Author Topic: Headlight disconnection stop bike from starting?  (Read 777 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline WhizWit81

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Headlight disconnection stop bike from starting?
« on: March 25, 2022, 07:19:02 AM »
This could fall under the dumb question of the day but I have my headlight disconnected. Will any of these connections stop the bike from getting power/starting?

I haven't run the bike in a long time and have had the battery just sitting on the shelf. I will test the battery later but I tried 2 of them and not getting any power at all, so figuring it might have something to do with all the connections in the headlight?

Thanks!

Offline Don R

  • My Sandcast is a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,966
  • Saver of unloved motorcycles.
Re: Headlight disconnection stop bike from starting?
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2022, 08:18:34 AM »
 Just the bulb it's self won't cause the problem. All of the wires in the bucket will.
No matter how many times you paint over a shadow, it's still there.
 CEO at the no kill motorcycle shop.
 You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Offline Bodi

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,697
Re: Headlight disconnection stop bike from starting?
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2022, 08:36:38 AM »
As i recall most if not all SOHC4 bikes have the switchpod connections under the seat and that's where anything ignition related is switched. I don't think any bucket connections can affect the ignition.
Lots of things can go wrong elsewhere though. How long has it been sitting? Long storage with high humidity corrodes the connectors and switch contacts.
But check any and all fuses, make sure the battery ground cable is getting super good contact to the frame and engine.
Check that your battery has voltage - under some load.
If still no luck, start tracing voltage trough the harness with a meter or test light.

Offline ekpent

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,512
  • To many bikes-but lookin' for more
Re: Headlight disconnection stop bike from starting?
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2022, 08:43:28 AM »
Disconnecting the headlight would not cause it to lose power. The only other thing related somewhat to that though is some of the 750 F bikes and maybe smaller machines is the headlight not working from a bad starter button but it would still start.

Offline Kenzo1979

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 544
Re: Headlight disconnection stop bike from starting?
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2022, 09:25:40 AM »
This could fall under the dumb question of the day but I have my headlight disconnected. Will any of these connections stop the bike from getting power/starting?

I haven't run the bike in a long time and have had the battery just sitting on the shelf. I will test the battery later but I tried 2 of them and not getting any power at all, so figuring it might have something to do with all the connections in the headlight?

Thanks!
Were both batteries just sitting on a shelf, or did you pull the other battery out of an operational bike? 

You should start with checking the voltage on both of those batteries. If either of them are under 12V, you’re probably not gonna get much of anything happening.  Start there. If you have 12 V at the battery (preferably higher, 12.5 or more), check your main fuse is good, then turn the key to the on position and check any black wire with your positive meter lead, and your negative meter lead to ground.  If you’re not getting voltage on a black wire then you have a problem before or in the key switch.  When you turn your key switch on, it connects the battery red wire to ignition power black wires.
--Kenzo
** 71 CB500, 74 CB550, 76 CB400F, 77 CJ360t **

Offline TwoTired

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,805
Re: Headlight disconnection stop bike from starting?
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2022, 09:37:30 AM »
1- no
2- unlikely but some models can interrupt power to starter solenoid via connections in headlight bucket, and some models pass kill switch ignition power through connections in headlight bucket.  Suggest you look at wire diagram to determine which wires you disconnected.

Lead acid batteries will self discharge at a ~10% rate per month just sitting on the shelf.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Don R

  • My Sandcast is a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,966
  • Saver of unloved motorcycles.
Re: Headlight disconnection stop bike from starting?
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2022, 10:32:33 AM »
 A 750 K has all of the handlebar control connections inside the headlight. I recall a 750F having connections in the lower wiring box near the horn, A 400F has its handlebar connections under the tank. I have not messed with 500 wiring.
No matter how many times you paint over a shadow, it's still there.
 CEO at the no kill motorcycle shop.
 You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Offline WhizWit81

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Re: Headlight disconnection stop bike from starting?
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2022, 01:44:38 PM »
God damn I love this site. You guys are all awesome...

So I tested both batteries and they were both around 5.5V. Shouldnt this be enough to at least get the triple gauges to come on? (neutral, oil etc)

Offline WhizWit81

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Re: Headlight disconnection stop bike from starting?
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2022, 01:45:35 PM »
72 CB750 btw.

Offline ekpent

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,512
  • To many bikes-but lookin' for more
Re: Headlight disconnection stop bike from starting?
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2022, 02:00:35 PM »
God damn I love this site. You guys are all awesome...

So I tested both batteries and they were both around 5.5V. Shouldnt this be enough to at least get the triple gauges to come on? (neutral, oil etc)
Dead dead dead---- RIP Anything under 10.7 is considered dead and even then won't do much. https://www.totalmotorcycle.com/maintenance/battery
« Last Edit: March 25, 2022, 02:05:49 PM by ekpent »

Offline TwoTired

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,805
Re: Headlight disconnection stop bike from starting?
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2022, 02:05:58 PM »
God damn I love this site. You guys are all awesome...

So I tested both batteries and they were both around 5.5V. Shouldnt this be enough to at least get the triple gauges to come on? (neutral, oil etc)

Tested with load or without?  With a open circuit reading this low, I would expect the battery to go zero pretty fast with any sort of load.

Might recover with a charge.  Only way to tell is give it a try.  Check there is fluid in the batt.  Add distilled water if not.  If it has sulfated due to lack of charge, it won't recover.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline WhizWit81

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Re: Headlight disconnection stop bike from starting?
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2022, 02:20:32 PM »
Just tested the battery off the bike. Doesn’t look like I can add water. They’re pretty solid when I shake. Should I hear/feel fluid?

Offline pjlogue

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 982
Re: Headlight disconnection stop bike from starting?
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2022, 03:41:22 PM »
If it's an AGM battery you will not hear sloshing.  If the battery is around 5V without any load you might be able to charge it if your charger is a dumb charger.  i.e. smart chargers will not charge batteries if the voltage of the battery is below ~10V.  You can fool them by connecting a good battery in parallel with the dead battery and put a charger on them.  This sometimes will allow the dead battery to start charging to the point where it will come back above 10V.

You should never let a lead acid battery sit for long periods of time without charging it.  Once the voltage goes below 12.4 V the plates inside begin to sulfate and it will quickly destroy a battery. 

-P.

Offline TwoTired

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,805
Re: Headlight disconnection stop bike from starting?
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2022, 12:14:24 AM »
Just tested the battery off the bike. Doesn’t look like I can add water. They’re pretty solid when I shake. Should I hear/feel fluid?
I didn’t know your batteries were agm .  Unlikely possible to add water to them.  If they don’t accept a charge, then replacement is the only option.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Don R

  • My Sandcast is a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,966
  • Saver of unloved motorcycles.
Re: Headlight disconnection stop bike from starting?
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2022, 12:17:58 AM »
 AGM is a gel in a mat between the plates. It won't slosh at all.
No matter how many times you paint over a shadow, it's still there.
 CEO at the no kill motorcycle shop.
 You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Offline TwoTired

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,805
Re: Headlight disconnection stop bike from starting?
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2022, 08:50:06 AM »
AGM is a gel in a mat between the plates. It won't slosh at all.
Um, not that I’ve experienced.  While there are gel cell batteries, AGM batteries are a different technical approach.

The goal was to make a battery that wouldn’t spill acid.  Making the electrolyte into a gel  was one solution.  But, starting batteries using gel are pretty rare, as the electrolyte electron mobility is pretty slow.

AGM uses a glass mat that is flooded with thin viscosity fluid just enough to saturate it.  That makes it cohesive enough to not allow spillage.  I did temporarily revive one of these that dried out by prying off the top and adding some water.  But, I added too much and it became sloshy.  I don’t recommend doing this routinely.  And have just gone back to flooded cells as they are easier to maintain, rather than replace more frequently.  I’ve gotten poor service life from AGMs that sit long periods without some low level intermittent float charge treatment.  But, then all my chargers were intended for flooded cells.  I’m not sure they are the best to use for AGMs.  So far, I’ve had 4 AGMs go useless sitting in bikes or on shelves unattended or on maintainers, where flooded cells could either be used or revived.  There are others that seems to like them more, though.

Cheers,

Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Alan F.

  • We remember the Night Rider, and we know who you are.
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,351
Re: Headlight disconnection stop bike from starting?
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2022, 08:50:39 AM »
If you've got a "dumb" low current charger, I'd put that on for a while and remove it to check battery voltage every few hours.

If you've got a "smart" charger, I'd switch to it after you reach 10.5V or so and let the smarter charger top off the charge.

Offline Don R

  • My Sandcast is a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,966
  • Saver of unloved motorcycles.
Re: Headlight disconnection stop bike from starting?
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2022, 12:04:00 PM »
 Either way, it won't slosh.
 I've got 4 or 5 agm's the oldest is 6 years now, still working and we have some long winters. I do use a maintainer a couple times during winter. I was disappointed when Advance switched to Die Hard but I heard they are made in the same plant as Yuasa so maybe there is hope.
No matter how many times you paint over a shadow, it's still there.
 CEO at the no kill motorcycle shop.
 You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Offline WhizWit81

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Re: Headlight disconnection stop bike from starting?
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2022, 08:34:09 AM »
I replaced the battery. Started right up! Next I need to move on to carbs/throttle cable as after it warmed up it revved up to 3K and stayed there..

Thanks again for the help fellas!

Offline ekpent

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,512
  • To many bikes-but lookin' for more
Re: Headlight disconnection stop bike from starting?
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2022, 08:37:21 AM »
There should be an idle adjustment screw/knob on the carbs to lower it unless the slides are set too high.