Topic: CR carbs for Honda cb350f (Anybody can help?)

[yd72]

Hi to all who post in this forum. I am a newbie in this forum. I have been  reading this forum for a long time but haven't post before. This will be my first....

Can anybody help me and assist me on some cr carbs questions.

1) Where can I get the cheapest cr carbs for a 350f? What model and system, which is best for cb350f?
2) Can anybody help me,on how to install this carbs properly with instructions and maybe photographs.
3) Any advantage and disadvantage of cr carbs for daily use?
4) Any difficulties in tuning the carbs, can it be done by yourself? Where can I buy the instruction manual?
5) Finally, any modification to the bike? And any final adjustment to any parts to run the cr carbs?

Appreciated anybody contributing to the answers. God bless everybody. Thanks.

Regards
Chris

[chung]

Hey Brother Chris, welcome.

Not sure what your goals are for the bike. That does matter here. You will get answers directing you in a gazzillion directions.

The 350/4 is cool and makes a great little road bike. Breaks my heart to see the gas tank off one on another bike. That means that there is one less left to ride.

I'm not sure if anyone ever made CR carb kits for it? maybe use some 400F parts. I believe that they share a lot of parts as far as the engine goes. They did race the 400F and Yoshi' had carbs, pipes and cams.

Also unsure if you would gain much for the $$$ and effort? If you have the proper carbs and can salvage them, that should be PLAN #A unless you a buttload of other engine mods in mind. hummmmmm. could be a fun bike

If you can tune 1 carb then you can tune 4. If you can tune 4 then you can tune a rack of CRs. Takes paintents and practice.

If it's a real "beater" then weight-loss might give you more performance gains than a high dollar carb swap. By the term "beater" I mean one that isn't worth trying to restore because all the expensive eye-candy is all rusty or gone. Not an easy bike to restore, parts are scarce.

LIGHTWEIGHT OR ELIMINATE is the cheapest way to go. Not only a better power to weight ratio but better brakes and better turning...... all for free

Hopefully. you will get some more"educated" replies. Or should I say "More educated"

[Geeto67]

Are you building a monster motor or are you just trying to find a way around rebuilding your stock carbs? CR carbs can run around $1000 depending on how they are setup and for what bike they are setup. Even if a pro rebuilt your stockers you wouldn't spend anywhere near that. If you can find someone to set up a set of CR carbs for your bike (provided you can get them in a small enough size to work with your engine - check with sudco) then you will have a set of carbs that are actually worth more then your entire bike.

Personally I hate the 350F, too slow, too heavy and it should have had the 6speed that the 400f has,  and I don't adovcate sinking money into speed parts on one when there are better bikes out there that can be had for cheap (cb750s, cb550s, cb400fs come to mind) with more aftermarket parts available.

[heffay]

geeto... this one's for you   

[Geeto67]

geeto... this one's for you   

Gee...thanks.

I owned one and really didn't like it. wasn't for me. I know others have had better expirences with them (and I have to say a green 350four is a beautiful bike) I just found it lacking in ground clearance and hp. The 350 twin is a much better 350cc bike as well as the s-2 350cc kawasaki triple and suzuki T-350 if you have to have a 350cc bike.

[heffay]

you're welcome 

you are entitled to your own opinion and that's fine.  on the other hand, with me being only 145# wet it's not hard to get me up to speed    but, if i wanted to go fast i wouldn't be on my 350 anyway.  although, i have seen over 90 on the 350 and it seemed a lot faster on that than well over 100 seemed on the 7r.  i've still never really considered my 350f to be a slouch though. 

[chung]

I rode a stock ragged 350F with duct tape holding the switches together. So it had not been cared far.  That puppy reved past 10krpm like that's what it wanted to do most in life. Sweet little bike all the way to an indicated ton.

Almost couldn't get me off of it, I just kept running up the gearbox. After riding a HotRod 350K for a couple years that noise was awesome. It has it's merits.... One being the ability to make a big grin

Just has too many moving parts for it's size though. I'll stay with the Twin for now. And my RDs..... No intermal chains and even fewer moving parts than a Honda single

[ttr400]

The CR26 mm carbs for the CB400F will fit the CB3500F, you might have to move the petcock position, as I did with my 400.  For street use it would be advisable to use K&N filters. You can order the carbs from 400fourstore.com I think they are about $700.00.

If you do fit these carbs and to get the benift from them, I would advise a good cyl head and valve job and cam.

Kevin

[Geeto67]

even at $700 the carbs are still worth more than the bike   

[okie]

At least three of the CB350Fours have sold for over $3000 on eBay in the last month.

[riktaboy]

So when you had to move the petcock on your CB400F, what did that involve there, have any pics of what you did to accomondate the new carbs.  I remember seeing some before on the throttle side but not the petcock side..

[yd72]

Are you building a monster motor or are you just trying to find a way around rebuilding your stock carbs? CR carbs can run around $1000 depending on how they are setup and for what bike they are setup. Even if a pro rebuilt your stockers you wouldn't spend anywhere near that. If you can find someone to set up a set of CR carbs for your bike (provided you can get them in a small enough size to work with your engine - check with sudco) then you will have a set of carbs that are actually worth more then your entire bike.

Personally I hate the 350F, too slow, too heavy and it should have had the 6speed that the 400f has,  and I don't adovcate sinking money into speed parts on one when there are better bikes out there that can be had for cheap (cb750s, cb550s, cb400fs come to mind) with more aftermarket parts available.

Thanks for your comments.
In where Im staying, classic bike don't come cheap and it is also very rare. My non-runner bike cost me us$625 and rebuilding it cost me a bomb with mechanic's help that does not incl. other cost like laws and regulation on the bike.

Chris

[Geeto67]

At least three of the CB350Fours have sold for over $3000 on eBay in the last month.

Then there are at least three people in this world who overpaid by $2500 for bikes (and actually it was only two and one of them went for $2500)

I'm 6'5" and I have to say that a buddy's sears/gilera 106ss was actually more comfortable.

really I can't understand why these bikes would even pull that kind of money, even in as nice a shape as they were they were maybe $1500 bikes. They are not collectible, they are not sporty, they are not a particually thrilling ride. It boggles my mind.

Most of my friends have owned one and the majority of them were bought for under $300. I was happy to be rid of mine for that much money. even my fiancee thought it too wide and ungainly as compaired with her cj360T (another winner of a bike - let me tell you). Mine was bulletproof in that I had to beat the crap out of it to go anywhere but it never broke down. My friend Tim who had the identical green 350F I had hated his too and he was considerably smaller than me (he races vespas). His was dependable too but he used to say owning that bike made him feel like honda repossessed his nads.

yd72 - don't mind my rambling, in the US these bikes are common. In singapore I imagine it is a killer machine to have. There is a guy in south africa that had a lot of custom parts listed for the 400f, I forget his website but he might be a little closer to get parts from than the US. Can you import parts from the US? If so I can tell you a whole junkyard full of these bikes. I have to say, while classic bikes may be rare in singapore - you might have picked a bad project bike since new replacement spares for cb350Fs are kinda rare even here in the states. you have your work cut out for you.

[ttr400]

Riktaboy, I cut out the threaded male petcock mount and re-welded a new female mount 15mm futher forward. I also made new front tank mounts 15-20mm higher on the frame, them compensated at the rear mount with a solid piece of rubber bonded to the OE rubber tank mount. I'll try to put some pics up later.

Just about all of the aftermarket parts and OE parts from the CB400F can fit the 350F.

Does it really matter what you pay for a bike, if it's what you want then go for it. Spend as much money on your project as you want to after all it's your bike.

If I had the spare funds I would spend 2500-3000 $'s for a CB350F For a restoration build, but if I was building a cafe or a racer then I would start with a parts or non runner bike.
My CB400F racer has cost me more than the latest Ducati sport bike, but who cares, it's what I wanted to build and to the specs that I wanted with no compromise.
I am also doing a full nut and bolt resto on a Varnish blue CB400F, I expect the build cost to be in around $10.000. and if I ever sold it my asking price would be around the 10 grand mark.

I have just been commissioned to build a CR750 replica with all the bells and whistles, estimated cost $35000.00.  Why? because it's what the customer wants and can afford it.  will be a very rare machine when finished and yes he is going to race it in some classic events.

Oh,I am the guy in South Africa.

Kevin

[okie]

Oh, Geeto67, I get it now.  Yes, you're right.  Those 350F's are only worth $500.
Now, any of you guys who were tricked into buying one for more than $500, just e-mail me, and as long as it is still running, I'll try to help you correct your huge mistake.  I am such a nice guy that I might even give you $600 for that worthless piece of junk. 

[Geeto67]

Oh, Geeto67, I get it now.  Yes, you're right.  Those 350F's are only worth $500.
Now, any of you guys who were tricked into buying one for more than $500, just e-mail me, and as long as it is still running, I'll try to help you correct your huge mistake.  I am such a nice guy that I might even give you $600 for that worthless piece of junk. 

As opposed to not getting it before? I don't think I have been unclear. If I could make ripping on the 350F the national passtime I would (I have a lot of fun doing it). It isn't a bad bike, nor is it a particularly good bike - it is the poster child for UJM (ubiquitious japanese motorcycle).

But if you want to split hairs over what these bikes are worth, then here is the nada value for a 1973 model:

http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?LI=1-23-38-5697-0-0-0&l=1&w=23&p=38&f=5698&m=0017&d=1500003232&y=1973&ml=H&gc=AM&gtc=MC

 Excellent:     $1,675
 Very Good:   $1,150
 Good:        $675
 Fair:           $425
 Poor:          N/A

Excellent  — A close to perfect original or a very well restored motorcycle. A motorcycle that is stunning to look at and any flaws are minor and not readily apparent. Everything works as new. All equipment is original, new old stock (NOS) factory replacements, or minimal use of excellent quality reproductions. An excellent condition bike may seem to most individuals as a perfect motorcycle but to the trained expert will have minor flaws or inaccuracies.
 
Very Good — An extremely presentable original motorcycle showing minimal wear, or a well restored motorcycle. Starts, runs, and rides well. Needs no mechanical or cosmetic work. All areas have been detailed. Beautiful to look at but below excellent condition because of limited used or restoration flaws.

Lets assume both of those ebay bikes fall qualify as excellent (they don't but let us assume they do). Then one guy overpaid by $900 and the other by about $1525. I remember when these bikes were throw aways, you couldn't give one to your friend (this was in the late 80's when you could also buy cb750s including K0s and sandcasts for $100). It doesn't make sense that these bikes should be worth this kind of money, espically with the issue of spare parts. I don't recommend these bikes to anybody, espically as a first bike for that reason. Not an easy bike to work on either.

that being said they do have a nice look to them, not keen on that red but the dark green is what I owned and I thought was a striking color scheme. If I could have one with the 400F motor (6 speeds) I would feel better about the bike as a whole but that 5 speed 350 lump is a doorstop. Of course it osunds great at 10K - you have to rev it till it screams bloody murder to get anywhere with it.

[yd72]

Riktaboy, I cut out the threaded male petcock mount and re-welded a new female mount 15mm futher forward. I also made new front tank mounts 15-20mm higher on the frame, them compensated at the rear mount with a solid piece of rubber bonded to the OE rubber tank mount. I'll try to put some pics up later.

Just about all of the aftermarket parts and OE parts from the CB400F can fit the 350F.

Does it really matter what you pay for a bike, if it's what you want then go for it. Spend as much money on your project as you want to after all it's your bike.

If I had the spare funds I would spend 2500-3000 $'s for a CB350F For a restoration build, but if I was building a cafe or a racer then I would start with a parts or non runner bike.
My CB400F racer has cost me more than the latest Ducati sport bike, but who cares, it's what I wanted to build and to the specs that I wanted with no compromise.
I am also doing a full nut and bolt resto on a Varnish blue CB400F, I expect the build cost to be in around $10.000. and if I ever sold it my asking price would be around the 10 grand mark.

I have just been commissioned to build a CR750 replica with all the bells and whistles, estimated cost $35000.00.  Why? because it's what the customer wants and can afford it.  will be a very rare machine when finished and yes he is going to race it in some classic events.

Oh,I am the guy in South Africa.

Kevin

Kevin, you have same thinking as same me. Spend as much as you like on the bike you like.

Any idea how to mod my stock 350f petcock? Don't want to use any stock petcock?
How about the carbs, is being giving me headache since two years ago, it does not idle anymore. Everything my carbs has problem, I have to spend a few hundred dollars on it to be service by some mechanic, because I don't have the resources and knowledge to do it properly. Sigh.......
Any good if I change into CR carbs for stock carbs, any comments??

Chris

[riktaboy]

My plan is to change to CR carbs on my 400F for probably the same reasons as you.  Got my 400F for $100 with seized carbs from on all the varnish and the sitting of the bike.  I agree with Kevin also and have invested thousands now building it up and am now doing the big investment of carbs because i'm tired of having to pull them again and again because another little piece of varnish from somewhere flakes off and clogs them up.  SO i'm gonna throw some CR's on there and make er go good with some brand new carbs.
We'll see how it all goes together.

[ttr400]

I know what you mean about the stock carbs, on off on off it's a real pain, but I did eventually get my stock carbs right, I don't know maybe because they are so old? could be worn out?
Anyway to the CR's, of coarse the modern CR's have an idle and choke system so I see no reason why you can't use them on a stock motor , but use filters, I run mine open on the race bike. I know a guy west of Chicago that uses the CR's on a stock CB350F motor and he told me it goes very well all he did was go one size smaller on the pilot jet. I will see if I can find the dyno #'s for this motor. One advantage with the CR's is you can alter needle position and change mains with the carbs on the bike.
Here are a few pics of the CR's on my race 400, the tank mods might not be the same for the 350F.
First fit the carbs to see what has to be moved. I used a pingel petcock.

[paulages]

Oh, Geeto67, I get it now.  Yes, you're right.  Those 350F's are only worth $500.
Now, any of you guys who were tricked into buying one for more than $500, just e-mail me, and as long as it is still running, I'll try to help you correct your huge mistake.  I am such a nice guy that I might even give you $600 for that worthless piece of junk. 

As opposed to not getting it before? I don't think I have been unclear. If I could make ripping on the 350F the national passtime I would (I have a lot of fun doing it). It isn't a bad bike, nor is it a particularly good bike - it is the poster child for UJM (ubiquitious japanese motorcycle).

But if you want to split hairs over what these bikes are worth, then here is the nada value for a 1973 model:

http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?LI=1-23-38-5697-0-0-0&l=1&w=23&p=38&f=5698&m=0017&d=1500003232&y=1973&ml=H&gc=AM&gtc=MC

 Excellent:     $1,675
 Very Good:   $1,150
 Good:        $675
 Fair:           $425
 Poor:          N/A

Excellent  — A close to perfect original or a very well restored motorcycle. A motorcycle that is stunning to look at and any flaws are minor and not readily apparent. Everything works as new. All equipment is original, new old stock (NOS) factory replacements, or minimal use of excellent quality reproductions. An excellent condition bike may seem to most individuals as a perfect motorcycle but to the trained expert will have minor flaws or inaccuracies.
 
Very Good — An extremely presentable original motorcycle showing minimal wear, or a well restored motorcycle. Starts, runs, and rides well. Needs no mechanical or cosmetic work. All areas have been detailed. Beautiful to look at but below excellent condition because of limited used or restoration flaws.

Lets assume both of those ebay bikes fall qualify as excellent (they don't but let us assume they do). Then one guy overpaid by $900 and the other by about $1525. I remember when these bikes were throw aways, you couldn't give one to your friend (this was in the late 80's when you could also buy cb750s including K0s and sandcasts for $100). It doesn't make sense that these bikes should be worth this kind of money, espically with the issue of spare parts. I don't recommend these bikes to anybody, espically as a first bike for that reason. Not an easy bike to work on either.

that being said they do have a nice look to them, not keen on that red but the dark green is what I owned and I thought was a striking color scheme. If I could have one with the 400F motor (6 speeds) I would feel better about the bike as a whole but that 5 speed 350 lump is a doorstop. Of course it osunds great at 10K - you have to rev it till it screams bloody murder to get anywhere with it.

geet, you are forgetting the most important element in the inflation of the cost of a motorcycle, or any product for that matter: demand. if enough people (or one on ebay, for that matter) think that something is valuable, the prices drives up regardless of nada values. personally, i'd take a cb350 twin over a four any day (and definitely over a cb, cl, or cl 360T). i used to find them all day long for $100-150. now, old hondas are becoming hip here in portland, and they sell for $500-$1000 in the same condition.

[yd72]

So envy all those bike that has been mod and so nicely done. Kevin nice bike you have there. In my country we have less than five numbers of cb400f on the road, most of the vintage and classic bikes have been exported out due to the age so left with some that can be found. You will see us chasing after classic bike riden by some old man and asking them whether he wants to sell anot? So pityful.

So envy........
Can you post the South Africa website on cb400f parts?
Is it difficult to tune the CR carbs? Any things to look out for if I am restoring my cb350f stock carbs? If this dun work out, going to buy a Cr carbs.

Chris

[ttr400]

The link to my website is at the bottom of my posts, but here it is anyway. www.ttr400.com

The CR carbs are not difficult to tune, once balanced it's the same as most carbs, Main jets, slow jets, needle position, air screw.
Always make sure before tuning the carbs that the timing and valve clearances are all set correctly.

What I would do is to give your carbs a real good clean, remove all the jets,floats, jet needles etc. give them a good clean with carb cleaner and blast with air, especially the jet needles, these have lots of small holes that can be clogged up.
Make sure to start with the stock jets: Main #75, Slow#35, needle middle clip. set air screw +- 3/4-1 turn out. set float height to 21mm. This should get you in the ball park. also make sure there are no air leaks on the carb manifold rubbers. If in doubt as to the jets etc, replace with new ones, if buying the keyster kits, do not use the slow jets!! buy OEM Honda parts, as I have found the keyster slow jets snap off very easily.
Hope this helps a bit.

Kevin

[Marco83]

Chris,
nice to see you here. I got my carb working already.. i will reach singapore at friday, will call you for more info..
I also get some part at chicago. cool!!

marco

[riktaboy]

thanks again for all the info, Kevin

[wardmoto]

Marco83...I am so glad everything worked out, I hope the fender is what you wanted.  I bought my 350's (bone stock and my now cafe) from my wife's Grandfather.  He was a great person and would be amazed that parts of his bike now live in California, Cincinnati and now Singapore!!!  I will get you your tank/seat/pipe info as soon as I hear from the guy that made them.  You need anything, please contact me.  If you ever come to Pennsylvania, get out to Carlisle and I will take care of you!!!   Kevin...while I haven't performed things to your caliber, I have spent many hours on your website researching what I wanted to do with my own project...it is awesome to see you here; you have tons of info to offer....for what it is worth, thank you for the time you take to update yourt site and visit this outstanding forum....