Author Topic: 1982 CB650SC, Project: "Black and Blue"  (Read 7973 times)

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Offline tourmax

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1982 CB650SC, Project: "Black and Blue"
« on: April 18, 2022, 01:18:00 PM »
I used to be a forum member, but it was back in the mid to late 90's. Like most forums, it seems SOHC4 has gone through a couple moves/changes since then. My log in information is probably long been deleted so I opened a new account. Truthfully, I can't really remember my log in name nor know/have the email I used to register back then.

I haven't had a SOHC Honda for about 15-20 years as my SOHC had gone "adrift" a loong time ago. I got a text from my ex-wife the other day (who doesn't love getting a text from their ex ::) ) that simply stated "come get your old bike or I'm going to have it hauled away for scrap".

Pardon? My old CB650SC is still around? I had assumed she had either gotten rid of it or burned it in the back yard (as was her tendency at the time with my stuff). Well, I figured no sense letting it go to scrap, so I arranged to pick it up one day when she was at work. I hooked up the trailer and headed out.

Well, when I got there, the bike was is sad shape. What she had done was push it out behind the shed and left it there for a good 15-20 years. Everything except the wheel bearings was seized solid. Luckily, the brakes hadn't welded to the discs so I could at least roll it.

Got it home and snapped a couple pics:













Your eyes aren't fooling you, the date on that plate tag is 1998.

It started out as a stock 1982 cb650sc Nighthawk that I took on trade for some work somewhere around 1991. It went through a couple rounds of modifications, with what you see here as its last iteration.

The front end and rear swingarm/wheel are from a 1985 RD500. I had a bud who used to track an RD500 back in the late 80's and one day he lunched the 2 stroke v4, hard. Bad premix, seized a big end and chucked a rod through the crankcase. Too rare/expensive to fix so it sat in his yard and eventually went for parts. I grabbed what he had left for cheap and grafted it on the CB.

The engine is mostly stock (put new rings in it long ago, stock 82 cam) with a MAC 4 into 1, a Dynojet kit and K&N pods.

Contrary to popular wisdom, the CV carbs run (ran?) pretty good with the pods. But I did also do the jetting work for them and understand what a cv carb needs to work. It could be temperamental at times, but when it was on it's game, it was crazy fast (for an old 650 sohc/4 that is).

The rear shock is from the RD500 also, but mounted cantilever as you can see. The RD also donated its tail light to the project.

I pulled the plugs and the alternator cover. Tried turning the crank and surprisingly, it actually turned. I expected at least one cylinder to have the rings rusted to it, but it seems to have avoided that issue at least.

The carbs were seized, wouldn't even open the butterflies. Choke was the same. Clutch lever was seized, as was the brake master.

The whole bike is covered in 20 years of environmental dirt, compounded by big blobs of pine tree sap and white latex paint drips all over it (they painted the shed at one point and obviously didn't give a rat's butt about the bike).

Got it up on the lift and pulled the bodywork, then pulled the carbs. Surprisingly, when I went through my drawer of "unknown" keys, the set for the nighthawk materialized. What's the chances of that after all this time?

The tank is a mess inside. It was in rough shape back when I was still riding it and time/neglect hadn't made it any better. It's still water tight, but I had used Kream on it back then and while it was still in the tank, rust had gotten a foothold behind it. I was able to pull nearly the whole Kream liner out like a plastic bag. Tank is a rusty mess inside. It's outside right now with a fan on the filler hole, as the old gas stinks to high heaven. Actually, it's pretty much pure varnish so calling it "gas" doesn't really describe how nasty it is right now. This is a tank that I’ll likely try the electrolysis rust removal method on and then bit it with one of the modern tank sealer products.

The carbs were in no better shape. I didn't even attempt to evaluate them. I just tore them down to their bits, dropped them in the Ultrasonic and let it run. A couple days later they are pretty respectable and I'm starting to put them back together.

The paint blobs and tree sap cleaned off with some products (and elbow grease) and the paint is still in great shape, even after the decade or two of neglect. At least thats something positive. It was a pretty pricey paint job when I had it done and it seems it was money well spent.

The seat, once a nice custom piece, is now scrap. Being exposed to the elements has cracked it in a several places a d the marine grade vinyl is now hard as a rock. I'll recover it myself and likely stitch up something like this:



(i also do automotive upholstery, so a bike seat is a simple project)

The fairing is off and ex500, but I think I'll drop it and install a couple round lights. I'll just toss on an inexpensive aftermarket set of turn signals. The gauges are ratched as I was going for the "racer-boy look" of the mid 90's. So I found a used 1982 C650SC set for 50 bucks on ebay and scooped them up.

On the lift in the middle of teardown:





Even the frame has rust on it. Not horrible, but enough to warrant a full tear down and respray. There's also odd things missing off it, like nuts and bolts in odd places. Even one engine mount plate and hardware is missing, as well as the drive chain. Nothing I can't fix, it's just annoying that it would be pushed outside to rot and then be robbed of bits and pieces.

So that's where it sits today. I'm still not sure what to do with it. I've got my 89 FJ1200 torn down to the frame for a repaint, so i don't really need another project. I've also got my 83 Yamaha Venture that I swapped a Vmax engine into sitting in the shed, and an 85 VF750F project hiding in the back of the shop. So I certainly don't need another project, let alone a 4th motorcycle.

I may just get it looking half decent and running and then sell it on to someone who wants a project bike. There's lots of things I'd do differently now than I did then, but that's just a factor of finances and 20 years bike building experiences. I'm not really looking to put that much work (or money) into it now.

But.....I'm one of those guys who always falls into "the trap" all gearheads get sucked into: the more I work on it, the harder it gets to think about selling it......

More to follow.....

Edit: think I might keep it now (wife doesn't know yet and I'm not telling her!) so it needs a project name I guess. Seems like project "Black and Blue" fits the bill!
« Last Edit: April 20, 2022, 05:58:31 AM by tourmax »
1989 FJ1200, 1983 Yamaha Venture (Vmax conversion), 1985 VF 750F Interceptor, 1982 CB650SC, 1988 Corvette convertible (Z52), 1983 Mustang GT, 2009 Mini Cooper Clubman.Couple more lying around but this is long enough already!

Offline fizzlebottom

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Re: 1982 CB650SC, former member from a loong time ago.
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2022, 01:50:59 PM »
This thing is absolutely wild. I love how different of a direction this took than the all-too-common CAFE EVERYTHING look.

Sounds like you've got a hell of a lot of work ahead of you. I'm really looking forward to watching the transformation. Keep us updated!
1982 CB650SC Nighthawk

Offline tourmax

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Re: 1982 CB650SC, former member from a loong time ago.
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2022, 11:45:36 AM »
Trying to work out the headlight situation. I want to spend as little as possible on this bike, so that means its using leftover parts I have lying around as much as possible. Luckily, there's no shortage of various left over bits from other bike builds lying around.

I feel the bike needs twin headlights, so a quick dig in the parts bins turns up a set of cbx750 lights:





Not too shabby! They’re meant to be behind a fairing and I had used them on a previous vf750f “endurance” build.

Because they are meant to be behind a fairing, I’ll need to build a housing for them. Not a big issue for me and it would also give me a place to hide the wiring connectors for the main harness.

Next came out some round kc daylighter style lights:





Not bad, but I think I’m leaning more towards the cbx lights…
« Last Edit: April 19, 2022, 01:16:16 PM by tourmax »
1989 FJ1200, 1983 Yamaha Venture (Vmax conversion), 1985 VF 750F Interceptor, 1982 CB650SC, 1988 Corvette convertible (Z52), 1983 Mustang GT, 2009 Mini Cooper Clubman.Couple more lying around but this is long enough already!

Offline fizzlebottom

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Re: 1982 CB650SC, former member from a loong time ago.
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2022, 01:51:34 PM »
Be aware of the charging issues with this bike. I suppose if you go with dual headlights, maybe consider LEDs all around to minimize the electrical needs.

Damn you've got an interesting project idea.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2022, 02:22:09 PM by fizzlebottom »
1982 CB650SC Nighthawk

Offline Stev-o

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Re: 1982 CB650SC, former member from a loong time ago.
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2022, 02:06:43 PM »
Welcome back, that is quite a story.  Looks like a cool project.

I see all the pics.
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline tourmax

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Re: 1982 CB650SC, former member from a loong time ago.
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2022, 02:21:00 PM »
Several images in your first post and none of the 2nd post's images are showing up. I want to see those dual headlights!

I can see them all and apparently stev-o can too...
1989 FJ1200, 1983 Yamaha Venture (Vmax conversion), 1985 VF 750F Interceptor, 1982 CB650SC, 1988 Corvette convertible (Z52), 1983 Mustang GT, 2009 Mini Cooper Clubman.Couple more lying around but this is long enough already!

Offline MauiK3

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Re: 1982 CB650SC, former member from a loong time ago.
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2022, 02:39:44 PM »
Nice project, can’t see the last set of photos
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Offline tourmax

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Re: 1982 CB650SC, former member from a loong time ago.
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2022, 02:52:07 PM »
Been staring at that 16" front wheel and 18" rear from the RZV500. Odd sizes for rubber these days and it limits things like choice of brake disc size, etc.

Out to my tire rack in the detached shop and I pull out a complete r6 front wheel. Rotors, tire, etc:



It's also a lot lighter than the cast RZV wheels from 1985. It feels like it weighs about the same as a feather compared to the RZV wheels. No speedo drive, but that's a fairly easy fix with a quick hit of the tig and a little file work.

That's the front taken care of. Ebay turns up a complete rear wheel for an R6 as well:



A little cosmetically "distressed", but that's a relatively easy fix and it meant I got the whole thing for a little over 30 bucks. I fix these sort of things all the time. A little tig, a little file work and maybe a little heat/bending if it's not running true. The bead seat area is pretty clean, which is the important thing. No tire, but I've got a couple extra 160/170 radials out in the tire rack, just waiting for a rim.

Axles, spacers and brake arms are easy for me. A couple hours on the lathe with some 4130 or 4140 and we're good to go!

I might have to change the rear swingarm. There's not a lot on the web about it, but it seems the r6 5.5 rear is too wide for a stock RZV swingarm. Again, not a problem. I've got a couple FJ1200 arms and a couple CBR arms in the back shop, waiting for the chance at a new life.

Also dug out some Honda SP1/SP2 brake systems from the parts bins. Complete and ready to go from brake pad to master cylinder. A couple adapter plates and they will bolt right up to the forks and allow me to use the 298mm rotors from the R6 instead of the 265mm rotors from the RZV (smaller rotors because of limited space inside the 16" wheel). I've got some 320mm rotors from an SP2 also, but pretty sure they won't fit the R6 wheels....
« Last Edit: April 19, 2022, 06:15:57 PM by tourmax »
1989 FJ1200, 1983 Yamaha Venture (Vmax conversion), 1985 VF 750F Interceptor, 1982 CB650SC, 1988 Corvette convertible (Z52), 1983 Mustang GT, 2009 Mini Cooper Clubman.Couple more lying around but this is long enough already!

Offline Stev-o

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Re: 1982 CB650SC, former member from a loong time ago.
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2022, 03:03:28 PM »
...can’t see the last set of photos

I see 'em and also a Corvette Convertible, is it a C4?  [I have a C3]
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline tourmax

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Re: 1982 CB650SC, former member from a loong time ago.
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2022, 04:08:50 PM »
...can’t see the last set of photos

I see 'em and also a Corvette Convertible, is it a C4?  [I have a C3]

Yep. 1988. Z52 package (like the z51 but slightly softer springs).
1989 FJ1200, 1983 Yamaha Venture (Vmax conversion), 1985 VF 750F Interceptor, 1982 CB650SC, 1988 Corvette convertible (Z52), 1983 Mustang GT, 2009 Mini Cooper Clubman.Couple more lying around but this is long enough already!

Offline tourmax

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Re: 1982 CB650SC, former member from a loong time ago.
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2022, 04:13:01 PM »
Be aware of the charging issues with this bike. I suppose if you go with dual headlights, maybe consider LEDs all around to minimize the electrical needs.

Damn you've got an interesting project idea.

The square lights have a smaller bulb in each for DRL's. Your can see them here as #12:



Probably drop a bright LED of appropriate physical size to give me nice bright DRL's without having to run the two 35W Hi/Lo halogens all the time.

Also planning to step up to a modern mosfet regulator since I'll likely be going with a smaller Lipo starting battery.

I've kinda got it in my mind to make this thing as light as i can without ruining it's current looks or function.....
« Last Edit: April 19, 2022, 06:05:47 PM by tourmax »
1989 FJ1200, 1983 Yamaha Venture (Vmax conversion), 1985 VF 750F Interceptor, 1982 CB650SC, 1988 Corvette convertible (Z52), 1983 Mustang GT, 2009 Mini Cooper Clubman.Couple more lying around but this is long enough already!

Offline tourmax

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Re: 1982 CB650SC, Project: "Black and Blue"
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2022, 11:28:38 AM »
Test fit of the r6 front wheel and nissin opposed calipers:

 1-F135-CCF-4652-403-D-AA39-D752-BCF2-FB9-E" border="0

Looks bchin!

Lots to still sort out, but I like it so far…
« Last Edit: April 20, 2022, 01:20:10 PM by tourmax »
1989 FJ1200, 1983 Yamaha Venture (Vmax conversion), 1985 VF 750F Interceptor, 1982 CB650SC, 1988 Corvette convertible (Z52), 1983 Mustang GT, 2009 Mini Cooper Clubman.Couple more lying around but this is long enough already!

Offline tourmax

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Re: 1982 CB650SC, Project: "Black and Blue"
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2022, 01:21:09 PM »
Ugh. Making axle spacers and such:

2-CF5-CAEF-29-AF-4137-A2-C0-6-D7-F92-A4-ECDC" border="0

Gotta be done, but its just hours of boring drudgery to make bushings and spacers….
« Last Edit: April 20, 2022, 05:04:10 PM by tourmax »
1989 FJ1200, 1983 Yamaha Venture (Vmax conversion), 1985 VF 750F Interceptor, 1982 CB650SC, 1988 Corvette convertible (Z52), 1983 Mustang GT, 2009 Mini Cooper Clubman.Couple more lying around but this is long enough already!

Offline fizzlebottom

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Re: 1982 CB650SC, Project: "Black and Blue"
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2022, 01:39:29 PM »
This is utterly insane and I love it.
1982 CB650SC Nighthawk

Offline tourmax

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Re: 1982 CB650SC, Project: "Black and Blue"
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2022, 06:55:35 AM »
Well, guess my spare FH020 is going to remain in the Venture's saddlebags. The 82 650 seems to use an excited field coil, which the FH020 can't control.  Oh well, the bike was charging it's battery 20 years ago, I'll just have to cross my fingers it still does.

Decided to toss on an oil cooler just for the heck of it:


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That's from a DOHC 650, which will sandwich right under the OEM filter case. It's an easy upgrade and might come in handy should I decide to go out to 718cc in the future.....;)

Still grinding away at making wheel spacers and such. I hate grunt work like this. Has to be done, but it's just.....sooooooooooo........boooooooorrrrrrrriiiiiinnnnnngggggg......... ::)
« Last Edit: April 21, 2022, 10:28:30 AM by tourmax »
1989 FJ1200, 1983 Yamaha Venture (Vmax conversion), 1985 VF 750F Interceptor, 1982 CB650SC, 1988 Corvette convertible (Z52), 1983 Mustang GT, 2009 Mini Cooper Clubman.Couple more lying around but this is long enough already!

Offline MauiK3

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Re: 1982 CB650SC, Project: "Black and Blue"
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2022, 08:02:26 AM »
I see the photos now
1973 CB 750 K3
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Offline tourmax

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Re: 1982 CB650SC, Project: "Black and Blue"
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2022, 10:19:57 AM »
decided I didn't like the MAC megaphone style muffler. Sounds OK, looks "period" for the bike, but I wanted something to update the looks a bit. 5 bucks on ebay gets me a used GSXR1000 muffler:



On the original bike:



Should tidy up the looks nicely. It;s modern, but it also has a bit of the look of the original meagaphone style (has a bit of a widening taper front to rear).

It's a little distressed, but I can clean that up easily and the scratching just meant a cheaper buy in.

We'll see how it sounds once the bike is running again.

Arguably, it's half of a system for a 1000, but half of a system that is sized for 185 hp should easily handle my little lo-po cb650.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2022, 10:27:19 AM by tourmax »
1989 FJ1200, 1983 Yamaha Venture (Vmax conversion), 1985 VF 750F Interceptor, 1982 CB650SC, 1988 Corvette convertible (Z52), 1983 Mustang GT, 2009 Mini Cooper Clubman.Couple more lying around but this is long enough already!

Offline fizzlebottom

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Re: 1982 CB650SC, Project: "Black and Blue"
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2022, 10:27:45 AM »
Could also look into getting something from Cone Eng for a more modern muffler construction. That GSXR muffler isn't my cup of tea, but if you dig it then that's what matters.
1982 CB650SC Nighthawk

Offline tourmax

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Re: 1982 CB650SC, Project: "Black and Blue"
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2022, 10:31:40 AM »
Could also look into getting something from Cone Eng for a more modern muffler construction. That GSXR muffler isn't my cup of tea, but if you dig it then that's what matters.

I used to build expansion chambers for RD/RZ 350/500's and even a couple TZ's. I'd just build a new megaphone if that's how I wanted to go.

I'm looking to build the bike so if the uninitiated walks by, they think it's a somewhat modern bike, not 40 years old...
1989 FJ1200, 1983 Yamaha Venture (Vmax conversion), 1985 VF 750F Interceptor, 1982 CB650SC, 1988 Corvette convertible (Z52), 1983 Mustang GT, 2009 Mini Cooper Clubman.Couple more lying around but this is long enough already!

Offline Scott S

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Re: 1982 CB650SC, Project: "Black and Blue"
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2022, 05:51:07 PM »
 Personally,  I love the look of the bike in the old pics.
 I'm old and my back hurts, so maybe a handle bar conversion, but I wouldn't change much.
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Offline fizzlebottom

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Re: 1982 CB650SC, Project: "Black and Blue"
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2022, 07:14:26 PM »
Could also look into getting something from Cone Eng for a more modern muffler construction. That GSXR muffler isn't my cup of tea, but if you dig it then that's what matters.

I used to build expansion chambers for RD/RZ 350/500's and even a couple TZ's. I'd just build a new megaphone if that's how I wanted to go.

I'm looking to build the bike so if the uninitiated walks by, they think it's a somewhat modern bike, not 40 years old...

Got it. I'm seriously in love with this project, however it turns out. You're doing something so incredibly different. Keep it coming.
1982 CB650SC Nighthawk

Offline tourmax

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Re: 1982 CB650SC, Project: "Black and Blue"
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2022, 06:14:02 AM »
Kept going back and forth on how to drive the speedo. Decided to use a vfr400 speedo drive:



Why you may ask?

well, the vfr takes its speedo drive off the front drive sprocket instead of the front wheel. So rather that having to try and modify a front wheel/drive to work, all I need to do is make a boss on the chain cover and bolt it up.

easy peasy.

:)
1989 FJ1200, 1983 Yamaha Venture (Vmax conversion), 1985 VF 750F Interceptor, 1982 CB650SC, 1988 Corvette convertible (Z52), 1983 Mustang GT, 2009 Mini Cooper Clubman.Couple more lying around but this is long enough already!

Offline tourmax

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Re: 1982 CB650SC, Project: "Black and Blue"
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2022, 04:37:24 PM »
So, todays work requires a little explaining.

The RD500 fork use the typical small diameter axle from the period. Its hollow and light, but still a small diameter compared to modern kit.

The R6 wheel is set up for the typical modern large diameter axles.

So, I’d be looking at trying to drill out the forks for a larger axle or trying to find bearings and seals that fit the od of the r6 wheel and the od of the rd500 small diameter axle.

Well, the fork doesn’t look to have enough “meat” for the larger axle and finding bearings and seals to fit sounds like a major pitb.

So I decided to machine out a few new spacers and sleeves to allow me to use stock r6 bearings and seals with the RD axle.

First was to machine a bushing (mild steel) that has an id for the axle and an od that is a few thou larger than the axle hole in the r6 bearing. Once done, chucked the bushes in the freezer for an hour and then they dropped right into the r6 bearing. Dabed it with locktight red for good measure. Once the bush warmed back up to room temperature, it locked itself in solid to the r6 bearing (as it was a few thou larger than the r6 bearing hole).

Et voila! An R6 wheel bearing with an RD500 axle diameter.

But thats only the start. Now the hub spacer wasn’t going to fit the bearing diameters properly. So some more work on the lathe and I had a hub spacers the right diameter and width to properly compress the wheel bearings.

Lastly, I needed wheel spacers to fit the fork width, the axle size the seal ID’s and to properly position and load the bearings. After a bit of work, got everything machined out and properly installed:

94-FB88-E0-3-ACF-48-DE-A2-F5-740134-B521-C3" border="0

78-D25-F70-B955-4274-A451-7-C7199-F28848" border="0

Then, started work on the adapter plate for the brake calipers:

410395-C9-E26-A-4053-B890-2-CAD81-A5-B82-B" border="0

First try came up a little short, but its a good start for the next plate. The next one should be pretty much good to go.

An overall view:

059-F745-C-65-D6-46-C2-B99-B-1-F01435-AD800" border="0
1989 FJ1200, 1983 Yamaha Venture (Vmax conversion), 1985 VF 750F Interceptor, 1982 CB650SC, 1988 Corvette convertible (Z52), 1983 Mustang GT, 2009 Mini Cooper Clubman.Couple more lying around but this is long enough already!

Offline Stev-o

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Re: 1982 CB650SC, Project: "Black and Blue"
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2022, 04:41:32 PM »
Nice planning and machine work [I kinda miss my machining days]

You near Nova Scotia?
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline tourmax

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Re: 1982 CB650SC, Project: "Black and Blue"
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2022, 06:19:44 PM »
…You near Nova Scotia?

You could say that…;)
1989 FJ1200, 1983 Yamaha Venture (Vmax conversion), 1985 VF 750F Interceptor, 1982 CB650SC, 1988 Corvette convertible (Z52), 1983 Mustang GT, 2009 Mini Cooper Clubman.Couple more lying around but this is long enough already!