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Author Topic: Heavy Duty rods for the cb650!!!  (Read 5491 times)

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Offline Soos

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Re: Heavy Duty rods for the cb650!!!
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2009, 08:32:13 AM »
Dunno....

On this website, look at page 154 to 156, it mentions shell bearings needed for the big end of the rods for the given diameters of the crankshaft diameter.
http://books.google.com/books?id=U331HAv2b4cC&pg=PA144&lpg=PA144&dq=GSX-R1000+connecting+rod+measurements&source=bl&ots=NZ4eoWg-0o&sig=h7Hw76ukndNIy-cwoJPdQvi1ius&hl=en&ei=_JbPSYW1NqHaswP8roGhAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA155,M1

From the pics, I am not too sure on whether they are interchangable(from honda rods to suz rods)


But I got my money to clear through paypal, and have a day or so before I (hopefully) win my GSX-R 1000 rods.

I will post pics when I get them.


Plastiguage...
Hrmm, I bet they have that on feebay as well......


ARGH.... I weighed the cb650 rod... wrote it down, and left it at work.. AGAIN!
Mabey this weekend i'll sneak into work, and get it.



l8r
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(61mm)652cc 1979 cb650

Offline Soos

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Re: Heavy Duty rods for the cb650!!!
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2009, 08:47:37 AM »
Oh... you mean $$ for the shell bearings sets....

13.80 each... not per set for the cb650 shell bearings.
Thats the cheapest I can find locally.

However the GSXR1000 shell bearings are only 7.62 each half, not per set...
So nearly 1/2 the price for the newer goes with the rods bearings for the GSXR.

I'm guessing availability is the main reason.



l8r
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-=≡ Soos ≡=-
Just think to yourself what would Alowishus Devander Abercrombie do?
"Brix will be shat by your neighbors." - schwebel
(61mm)652cc 1979 cb650

Offline paulages

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Re: Heavy Duty rods for the cb650!!!
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2009, 03:23:31 PM »
Quote from: Soos on April 02, 2009, 06:54:36 PM
Yup, the domes are quite a bit taller on the 650's pistons, the stroke is 55.8mm and the rods are roughly 5mm longer.

The 550 has a stroke of 50.6mm?
So yeah there would be problems unless you found a modern day sports bike that had pistons with a 5mm shorter deck height than the cb550.
Or a set that could be machined to the needs of the 550 using longer rods...


Not much is truly impossible with enough determination/time/money/ingenuity.....


l8r

did you actually measure the 550 rod length? because the 5mm (or so) stroke difference is in the crank. i assume you know that, but i'm just checking to make sure you didn't brain fart.... i also remember measuring the 650 rods as longer, but don't remember for sure.
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1974 CB550 (735cc)
1976 CB550 (590cc) road racer
1973 CB750K3
1972 NORTON Commando Combat
1996 KLX650 R

Offline Soos

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Re: Heavy Duty rods for the cb650!!!
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2009, 01:17:07 AM »
That 5mm was from memory offhand....
But gimme a second, i'll doublecheck and measure the 550 rod you sent me paul.


38mm big end, 15mm pin bore, center to center 106.5mm is what I'm coming up with.
Too bad, I was actually hoping I was wrong, and they were closer....
550 rods are actually 4.5mm shorter than the 650 rods.




l8r

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Just think to yourself what would Alowishus Devander Abercrombie do?
"Brix will be shat by your neighbors." - schwebel
(61mm)652cc 1979 cb650

Offline Soos

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Re: Heavy Duty rods for the cb650!!!
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2009, 07:27:24 AM »
Well I won the GSXR 1000 rods I was bidding on...



Now the wait begins.
I might have to split the case of my "mock up" motor so I can pull the rods(or at least 2 of them) to test fit these buggers.
I don't wanna put these on the crank they will probably end up on quite yet, just in case.



That reminds me....
I need to read up on paulages polishing of the trans gears thread...


l8r
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Just think to yourself what would Alowishus Devander Abercrombie do?
"Brix will be shat by your neighbors." - schwebel
(61mm)652cc 1979 cb650

Offline Soos

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Re: Heavy Duty rods for the cb650!!!
« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2009, 06:57:27 AM »
Quote from: ttr400 on April 01, 2009, 05:03:37 AM
Interesting, just checked my specs on the GSXR 1000 rods.

Length C to C = 111.0 +-0.1 mm
Big end Dia 38.0mm x 20mm thick
Small end Dia 15.0mm x 16mm thick
Weight = 343g +- 15g
Part code: 12160-41G00

Kevin


I finally got my rods in my grimy hands!!
The gsxr 1000 rods I have weigh:
2 @ 350 grams
1 @ 349 grams
1 @ 351 grams.
Those weights are for the rods without bearings.


I also did a end weight check as well.
I set up a 14mm pin and slid the 15mm pinbore over it, and weighed the big ends, and they all were within 2 grams, same when using the big end as the pivot.
Nice looking rods overall.


The cb650 rod I weighed came in at 311 grams.


So thats 39 grams heavier for each rod!
156 grams total... 5.5 ounces.
Not that much of a difference, but at 10k rpm it might add up quite a bit.




Anyways, they are less than 0.001 off from what the cb650 bores are center to center!!!

I did find that the cb650 shell bearings will not work with these rods, ad the tang cutouts in the big end between the 2 are not in the same locations.
But with the GSXR 1000 bearings being quite a bit cheaper and available, no problem there IMO.


l8r



OH yeah..... I noticed the rods are 16mm wide  at the 15mm pin bore.
The cb650 rod is 20 mm wide where the 15mm pin bore is.
I figure if these rods pushed 72(?)mm pistons in a bike redlining at what 14,000 rpm?
they should be just fine pushing the 66mm pistons I got without a hitch.


l8r
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-=≡ Soos ≡=-
Just think to yourself what would Alowishus Devander Abercrombie do?
"Brix will be shat by your neighbors." - schwebel
(61mm)652cc 1979 cb650

Offline kayaker43

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Re: Heavy Duty rods for the cb650!!!
« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2009, 04:02:59 PM »
Wow, almost 40 grams heavier, that seems like a lot to me. I would only consider it for a really big bore motor since I haven't seen a problem with stock rods even in race motors. Can you post pics, are there any places for obvious metal removal? A lot of times you can trim a lot from around the bolt bosses without affecting strength.

I have a set of the aluminum Yoshimura "Super Rods" for the 550, I'll have to weigh them when I get home next month.
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Offline kayaker43

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Re: Heavy Duty rods for the cb650!!!
« Reply #32 on: April 15, 2009, 04:09:53 PM »
Oh yeah, the narrow pin bearings bug me too. How do they get away with that, are todays oils that much better, is the pin a lot harder? Maybe we can use the GSXR pin too and just shorten it? I have a set of Yosh piston pins and they're taper bored from each end and super thin. I always wondered if they were just lightened stock parts, or better metal too?
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Offline Soos

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Re: Heavy Duty rods for the cb650!!!
« Reply #33 on: April 15, 2009, 05:21:25 PM »
I was thinking of either getting the pins from the GSXR(too bad i didn't get any with my rods :( ) or getting a set made of tool steel.

APE makes tool steel pins that look tempting, I'm sure they offer something that is the length that will work.
If I have to get longer ones, I can always cut them down to the length I need.


And as far as the pin bore being a narrower width, I think the material the rods are made out of is definitely better than what the cb650 rods are made out of.
From what I have read in '05 suzuki went with better material for their rods.
They are even shot peened from the factory.




l8r
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-=≡ Soos ≡=-
Just think to yourself what would Alowishus Devander Abercrombie do?
"Brix will be shat by your neighbors." - schwebel
(61mm)652cc 1979 cb650

Offline tourmax

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Re: Heavy Duty rods for the cb650!!!
« Reply #34 on: May 09, 2022, 09:48:39 AM »
dropping a marker so I can more easily find this thread at a later date.
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1989 FJ1200, 1983 Yamaha Venture (Vmax conversion), 1985 VF 750F Interceptor, 1982 CB650SC, 1988 Corvette convertible (Z52), 1983 Mustang GT, 2009 Mini Cooper Clubman.Couple more lying around but this is long enough already!

Offline fizzlebottom

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Re: Heavy Duty rods for the cb650!!!
« Reply #35 on: May 09, 2022, 10:28:58 AM »
Need to keep us posted for sure. Pretty much all sources for CB650 crank bearings have dried up, so this could be the solution when time comes for a bottom end rebuild. Its a lot to have to replace rods too if only bearings are needed, but until someone fires up a replacement assembly line for all 4 original sizes, a cobbled together bottom end is what we'll have to use.

Great detective work so far!
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Offline ThePwninator

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Re: Heavy Duty rods for the cb650!!!
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2022, 10:17:51 PM »
Sign me up for a reliable source for CB650 bearings!  :D

I have a stock '82 CB650 case open right now if you want some measurements taken
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