26.50 per foot, plus shipping and tax....

I would quite interested to see if this works!! Please keep me posted!

The company I work for has this neat tubing weaver thing that is used to weave cloth covering over electric harnesses.  I want to see if it can do hoses too.  It would not look the same as the oem oil lines but it would look very cool and there are many colors of thread that can be used to make different patterns.   Unfortuneately, knowing my company, no experimentation will be done for me unless vast sums of money are involved, most likely...

Unfortunately that seems to be the norm these days. A pity.

[scottly]

Wasn't sure which part of the forum this would fall under so I just opted for here.

I'm curious if anyone has bought and used these or know someone who has and if they're quality made.

They look good and all, but I want to know if they'll last and not wear and break down.

Website is Carpys Cafe Racers.

Those are poser "braided stainless steel" hoses; they are primarily for looks. Are your stock hoses bad? You can cut the crimps off the stock fittings and remove/replace the hose with oil rated hose and clamps from the car parts store for a fraction of the cost for the bling. Once again, there is no pressure in the oil tank hoses.

[Ellz10]

Wasn't sure which part of the forum this would fall under so I just opted for here.

I'm curious if anyone has bought and used these or know someone who has and if they're quality made.

They look good and all, but I want to know if they'll last and not wear and break down.

Website is Carpys Cafe Racers.

Those are poser "braided stainless steel" hoses; they are primarily for looks. Are your stock hoses bad? You can cut the crimps off the stock fittings and remove/replace the hose with oil rated hose and clamps from the car parts store for a fraction of the cost for the bling. Once again, there is no pressure in the oil tank hoses.

What size are the hoses?

[Stev-o]

Member "Mo" was having SS braided hoses made for us a couple years back, I am running them on two of my bikes with no issues.
Unfortunately, he is no longer doing it, would be good if Hondaman could start.

[HondaMan]

I found that the new Eaton Aeroquip AE701-10 hose shows dimensions very close to the ones on these old metric hoses, and it has a braided cover of some kind on it. These are not intended for pressure service, and are oil-rated to over 210 degrees. The 'troubles' I have been encountering with the [many expensive] hose samples I have is their steel braids and liners, which when bent to the radii we need, over time will kink the inner hose liner. They are hydraulic hoses, meant for pressure (one is a fuel hose, but no braid, and not very pretty): this new Aeroquip listing has not been available at citizen's-level aerospace retailers before (that I could find). I'm getting 4 feet of it from Aircraft Spruce (for $140!) to try it out. Will keep y'all posted: my intent in buying all those tools was to either rebuild [your] old hoses or try to find a few sets of them so I could maybe set up an exchange 'service' where I can trade an old set for new set, that sort of thing. I don't plan on buying up 50 old sets and have them lying around, I already have MAJOR space problems with multiple engines!

The post-1975 bikes F0/1/2/3 and K7/8 have a different fitting on one end from the K0-K6 versions. This corresponds to the frame change near the right footpeg. The inner hose that makes an "S" bend is the trouble hose re: kinking, while the outboard one is usually the leaker, most often at the tank connector. This makes the braid always wet with oil and drips on the floor at the footpeg.

[Ellz10]

I found that the new Eaton Aeroquip AE701-10 hose shows dimensions very close to the ones on these old metric hoses, and it has a braided cover of some kind on it. These are not intended for pressure service, and are oil-rated to over 210 degrees. The 'troubles' I have been encountering with the [many expensive] hose samples I have is their steel braids and liners, which when bent to the radii we need, over time will kink the inner hose liner. They are hydraulic hoses, meant for pressure (one is a fuel hose, but no braid, and not very pretty): this new Aeroquip listing has not been available at citizen's-level aerospace retailers before (that I could find). I'm getting 4 feet of it from Aircraft Spruce (for $140!) to try it out. Will keep y'all posted: my intent in buying all those tools was to either rebuild [your] old hoses or try to find a few sets of them so I could maybe set up an exchange 'service' where I can trade an old set for new set, that sort of thing. I don't plan on buying up 50 old sets and have them lying around, I already have MAJOR space problems with multiple engines!

The post-1975 bikes F0/1/2/3 and K7/8 have a different fitting on one end from the K0-K6 versions. This corresponds to the frame change near the right footpeg. The inner hose that makes an "S" bend is the trouble hose re: kinking, while the outboard one is usually the leaker, most often at the tank connector. This makes the braid always wet with oil and drips on the floor at the footpeg.

So the issue is kinking over time. How come the stock hoses haven't encountered this kinking? Whats the difference between the two?

I would very much like to be kept in the loop about this! I would be interested in getting them from you!

I can only imagine the amount of engines and every other part known to the motorcycle world you have to your name. Akin to a treasure trove, I'm sure!

[HondaMan]

What size are the hoses?

This is part of the 'problem', as their size doesn't correspond to normal ANSI hose standards. They didn't need to, and 'standardized' materials like that always cost more because of their certificaton support. They probably just picked a hose size and composition that worked for the situation and had a Japanese hose maker supply them. This is typical of the era's technical expertise then.

Member "Mo" was having SS braided hoses made for us a couple years back, I am running them on two of my bikes with no issues.

Yep, Mo did a good job of slightly re-engineering the setup: he shortened the hoses a bit so they would not kink with the heat-expansion growth. The drawback to this was occasionally seen as the hoses being slightly too short when cold, and hard to install. IIRC, they only fit on the K0-K6 bikes? I seem to remember someone having to re-loosen his engine mount bolts to slide the engine all the way back a bit (like 1mm) to make them fit up just right(?) - not a bad trade-off at all! These are those 'little things' that make some of Honda's engineering solutions pure genius, where everything was a 'delta part' that would fit, even if modded for later bikes. My personal favorite of this sort of work is the shifter drum of the K4-later CB750: in the late K3 it was changed to improve the Neutral bump in the "L" groove, and suddenly the bikes had an easier-to-find Neutral when hot, something all constant-mesh boxes suffered not having in those days. It became the prototype of nearly all similar Honda gearboxes since: I put a K6 drum in my K1/2 engine in 2013 during its first full rebuild and really like it better in city traffic. It does shift 1-2 ever-so-slightly slower than before, but hey, I don't roadrace anymore!

[scottly]

Wasn't sure which part of the forum this would fall under so I just opted for here.

I'm curious if anyone has bought and used these or know someone who has and if they're quality made.

They look good and all, but I want to know if they'll last and not wear and break down.

Website is Carpys Cafe Racers.

Those are poser "braided stainless steel" hoses; they are primarily for looks. Are your stock hoses bad? You can cut the crimps off the stock fittings and remove/replace the hose with oil rated hose and clamps from the car parts store for a fraction of the cost for the bling. Once again, there is no pressure in the oil tank hoses.

What size are the hoses?

The hose I used was 15/32" ID, which I now understand is technically a "vacuum" or "smog" hose, commonly used to connect PCV valves and brake boosters. It resists oil and collapsing under vacuum, but is not intended for high pressure applications. I have had this hose on my bike for 20 years now with no problems. I installed it because the original hose was leaking, and I'm more into function than form.
Mark, who is this "Mo"??

[Ellz10]

What size are the hoses?

This is part of the 'problem', as their size doesn't correspond to normal ANSI hose standards. They didn't need to, and 'standardized' materials like that always cost more because of their certificaton support. They probably just picked a hose size and composition that worked for the situation and had a Japanese hose maker supply them. This is typical of the era's technical expertise then.

Member "Mo" was having SS braided hoses made for us a couple years back, I am running them on two of my bikes with no issues.

Yep, Mo did a good job of slightly re-engineering the setup: he shortened the hoses a bit so they would not kink with the heat-expansion growth. The drawback to this was occasionally seen as the hoses being slightly too short when cold, and hard to install. IIRC, they only fit on the K0-K6 bikes? I seem to remember someone having to re-loosen his engine mount bolts to slide the engine all the way back a bit (like 1mm) to make them fit up just right(?) - not a bad trade-off at all! These are those 'little things' that make some of Honda's engineering solutions pure genius, where everything was a 'delta part' that would fit, even if modded for later bikes. My personal favorite of this sort of work is the shifter drum of the K4-later CB750: in the late K3 it was changed to improve the Neutral bump in the "L" groove, and suddenly the bikes had an easier-to-find Neutral when hot, something all constant-mesh boxes suffered not having in those days. It became the prototype of nearly all similar Honda gearboxes since: I put a K6 drum in my K1/2 engine in 2013 during its first full rebuild and really like it better in city traffic. It does shift 1-2 ever-so-slightly slower than before, but hey, I don't roadrace anymore!

I find it absolutely astonishing that by loosening the bolts and moving it back just a freaking millimeter, that the hose was able to correct. Blows my mind haha!

[HondaMan]

The hose I used was 15/32" ID, which I now understand is technically a "vacuum" or "smog" hose, commonly used to connect PCV valves and brake boosters. It resists oil and collapsing under vacuum, but is not intended for high pressure applications. I have had this hose on my bike for 20 years now with no problems. I installed it because the original hose was leaking, and I'm more into function than form.
Mark, who is this "Mo"??

That's good info, Scottly: I'll keep it in mind. It reminded me about something else I've seen (whilst browsing in car junkyards for parts for my cars): the PVC hoses in the [older] Mercedes engines had woven-fabric over them, too. That might be a good lead in another direction.

"Mo" was a very creative member among us who made some pretty cool things. One day he just disappeared from here, IIRC?